£2 Price Cap on fares in England - Now extended beyond October 2023

[markymark2000]

There's been no advertisement of the £2 bus fare: The only reason I, as a regular user of public transport, became aware of it was because I had to get home from Manchester to Macclesfield on a strike day with no trains running, and wondered why each of the three legs of the journey home (by bus) cost the same very reasonable amount.

The only thing depriving the railway of income is itself, while the bus industry has done nothing to advertise a potential advantage.

To be fair, this is because Manchester is within the TFGM £2 fare which I believe has been promoted well in the area.

Not sure of the route that you took though so can't expand on the rest. If you can tell us the route though, we could maybe work out why it's not promoted.



A trip out today transpires that Arriva Cymru hasn't set up the ticket machines properly for the £2 fare cap. I witnessed at least 4 people boarding Sapphire 1 who got charged normal fares. I heard someone even charged £5.90 for a return rather than told about the £2 fare cap for singles. Absolutely appalling claiming to be part of the scheme but not properly selling those tickets to passengers. Everywhere else, the £2 fare isn't hidden yet Arriva, it's only available if you ask and if the driver knows where to find it in the machine (A relative of mine had an issue too and it was in another menu, not on the main ticket buying page on Ticketer).

 

[RT4038]

A trip out today transpires that Arriva Cymru hasn't set up the ticket machines properly for the £2 fare cap. I witnessed at least 4 people boarding Sapphire 1 who got charged normal fares. I heard someone even charged £5.90 for a return rather than told about the £2 fare cap for singles. Absolutely appalling claiming to be part of the scheme but not properly selling those tickets to passengers. Everywhere else, the £2 fare isn't hidden yet Arriva, it's only available if you ask and if the driver knows where to find it in the machine (A relative of mine had an issue too and it was in another menu, not on the main ticket buying page on Ticketer).

Don't forget that the £2 fare cap is only in England, and this is a cross boundary route.

 

[markymark2000]

Don't forget that the £2 fare cap is only in England, and this is a cross boundary route.

It applies to anyone boarding or alighting in England. It's completely valid on cross border services. It's just not valid for journeys starting AND finishing in Wales

 

[bunty0657]

It applies to anyone boarding or alighting in England. It's completely valid on cross border services. It's just not valid for journeys starting AND finishing in Wales

This is incorrect. Direct quote from the scheme terms and conditions below:

Eligible Services and Revenue Baselining
9. For cross-border services, only journeys that begin in England will be eligible for Grant funding.

It's always helpful to have facts rather than opinion when lambasting bus companies for "not properly selling tickets".

 

[RT4038]

This is incorrect. Direct quote from the scheme terms and conditions below:

It's always helpful to have facts rather than opinion when lambasting bus companies for "not properly selling tickets".

I expect setting up the ticket machine to charge a different fare depending on the direction of travel is difficult if not impossible, which explains why the £2 fare is on a different menu on this route. Likewise it cannot really be expected for drivers to be calculating whether £2 one way and normal fare back is cheaper than the return, so if a passenger asks for the return that is what they get. Absolutely appalling is probably a little wide of the mark.

 

[geoffk]

There's been no advertisement of the £2 bus fare: The only reason I, as a regular user of public transport, became aware of it was because I had to get home from Manchester to Macclesfield on a strike day with no trains running, and wondered why each of the three legs of the journey home (by bus) cost the same very reasonable amount.

The only thing depriving the railway of income is itself, while the bus industry has done nothing to advertise a potential advantage.

Stagecoach buses in Devon promote the £2 fare on a large poster between the decks.

 

[markymark2000]

This is incorrect. Direct quote from the scheme terms and conditions below:

It's always helpful to have facts rather than opinion when lambasting bus companies for "not properly selling tickets".

All pax were boarding in England anyway and even singles were sold at £2.10 or more so tickets were still being sold incorrectly. Someone was charged £5.90 for a return fare WHOLELY WITHIN ENGLAND as well so that is £1.90 extra spent on bus fare needlessly.

