£2 Price Cap on fares in England - Now extended beyond October 2023

[Goldfish62]

From an environmental prospective the greatest benefit is getting people travelling alone out of cars and on to greener methods. A car with a family of 4 in it takes up as much space on the road as a car with just the driver in it. We need to make public transport financially attractive to people who don't have someone travelling with them.

Exactly.

Motorists are heavily subsidised through the seemingly permanent fuel duty freeze and not having to pay the full cost of road use, so it's about time bus users got a piece of the action.

 

[Dai Corner]

Exactly.

Motorists are heavily subsidised through the seemingly permanent fuel duty freeze and not having to pay the full cost of road use, so it's about time bus users got a piece of the action.

Local bus operators get fuel duty rebated don't they? Do they pay for bus shelters and bus priority schemes?

 

[Goldfish62]

Local bus operators get fuel duty rebated don't they? Do they pay for bus shelters and bus priority schemes?

If you re-read my post you'll see I was referring to bus *users*. That's what he whole £2 fare scheme is about so I'm not sure of your point.

 

[Dai Corner]

If you re-read my post you'll see I was referring to bus *users*. That's what he whole £2 fare scheme is about so I'm not sure of your point.

The advantages are reflected in fares and journey times.

 

[Mikey C]

Exactly.

Motorists are heavily subsidised through the seemingly permanent fuel duty freeze and not having to pay the full cost of road use, so it's about time bus users got a piece of the action.

The duty freeze is reducing (in real terms) the cost of fuel, but it's still heavily taxed.

 

[northwichcat]

The advantages are reflected in fares and journey times.

Bus priority schemes only exist in certain towns. In Cheshire new bus stop signs are very rare, never mind shelters. I think local authorities do charge bus operators for registration changes, which then get used as funds for maintaining the bus stops. (Exception being if the council requested the change.)

 

[Dai Corner]

Bus priority schemes only exist in certain towns. In Cheshire new bus stop signs are very rare, never mind shelters. I think local authorities do charge bus operators for registration changes, which then get used as funds for maintaining the bus stops. (Exception being if the council requested the change.)

Lots of shelters have gone up here in Newport recently. I thought registrations were made with the Traffic Commissioner, Local Transport Authorities only being statutory consultees?

Anyway, were off-topic for this thread. I'm happy to continue the discussion in a different one.

 

[ReeceD1993]

Has anyone noticed Go Ahead are advertising the 2 pound fare cap ends on the 30th June 2023?

Bluestar had announced the far cap would run until October 30th 2023 but this post got removed after a few days amd now states this is running until the 30th June 2023.

 

[RogerOut]

Is it just me or is the £2 fare cap not very well published? I’ve seen nothing on the tv advertising it, not even on the radio.
Of course regular bus users know about it, but the cap is only advertised on buses and a few posters at bus stops.

People who don’t use buses probably don’t even know about it.

I've just had a look at that. There are no adjacent sections of route with the same frequencies so clearly the split is to optimise frequencies rather than trying to fiddle the fare cap.


If it's too generous with the subsidised £2 fare cap then it would have been too generous without it. But then what's "too generous"? Why would anyone complain about public transport being cheap?

Public transport should be cheap like it is in other countries. Public transport in the UK is expensive so I welcome making fares lower.
But where I live , a 19 year old can buy a £2 fare and four of their mates can ride with them for free. All they need to tell the driver is they are under 19, whether they are or not.
My point is, this seems to generous as 19 year olds are adults.
And the government is subsidising this through.You’ll find you’re probably paying more in council tax now to subsidise public transport. And the governments money is from tax payers.
So nothing is free.

 

[ReeceD1993]

Is it just me or is the £2 fare cap not very well published? I’ve seen nothing on the tv advertising it, not even on the radio.
Of course regular bus users know about it, but the cap is only advertised on buses and a few posters at bus stops.

People who don’t use buses probably don’t even know about it.

Bluestar had published the fare cap was being extended until the end of October 2023 and now this post got removed and will now seem to only run until the June 30th 2023.

