Avanti West Coast Rolling Stock Updates

[py_megapixel]

Re. the coach lettering confusion...

There was I, just thinking U stood for "unreserved"!

 

[Halish Railway]

Coach G on 390141 seems to have a defective PA - I can here the announcements from other coaches, but not this one.

Also the window blinds on this set are extremely stiff, similar to what was reported upthread - Very little rattling though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Coach G on 390141 seems to have a defective PA - I can here the announcements from other coaches, but not this one.

Also the window blinds on this set are extremely stiff, similar to what was reported upthread - Very little rattling though.

I wonder if a modification has been done to the blinds to prevent rattling, but that modification makes them stiff and not go all the way up? I'm not a fan of the latter, the windows are small enough to begin with without taking a 2" strip off the top.

 

[Halish Railway]

I wonder if a modification has been done to the blinds to prevent rattling, but that modification makes them stiff and not go all the way up? I'm not a fan of the latter, the windows are small enough to begin with without taking a 2" strip off the top.

It did feel like there wasn’t any room for side to side movement, the cause of the rattling - I did manage to get the blind fully up with some elbow grease, so good luck to whoever wants to pull the blind down.

 

[qantas330]

Which set is now in for refurb as 151 is out and in service? Thanks

 

[Triumph]

390118

 

[qantas330]

390118

Thanks for the info.

 

[Furrball]

First trip on a refurbished set today

Even managed to get a good value Searfrog upgrade

I like how they have managed to destroy the ambience in coaches H and J by fitting fridges that make so much noise it sounds like the carriage aircon is running at full pelt!

I certainly do not remember the old ones being this noisy

 

[43102EMR]

First trip on a refurbished set today

Even managed to get a good value Searfrog upgrade

I like how they have managed to destroy the ambience in coaches H and J by fitting fridges that make so much noise it sounds like the carriage aircon is running at full pelt!

I certainly do not remember the old ones being this noisy

I was on a 9 car (unrefurbished) set the other day, A/C was incredibly noisy.

 

[Huntergreed]

I just had an interesting chat with a TM and member of catering staff on my Avanti service (refurbished 390).

They told me that the water bottle refill point was trialed but has been planned/installed incorrectly and poses a legionella risk due to a flaw in the design/installation and there’s no plan to actually introduce this onto services at present.

Interesting if true, but can anyone offer any confirmation into the accuracy of this?

Also - which set is in now?

 

[hapt1n]

There is nothing wrong with the installation but there are some background concerns about the routine maintenance to ensure the risk of legionella is managed. All trains are currently leaving refurbishment with a 'coming soon' sticker.

Refurbishment of 390118 should be complete by this Friday,

 

[william.martin]

. All trains are currently leaving refurbishment with a 'coming soon' sticker.

What is coming soon?

 

[Speed43125]

What is coming soon?

Possibly the water refill point as @Huntergreed was talking about above?

 

[hapt1n]

What is coming soon?

The water bottle refill station.

First trip on a refurbished set today

Even managed to get a good value Searfrog upgrade

I like how they have managed to destroy the ambience in coaches H and J by fitting fridges that make so much noise it sounds like the carriage aircon is running at full pelt!

I certainly do not remember the old ones being this noisy

The small bottle fridges are the original ones, they are just refitted once the interior has been refurbished.

 

[Tester]

The small bottle fridges are the original ones, they are just refitted once the interior has been refurbished.

The new ones have clear doors and I think a black frame, whereas the old looked stainless steel all over, so this seems unlikely.

 

[dereksingh291]

How many years have the class 390s got left to run now that they’ve been in service for 20 years and having a refurbishment?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

How many years have the class 390s got left to run now that they’ve been in service for 20 years and having a refurbishment?

From my perspective, loads
I don't know how well the mechanics are holding up but I think they've got a lot of time left
Replacing the tilt is something that appears to be difficult (I'm looking at you 80Xs) so I doubt they'll purposefully slow the line down any time soon (if they get ETCS they can go 140).

 

[Bletchleyite]

How many years have the class 390s got left to run now that they’ve been in service for 20 years and having a refurbishment?

I would expect them to remain in service now until HS2 takes most fast services off the WCML.

Once that's happened I can see two possibilities, one that the HS2 franchisee is the same as the legacy WCML fast one and they move to operating at 110 using HS2 classic compatible 200m units, the other than they're merged with what is now WMT and new stock is ordered for both.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I would expect them to remain in service now until HS2 takes most fast services off the WCML.

I think it may remove the fastest of them, but I still think plenty a 390 will still be wanted for some services (e.g. the ones that call at Milton Keynes)
I'd prefer to keep the WCML at 125 and not practically limit it to 110.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it may remove the fastest of them, but I still think plenty a 390 will still be wanted for some services (e.g. the ones that call at Milton Keynes)
I'd prefer to keep the WCML at 125 and not practically limit it to 110.

They'll be 40+ years old by then and knackered. So I don't think we can really usefully speculate on what will replace them (and this isn't a speculative thread anyway), but I think we can be pretty sure they will be replaced.

 

[hapt1n]

The new ones have clear doors and I think a black frame, whereas the old looked stainless steel all over, so this seems unlikely.

Many of the interior surfaces are wrapped in new vinyl during the refurbishment, the toilet cubicles being a good example. Angel won't pay for new fridges when they can be given a relatively low cost face lift with a vinyl wrap.