Absolutely appalling is probably a little wide of the mark

No, still valid. It should be set up appropriately and drivers trained to issue these £2 fares accordingly rather than standard farss if it is so the case that the £2 fare must be hidden.



As for validity, Stagecoch South Wales are promoting it for both ways and I have a £2 ticket from Brecon to Hereford so it's strange that it's only being done one way yet companies are willingly expanding the scheme and getting nothing back for it. Especially Stagecoach, given how money grabbing they have become in the past year.

https://twitter.com/StagecoachWales/status/1628391943041327105?t=Lyst2cq9UPb5yjEzXUb0kw&s=19

Customers travelling on services T14 & X3 getting on and off stops within England will pay £2 for an adult single ticket!

 

[bunty0657]

I expect setting up the ticket machine to charge a different fare depending on the direction of travel is difficult if not impossible, which explains why the £2 fare is on a different menu on this route. Likewise it cannot really be expected for drivers to be calculating whether £2 one way and normal fare back is cheaper than the return, so if a passenger asks for the return that is what they get. Absolutely appalling is probably a little wide of the mark.

Quite likely that's the case, although assuming Arriva Cymru use Ticketer machines, I'd not have thought that configuring them to dispense a £2 ticket in one direction only was impossible, should the operator require it. Those machines have a lot of other clever functionality. Had it been known from the outset that the scheme would last for six months rather than three, there may have been more impetus to deliver that.

 

[markymark2000]

Ok, for arguements sake the machine can't be set up for it to automatically set the ticket, why isn't it therefore being done as a special ticket on page 1 so that the driver can easily access it? This is something which can be configured in certain ways so that it's not shown for invalid services etc and I believe it can even be set up to change the layout for fare stages so that invalid tickets are hidden.

 

[Simon75]

I expect setting up the ticket machine to charge a different fare depending on the direction of travel is difficult if not impossible, which explains why the £2 fare is on a different menu on this route. Likewise it cannot really be expected for drivers to be calculating whether £2 one way and normal fare back is cheaper than the return, so if a passenger asks for the return that is what they get. Absolutely appalling is probably a little wide of the mark.

With Ticketer, wouldn't it go by GPS ?

 

[londonbridge]

This would not have been possible in the time available. Hence why it is voluntary.

I’m obviously missing something here, what “time available”? What’s wrong with “you may not charge more than £2 from <starting date of scheme>”?

 

[Deerfold]

I’m obviously missing something here, what “time available”? What’s wrong with “you may not charge more than £2 from <starting date of scheme>”?

If it's going to be compulsory you're effectively having the government buying something at a price they set. You'd expect something like that to go through parliament with quite a bit of debate unless you're in an authoritarian state - unless they're going to fund the difference between £2 and whatever the normal fare is (which the current scheme isn't doing).

 

[johncrossley]

I’m obviously missing something here, what “time available”? What’s wrong with “you may not charge more than £2 from <starting date of scheme>”?

I presume making it compulsory means Parliamentary time is required. Regardless, it does seem unsatisfactory, to say the least.

 

[RT4038]

I presume making it compulsory means Parliamentary time is required. Regardless, it does seem unsatisfactory, to say the least.

Not necessarily - it probably could have been done through the existing legislation on concessionary fares. However varying schemes require consultation, notice periods and quite likely appeals on re-imbursement mechanisms. Not as long as getting legislation changed, but certainly longer than the government wanted to take. So the compromise was a voluntary scheme, with the reimbursement on a take it or leave it basis; no doubt the big groups were cajoled/bribed/threatened and most other operators joined in. Some felt the Govt. reimbursement was not enough and declined.

If it's going to be compulsory you're effectively having the government buying something at a price they set. You'd expect something like that to go through parliament with quite a bit of debate unless you're in an authoritarian state - unless they're going to fund the difference between £2 and whatever the normal fare is (which the current scheme isn't doing).