 

[RT4038]

I
And the government is subsidising this through.You’ll find you’re probably paying more in council tax now to subsidise public transport. And the governments money is from tax payers.
So nothing is free.

This English initiative is being paid for by Central Government, not through council tax.

 

[RogerOut]

This English initiative is being paid for by Central Government, not through council tax.

Ok, but tax payers are still funding it then. It’s coming from the Department of transports budget presumably.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Bluestar had published the fare cap was being extended until the end of October 2023 and now this post got removed and will now seem to only run until the June 31st 2023.

On my calendar June only has 30 days.

 

[GusB]

On my calendar June only has 30 days.

Didn't you get the memo about the extra day?

 

[ReeceD1993]

On my calendar June only has 30 days.

I meant to post 30th June 2023 do you really need to correct people?

 

[Marcus Fryer]

I meant to post 30th June 2023 do you really need to correct people?

Sorry, didn’t mean to cause offence.

 

[Deerfold]

Public transport should be cheap like it is in other countries. Public transport in the UK is expensive so I welcome making fares lower.
But where I live , a 19 year old can buy a £2 fare and four of their mates can ride with them for free. All they need to tell the driver is they are under 19, whether they are or not.
My point is, this seems to generous as 19 year olds are adults.
And the government is subsidising this through.You’ll find you’re probably paying more in council tax now to subsidise public transport. And the governments money is from tax payers.
So nothing is free.

I'm not clear about whether you want cheaper fares or not.

You say you do, but you then complain about how it's being paid for. How do you want it to be paid for?

I don't know where you live but the under 19 ticket sounds like a local initiative, so I don't know who's paying for that.

Competitively priced group tickets can attract people to buses.

Just before the pandemic 4 of us took advantage of First's local day ticket which cost £5 for 5 of us.

Team Pennine do a day ticket for 5 adults for £8 for the day.

These are both commercial tickets.

 

[Dai Corner]

Just before the pandemic 4 of us took advantage of First's local day ticket which cost £5 for 5 of us.

Team Pennine do a day ticket for 5 adults for £8 for the day.

These are both commercial tickets.

If day tickets can be offered commercially (which I take to mean without subsidy) at £1 or £1.60 per person surely a £2 single can?

What am I missing?

 

[RT4038]

If day tickets can be offered commercially (which I take to mean without subsidy) at £1 or £1.60 per person surely a £2 single can?

What am I missing?

I should imagine that the group tickets are aimed at groups that would otherwise go by car, as the sum of the individual tickets would price the bus out of the equation. Therefore the £5 or £8 is money that they would otherwise not get. Obviously there will be a risk of groups without access to a car who would have bought the individual tickets getting a cheaper ride, but that will be factored in.

No bus company can be offering the £2 fare cap on a commercial basis. National Express West Midlands sort of did (but not quite, and it was coming under increasing pressure) but this will have been blown out of the water with their latest pay settlement, and other cost rises.

 

[Typhoon]

If day tickets can be offered commercially (which I take to mean without subsidy) at £1 or £1.60 per person surely a £2 single can?

What am I missing?

I should imagine that the group tickets are aimed at groups that would otherwise go by car, as the sum of the individual tickets would price the bus out of the equation. Therefore the £5 or £8 is money that they would otherwise not get. Obviously there will be a risk of groups without access to a car who would have bought the individual tickets getting a cheaper ride, but that will be factored in.

Thanks for making that point. Team Pennine also operate over a fairly restricted area, it is not like they can be used on services like Coastliner. This can also be withdrawn or the fare increased if it is thought that they are losing money. It is little different from the strategy that supermarkets use, offering certain items at really low prices, they want you to go in the store for these goods and buy other stuff at the same time; they factor in that people like me who only buy a limited amount because I have to carry it home. If it didn't get the 'big shop' families in they wouldn't be doing it.

Edit: Better example. I have been looking on a Train Operator's website. They are offering kids-for-£2 tickets. This doesn't mean that they can afford to charge £2 for children, just that if they can get a family out of their car and onto the train they make money they wouldn't otherwise get.

