YourMum666
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Would IETs make sense as a suitable replacement to the ageing HST stock on Cross Country ?
Would IETs make sense as a suitable replacement to the ageing HST stock on Cross Country ?
Would IETs make sense as a suitable replacement to the ageing HST stock on Cross Country ?
I believe that the replacement for the XC HST fleet, is either going to be more use of the existing 220/221 fleet or the adding of the Advanti West Coast 221 fleet to XC.I don’t think HSTs come into it as they are being withdrawn anyway. IETs would obviously be a good thing on any of the XC Voyager operated routes to reduce diesel use under the wires. Trouble is the 220/221 fleet is only mid-life with no obvious other home to go to yet apart from Inter7City routes in Scotland. Even then however 222s are shortly to be freed up too.
surely the 222s could be cascaded to SWR and Chiltern on diesel routesI don’t think HSTs come into it as they are being withdrawn anyway. IETs would obviously be a good thing on any of the XC Voyager operated routes to reduce diesel use under the wires. Trouble is the 220/221 fleet is only mid-life with no obvious other home to go to yet apart from Inter7City routes in Scotland. Even then however 222s are shortly to be freed up too.
Depends on the formations. Chiltern for example can use small multiple sets and double up etc. You can not tinker with 222s in the same way.surely the 222s could be cascaded to SWR and Chiltern on diesel routes
surely the 222s could be cascaded to SWR
Would IETs make sense as a suitable replacement to the ageing HST stock on Cross Country ?
That's an option maybe for Waterloo-Exeter or medium distance Chiltern but depends how it affects overall seating capacity.surely the 222s could be cascaded to SWR and Chiltern on diesel routes
Would IETs make sense as a suitable replacement to the ageing HST stock on Cross Country ?
This happened with the now electric Manchester/Liverpool - Scotland services, now accepted.
It’s complete overkill to use such 125 mph stock on 90 mph routes with frequent stops. This has been pointed out time and again, and the same point also applies to XC’s secondary midlands routes, those originally transferred from Central trains in 2007.That's an option maybe for Waterloo-Exeter or medium distance Chiltern but depends how it affects overall seating capacity.
Agreed. Would be a big improvement on XC. Could build some new 9 car sets for GWR and GWR give some 5s to XC. Sadly XC never seems to feature in Dft spending despite being a lifeline for so many areas and journies.Even a 5-car fleet of IEP would be a huge improvement over the status quo.
A 5-car Cl802 manages 327 seats which isnt that far off the capacity of a double Cl220 formation
Uniform fleet of 5-cars would remove the need for much of the doubling up and allow the Voyagers to go for razorblades.
due to what reasons did XC not benefit from the IEP?The Intercity Express Programme originally encompassed Cross Country but it was quietly dropped and confined to East Coast and GWR.
Even a 5-car fleet of IEP would be a huge improvement over the status quo.
A 5-car Cl802 manages 327 seats which isnt that far off the capacity of a double Cl220 formation
They could stay with XC to replace the 170s, which could then go elsewhere instead.I don’t think HSTs come into it as they are being withdrawn anyway. IETs would obviously be a good thing on any of the XC Voyager operated routes to reduce diesel use under the wires. Trouble is the 220/221 fleet is only mid-life with no obvious other home to go to yet apart from Inter7City routes in Scotland. Even then however 222s are shortly to be freed up too.
This would be very sensibleEven a 5-car fleet of IEP would be a huge improvement over the status quo.
A 5-car Cl802 manages 327 seats which isnt that far off the capacity of a double Cl220 formation
Uniform fleet of 5-cars would remove the need for much of the doubling up and allow the Voyagers to go for razorblades.
you can't replace 170s on the stansted route because it needs sprinter differentialsThey could stay with XC to replace the 170s, which could then go elsewhere instead.
More capacity. Plus those 170s could be useful elsewhere, unlike the 22x.you can't replace 170s on the stansted route because it needs sprinter differentials
and in any case, the 22x are way more expensive than the 170s, so why use them where they aren't necessary?
You could say the same for the 175s though.Trouble is the 220/221 fleet is only mid-life
That’s very interesting I never knew that.The Intercity Express Programme originally encompassed Cross Country but it was quietly dropped and confined to East Coast and GWR.
If money was available (which sadly it's not) I'd reform the Voyagers into 7 car units, scrap the surplus driving cars and order IETs to make up the shortfall in units.I don’t think HSTs come into it as they are being withdrawn anyway. IETs would obviously be a good thing on any of the XC Voyager operated routes to reduce diesel use under the wires. Trouble is the 220/221 fleet is only mid-life with no obvious other home to go to yet apart from Inter7City routes in Scotland. Even then however 222s are shortly to be freed up too.
I could see it happening if XC manages to make the case that it would be cheaper, which it could be depending on the lease costs of the 22x, as well as operating cost (primarily diesel could be much cheaper for 80x, but if you could do with less staff that would be another way of saving money)If, in spite of the chronic overcrowding on their trains, XC can't get their hands on the 22x that will be going spare, what chance do they have of getting new 80x?
Then again, before the pandemic, SWR managed to order brand new trains to replace brand new trains... so who knows?
I feel like this is short sighted, as even double 221s can be extremely busy at times, the HSTs certainly could, and 9 car of the same stock as being discussed here are always very busy between York and Edinburgh. I’d just order 9 car sets and then they could swap around with LNER and GWR’s if ever there needed to be such a scenario.Quite shocking how poor the 220's use of space is, but you're not far off right.
OK, 6-car would work then, 7 ideal, 8 overkill.
Or whatever Alstom might offer, as shared facilities with those provided for the Voyagers and also maybe any depot used by Avanti’s 390s on route might work well.If money was available (which sadly it's not) I'd reform the Voyagers into 7 car units, scrap the surplus driving cars and order IETs to make up the shortfall in units.
I could see it happening if XC manages to make the case that it would be cheaper, which it could be depending on the lease costs of the 22x, as well as operating cost (primarily diesel could be much cheaper for 80x, but if you could do with less staff that would be another way of saving money)
I feel like this is short sighted, as even double 221s can be extremely busy at times, the HSTs certainly could, and 9 car of the same stock as being discussed here are always very busy between York and Edinburgh. I’d just order 9 car sets and then they could swap around with LNER and GWR’s if ever there needed to be such a scenario.
absolutely, it would be very interesting to see the costs (both overall and per seat) and benefits of the options:You would have to consider that XC could make the same staff cost savings by reforming the voyagers into longer units.
It would be interesting to see these options quantified; of course, they're all going to cost more than 'do nothing'.