Quite.

 

[Man of Kent]

I expect setting up the ticket machine to charge a different fare depending on the direction of travel is difficult if not impossible, which explains why the £2 fare is on a different menu on this route. Likewise it cannot really be expected for drivers to be calculating whether £2 one way and normal fare back is cheaper than the return, so if a passenger asks for the return that is what they get. Absolutely appalling is probably a little wide of the mark.

It's very easy to have different fares in each direction. A separate fareset for each direction, with a unique service identifier (certainly possible with both Ticketer and Vix). Some operators already do this for peak and off-peak fares (or commercial and tendered work where conditions differ), but it does require the driver to choose the correct fareset.

Anecdotally I hear that some drivers sometimes don't bother trying to sell cheaper singles in place of returns because of the reactions of some customers who don't wish to have a conversation about what's the best ticket to buy. Possibly had investment been made in tap-in tap-out ticketing it would be significantly easier to offer a capped fare to everybody, but again it would not have met the timescales the government wished to achieve.

 

[dgl]

Even in First Wessex land we are getting tap on/off ticketing so it can't be that difficult to implement, probably helps that it's supported by Ticketr which most operators seem to use now.

 

[johntea]

I travel from West Yorkshire to Harrogate at the moment and combine a £4.50 West Yorkshire day ticket with a £5.00 (actually £4.00 if a buy a bundle of 10) Harrogate day ticket

Turns out this is a bit of a pain for the 36 service drivers (Leeds > Harrogate or vice versa) as I have to scan one ticket, then they have to manually set their ticket machine to the other 'zone' so I can scan in my other ticket and then set it back again

A shame there isn't currently a way to combine both tickets into one ticket

 

[Falcon1200]

Yesterday, en route from Scotland to Oxford, thanks to the £2 price cap I took a route I have never used before, train to Milton Keynes and Stagecoach X5 to Oxford. An interesting journey, albeit slow (nearly 90 minutes!). East/West Rail will of course make that an easier if more expensive journey, but at least the price cap is encouraging more bus usage.

 

[zero]

I travel from West Yorkshire to Harrogate at the moment and combine a £4.50 West Yorkshire day ticket with a £5.00 (actually £4.00 if a buy a bundle of 10) Harrogate day ticket

Turns out this is a bit of a pain for the 36 service drivers (Leeds > Harrogate or vice versa) as I have to scan one ticket, then they have to manually set their ticket machine to the other 'zone' so I can scan in my other ticket and then set it back again

A shame there isn't currently a way to combine both tickets into one ticket

I suppose the alternative is to ask you to come back to the front and scan the second ticket once the bus travels to the right place. But is scanning tickets really required or could they just manually accept you? (I haven't been on buses much since covid and so these day tickets having QR codes is a bit new to me, though perhaps they were in use before covid too - but I live in London)

Yesterday, en route from Scotland to Oxford, thanks to the £2 price cap I took a route I have never used before, train to Milton Keynes and Stagecoach X5 to Oxford. An interesting journey, albeit slow (nearly 90 minutes!). East/West Rail will of course make that an easier if more expensive journey, but at least the price cap is encouraging more bus usage.

The WCML replacement buses are poorly timed. Last weekend I went from Glasgow to Liverpool. Trains ended at Lancaster.

Rather than scheduling buses at Lancaster to coincide with train arrivals, everyone for Preston had to wait for at least 40 minutes while the driver had his scheduled break (this pattern repeated hourly), some people had to wait 1h 40m or maybe even 2h 40m because for some reason they were only expecting 40 passengers an hour to come off an 11-coach train, ok there were also RRBs (rail replacement buses) to Manchester which were meant to stop at Preston too, but the Preston stops on these were cancelled because for some reason only minibuses with 25 seats were available and passengers for Manchester had to wait up to 2 hours as well.