From my perspective, loads
I don't know how well the mechanics are holding up but I think they've got a lot of time left
Replacing the tilt is something that appears to be difficult (I'm looking at you 80Xs) so I doubt they'll purposefully slow the line down any time soon (if they get ETCS they can go 140).

As the refurbishment is considered mid life you could argue another 20 years at least. The mechanics that get most wear and tear are routinely replaced anyway. Another bogie H exam is imminent for the fleet.

 

[qantas330]

There is nothing wrong with the installation but there are some background concerns about the routine maintenance to ensure the risk of legionella is managed. All trains are currently leaving refurbishment with a 'coming soon' sticker.

Refurbishment of 390118 should be complete by this Friday,

Do we know whats next in for the refurb? Cheers

 

[Halish Railway]

I think it may remove the fastest of them, but I still think plenty a 390 will still be wanted for some services (e.g. the ones that call at Milton Keynes)
I'd prefer to keep the WCML at 125 and not practically limit it to 110.

Some 125mph non-tilt sections will be added on various stretches of the WCML where the radius of curves permit in anticipation of Avanti's Class 805 and 807s entering service. There certainly was a plan to introduce some 125mph non-tilt sections north of Preston which could be used by TPE's Class 397s, but that all seems to have gone quiet.

 

[OrangeJuice]

Some 125mph non-tilt sections will be added on various stretches of the WCML where the radius of curves permit in anticipation of Avanti's Class 805 and 807s entering service. There certainly was a plan to introduce some 125mph non-tilt sections north of Preston which could be used by TPE's Class 397s, but that all seems to have gone quiet.

Was that Norther WCML upgrade also for the eventual HS2 trains? If so it could be a while in planning and completion

 

[Halish Railway]

Was that Norther WCML upgrade also for the eventual HS2 trains? If so it could be a while in planning and completion

I think some preliminary work was done before the pandemic, ISTR that there were some test runs using a Class 397 being driven at the hypothetical new linespeeds.

Regarding the Pendolino's longevity, I'm not convinced that there are enough Class 807s to operate the aspired post-HS2 phase 1 services, although given that HS2 (from Euston at least) probably won't be ready until well into the 2030s, by which point the Pendolinos will be 30 years old, I can envisage them being phased out when HS2 opens.

These extensive refurbishments seem like a stopgap until the delayed HS2 opens, increasing capacity by increasing the ratio of standard class seating and fitting new seats to provide more legroom. Had HS2 opened in 2026 when it was originally expected, then the Pendolinos would have most likely undergone just a cosmetic refurbishment like the Voyagers.

 

[AJDesiro]

I think some preliminary work was done before the pandemic, ISTR that there were some test runs using a Class 397 being driven at the hypothetical new linespeeds.

Regarding the Pendolino's longevity, I'm not convinced that there are enough Class 807s to operate the aspired post-HS2 phase 1 services, although given that HS2 (from Euston at least) probably won't be ready until well into the 2030s, by which point the Pendolinos will be 30 years old, I can envisage them being phased out when HS2 opens.

These extensive refurbishments seem like a stopgap until the delayed HS2 opens, increasing capacity by increasing the ratio of standard class seating and fitting new seats to provide more legroom. Had HS2 opened in 2026 when it was originally expected, then the Pendolinos would have most likely undergone just a cosmetic refurbishment like the Voyagers.

IIRC the pendolino refurbishment was always planned to include new seats (imo the most major thing that separates the two refurbishments apart), even before the delays of HS2 became more apparent, you can find the initial promises on this archived west coast partnership webpage.

 

[DelW]

I will say however, now having done a few more journies on the refurbs, the seats arent all that bad. They do feel hard when you first sit down vs the old seats, but after 3 hours straight on them my backside hasn't complained once yet.

Having made my first trip on a refurbished set yesterday, I'd agree with that. When I arrived back at Euston I realised that I hadn't spent the last part of the journey wriggling around trying to get comfortable. On the outbound journey on the original seats, I was doing that for most of the last hour.
The height of the seats and their width at headrest level does make the coach feel less spacious though, as you can't see down it. That seems to be the case with a lot of new or reseated trains though.

 

[qantas330]

390112 now at Widnes for refurb

 

[Energy]

I think it may remove the fastest of them, but I still think plenty a 390 will still be wanted for some services (e.g. the ones that call at Milton Keynes)
I'd prefer to keep the WCML at 125 and not practically limit it to 110.

They'll be 40+ years old by then and knackered. So I don't think we can really usefully speculate on what will replace them (and this isn't a speculative thread anyway), but I think we can be pretty sure they will be replaced.

The tilt makes the 390s heavy and comparatively expensive to operate. I can currently be justified by the increase in speed but once HS2 is open you can expect the replacement to be normal stock.

Some 125mph non-tilt sections will be added on various stretches of the WCML where the radius of curves permit in anticipation of Avanti's Class 805 and 807s entering service. There certainly was a plan to introduce some 125mph non-tilt sections north of Preston which could be used by TPE's Class 397s, but that all seems to have gone quiet.

There were plans but not much visible has happened, iirc the paths for the second Liverpool per hour (807) are for 110mph. A pendolino can outperform the 80x timings on it but its not that much.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's not unlikely residual WCML IC would use 200m HS2 units for commonality. Would also provide for flexibility in the event of engineering work or incidents on HS2.