Maybe there were four or five going for a fiver; next time there might be fewer, if they are used to the bus, they might still get on. Its been a while but I did some walking in Calderdale, they still seem to be advertising bus walks. If there is a group, get the bus as you don't to end up where you started. It is a question of getting people through the door. By and large fresh air doesn't pay a fare!

 

[northwichcat]

Edit: Better example. I have been looking on a Train Operator's website. They are offering kids-for-£2 tickets. This doesn't mean that they can afford to charge £2 for children, just that if they can get a family out of their car and onto the train they make money they wouldn't otherwise get.

Good point. For a transport operator it doesn't cost them less to provide a seat for a child, student or pensioner over an adult. Presumably part of the reason for cheap child fares is so public transport is normalised and the child will continue using public transport (paying full fare) when they are an adult with a full time job.

 

[Hophead]

I'm reading that Nottingham City Transport will not be continuing with the £2 cap after June, from when a new city fare of £2.80 will be applied.

Have any operators committed to continuing in the scheme? The few I've looked at still mention end of June as the expiry of the £2 fare - it may be that they've yet to update their publicity, of course.

 

[mikeg]

Reliance in north Yorkshire seems to have announced it will continue

 

[Millasan]

The £2 fare cap has helped us a lot as my daughter goes into college 4 days a week. She was paying £9.70 from Shenfield to Chelmsford since turning 18 in April but we didn't know how convenient the 351 bus was.

Any bit of saving is appreciated.

 

[Hophead]

Well, that's what comes of reading local press, rather than the operator's own website- what NCT say is "It is our intention to continue participating in the extended scheme through until October 2023, subject to agreeing acceptable reimbursement levels with the Department for Transport."

 

[Kite159]

It won't be good PR for those bus companies who decide to cease being part of the £2 fare scheme when it's going on.

Especially in the areas where there is competition, when one operator is £2 singles, the other operator is back to standard fares.

 

[Typhoon]

It won't be good PR for those bus companies who decide to cease being part of the £2 fare scheme when it's going on.

Especially in the areas where there is competition, when one operator is £2 singles, the other operator is back to standard fares.

It won't be good for drivers working for those bus companies who make such a decision. I still hear drivers explaining the scheme to passengers, who sometimes remember that they've been told about it before. What chance them remembering the June deadline? There will be passengers getting on with their two pound coins, maybe even putting them in the hopper if it is an exact fare operation, only to be told it is now £3.60, or whatever, which they won'y have because the fare was £2 last week. There will be passengers who ask for a single, because the return fare is over £4 - unless the driver quickly questions them to ascertain whether they will be coming back, they will be irate when they find they are out of pocket (and the bus probably late).

Any Forum members who are drivers for these companies might want to find a good reason for not being in work on 3rd July (any holiday leave owing?).

Such companies will need to indulge in a hell of a lot of publicity to make sure their staff don't have withstand a lot of complaints, and, maybe, abuse, particularly in areas where some companies are retaining the scheme.

In turn national government will need to publicise the end of the scheme (or any variance of it) more widely than they did its introduction. It is much much easier to start a scheme like this than to end it.

 

[HST43257]

Reliance in north Yorkshire seems to have announced it will continue

Even with the DalesBus routes? £2 York to Hawes via Leeds, Ilkley and Buckden is incredibly good value for money

 

[Deerfold]

Even with the DalesBus routes? £2 York to Hawes via Leeds, Ilkley and Buckden is incredibly good value for money

Dalesbus are advertising the £2 fares until October.

Welcome to DalesBus

Bus and train information for the Yorkshire Dales, including the Leeds-Settle-Carlisle railway line and DalesBus network.

www.dalesbus.org

Single fares cost no more than £2 per journey on most scheduled bus services in the Yorkshire Dales until 31st October 2023.

 

[ReeceD1993]

It would seem Go South Coast will end the 2 pound fare scheme at the end of June