At Preston there was another 40+ minute scheduled wait for the next RRB to either Wigan or Warrington from where trains were operating. However I caught the Stagecoach X2 for £2 instead which was faster than the railway's itinerary and also came with a tour through Southport and the nice suburbs north of Liverpool.

There was also bus 40 from Lancaster to Preston for £2, but I didn't want to walk to Lancaster bus station with a heavy backpack and risk losing my place in the RRB queue, and it doesn't connect with the X2 (but it would have because the X2 seems to be delayed departing yet arrive in Liverpool at the scheduled time).

 

[SouthEastBuses]

This is incorrect. Direct quote from the scheme terms and conditions below:

It's always helpful to have facts rather than opinion when lambasting bus companies for "not properly selling tickets".

This reminds me. Next weekend I plan on riding Stagecoach South Wales route X3. It's a cross border route starting in Hereford and finishing in Cardiff, and goes via Abergavenney, Pontypool and Cwmbran. I will be doing the whole route, boarding in Hereford and getting off in Cardiff. So does this mean I will be able to only pay £2, or standard price?

 

[markymark2000]

This reminds me. Next weekend I plan on riding Stagecoach South Wales route X3. It's a cross border route starting in Hereford and finishing in Cardiff, and goes via Abergavenney, Pontypool and Cwmbran. I will be doing the whole route, boarding in Hereford and getting off in Cardiff. So does this mean I will be able to only pay £2, or standard price?

Yes, £2 fare applies

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Yes, £2 fare applies

Amazing

 

[Man of Kent]

Amazing

But £8.70 in the other direction!

 

[Dai Corner]

But £8.70 in the other direction!

£8.70 will get you from Hereford to Cardiff and back the same day, as well as as much travel on Stagecoach South Wales services as you can manage. Another 30p extends this to most operators in south east Wales.

Link to ticket guide.

Day Bus Tickets and Prices for Cardiff

Buy Bus Tickets for Cardiff Online Today! Find All The Latest Day Bus Ticket Information for Cardiff at Stagecoach Online Today

www.stagecoachbus.com

 

[markymark2000]

But £8.70 in the other direction!

No, Stagecoach are doing the £2 fare both ways for some reason. I did it on the T14 from Brecon to Hereford.

 

[py_megapixel]

No, Stagecoach are doing the £2 fare both ways for some reason. I did it on the T14 from Brecon to Hereford.

"some reason" perhaps being that a journey being more than four times more expensive in one direction than another is blatantly silly...

 

[Man of Kent]

No, Stagecoach are doing the £2 fare both ways for some reason. I did it on the T14 from Brecon to Hereford.

Not according to the Fare Finder on their website, for the journey concerned from Cardiff to Hereford, which clearly showed up as £2 in the other direction.

 

[markymark2000]

Not according to the Fare Finder on their website, for the journey concerned from Cardiff to Hereford, which clearly showed up as £2 in the other direction.

That is because of how the X3 is inputted into Stagecoach' website. If you look, the journey says that you have to change buses in Abergavenny meaning that the journey planner thinks it's not a through service and as such is working out the fare of 2 singles.

 

[Man of Kent]

That is because of how the X3 is inputted into Stagecoach' website. If you look, the journey says that you have to change buses in Abergavenny meaning that the journey planner thinks it's not a through service and as such is working out the fare of 2 singles.

This is wrong. Otherwise it wouldn't give a £2 fare to Cardiff, it would only offer it to Abergavenny. And split registration through fares work quite happily in places I am familiar with, such as Stagecoach South East.

 

[markymark2000]

This is wrong. Otherwise it wouldn't give a £2 fare to Cardiff, it would only offer it to Abergavenny. And split registration through fares work quite happily in places I am familiar with, such as Stagecoach South East.

Go into the journey planner and it shows you. Hereford to Cardiff through journey, no changes. Cardiff to Hereford, it shows you change buses in Abergavenny between an X3 and X3.

If it was set up correctly, it would show the fare.