Flight Tracking Services - Interesting Observations

[DustyBin]

This is a bit of a strange one. Why are Antalya-Moscow flights taking this odd routing? They could enter Belarusian air space much earlier, and the entire routing seems to be quite strange.

View attachment 131003

An interesting observation! This is nothing more than speculation, but could they be avoiding air defence systems in southern and western Belarus?

 

[Ostrich]

Flightradar24 is currently showing a Boeing B52 Stratofortress cruising over the Baltic and Eastern Europe. Second time this week ......

 

[DustyBin]

Flightradar24 is currently showing a Boeing B52 Stratofortress cruising over the Baltic and Eastern Europe. Second time this week ......

There have been two up regularly over the past couple of weeks.

 

[mpthomson]

There have been two up regularly over the past couple of weeks.

A lot longer than that.

 

[DustyBin]

A lot longer than that.

Yes, I meant visible on FR24 specifically.

 

[DustyBin]

I can't say that these appear regularly, unless I just miss them! This one appears to be heading for Mildenhall:



Edit: Now on the ground at Mildenhall. I'd be interested to know if this is likely to be part of a regular deployment or something more specific; as above it's not an aircraft I know much about other than it's basic purpose.

 

[ainsworth74]

I would imagine that they have fairly regular patrol routes but that are covered quite infrequently. I could well imagine that they may go for many months between covering a route.

 

[route101]

I am surprised military aircraft show up on FR24, security risk.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I am surprised military aircraft show up on FR24, security risk.

Not all of them do - it's usually the transports and training flights that show up, plus anything connected to a display or a flypast.

I'd agree it's surprising that some of the reconnaissance aircraft and tankers on active missions do show up, but in the case of the Black Sea operations it could well be a deliberate move to make it more obvious to the Russians that these are there so that they don't get shot down and cause an escalation?

 

[Bald Rick]

I am surprised military aircraft show up on FR24, security risk.

Some times they do deception operations…

 

[DustyBin]

I am surprised military aircraft show up on FR24, security risk.

Not all of them do - it's usually the transports and training flights that show up, plus anything connected to a display or a flypast.

I'd agree it's surprising that some of the reconnaissance aircraft and tankers on active missions do show up, but in the case of the Black Sea operations it could well be a deliberate move to make it more obvious to the Russians that these are there so that they don't get shot down and cause an escalation?

I’ve always presumed that it’s very deliberate; the question is what isn’t visible. The answer is, I suspect, quite a lot!

 

[chipbury]

On Tuesday I was flying from Amsterdam to Ecuador to join a ship, however after we got past Portugal the Captain annouced we had a technical problem that meant we had to return to Amsterdam. No further information was given unfortunately.
We dumped a load of fuel over the Bay of Biscay on the way back up which was interesting to see.
I got re-routed via London & Bogota before I arrived in Ecuador @18hrs late (with no luggage) - an interesting couple of days...

 

[ainsworth74]

I’ve always presumed that it’s very deliberate; the question is what isn’t visible. The answer is, I suspect, quite a lot!

Is the right answer. They're visible because they want to be. Either because what they're doing isn't particularly sensitive so it's an aid to navigation (so everyone knows where everyone else is both military and civilian) or they want people to know what they're doing as a statement of intent. See the recent B-52 flights within a few miles of Kaliningrad and along the Gulf of Finland. Those were visible because the US wanted everyone to know exactly what they were doing. Same logic applies on Marine Traffic (the water based equivalent of FR24). Warships show up on civilian systems either to make life easier for everyone or because they want everyone to know where they are as a statement.

It's a matter of a flipping a switch (or probably pressing a button or two) to turn off the transponders that allow for such things to be tracked on civilian systems.

 

[Strathclyder]

Was walking home from my local Co-op less than a half-hour ago and had to do a double take when I spotted this taking off over Faifley!



I know Emirates A380s have been to Glasgow numerous times before (and they've been multiple times this year already; I just haven't seen/heard them), but after months of seeing/hearing little else but A320s & 737s taking off over my house, this was a very welcome break to that routine. Was also one of the most tracked flights briefly (was #5 when I first loaded up Flightradar to check which A380 it was), which doesn't happen to a flight to/from Glasgow all that often!

(Oh, and the photo in the airframe/flight info sidebar was taken by a family friend. Small world lol)

 

[ainsworth74]

Keen observers may notice quite a lot of odd RAF activity over or near Norfolk at the moment. I suspect soon to head towards London

 

[Bigchris]

Keen observers may notice quite a lot of odd RAF activity over or near Norfolk at the moment. I suspect soon to head towards London

Some of the smaller aircraft are heading back in the direction they came from, smaller flypast due to the weather unfortunately.

 

[ainsworth74]

Some of the smaller aircraft are heading back in the direction they came from, smaller flypast due to the weather unfortunately.

Yes sadly helicopters and Red Arrows only

 

[Bigchris]

Yes sadly helicopters and Red Arrows only

Foreign dignitaries starting to leave from RAF Northolt already!

 

[DaleCooper]

I've noticed a lot of RCAF aircraft around the UK and a couple of their Skyhawks over the Netherlands recently, are there some joint exercises going on?

 

[PsychoMouse]

I've noticed a lot of RCAF aircraft around the UK and a couple of their Skyhawks over the Netherlands recently, are there some joint exercises going on?

Yes. Exercise Air Defender 2023. Germany led but most European air forces are participating along with 4x B-1s courtesy of the USAF currently flying out of Fairford.

The Canadian Skyhawks are not a part of this however. Those are actually civilian registered aircraft run by a company called Top Aces who specialise in combat training and suchlike for the Luftwaffe and RCAF. They mostly fly AlphaJets but they have a dozen or so Skyhawks, based out of Wittmund, Germany.

 

[DaleCooper]

Yes. Exercise Air Defender 2023. Germany led but most European air forces are participating along with 4x B-1s courtesy of the USAF currently flying out of Fairford.

The Canadian Skyhawks are not a part of this however. Those are actually civilian registered aircraft run by a company called Top Aces who specialise in combat training and suchlike fro the Luftwaffe and RCAF. They mostly flay AlphaJets but they have a dozen or so Skyhawks, based out of Wittmund, Germany.

Thank you.

 

[DustyBin]

The Canadian Skyhawks are not a part of this however. Those are actually civilian registered aircraft run by a company called Top Aces who specialise in combat training and suchlike fro the Luftwaffe and RCAF. They mostly flay AlphaJets but they have a dozen or so Skyhawks, based out of Wittmund, Germany.

The most sophisticated Skyhawks in the world apparently. They’ve come a long way since Top Gun!

 

[Strathclyder]

Heard something large taking off over Faifley from Glasgow International as I was making breakfast and I hopped onto Flightradar to see what was what. It was a TUI 787-8 headed for Newcastle. I know TUI 787s fly in/out of GLA often enough (especially in the summer), but never to Newcastle. I'll assume that this is a ferry flight of some kind, as a 787 on such a short flight in passenger service is sledgehammer cracking nuts-level stuff, even in the summer.

 

[DustyBin]

Heard something large taking off over Faifley from Glasgow International as I was making breakfast and I hopped onto Flightradar to see what was what. It was a TUI 787-8 headed for Newcastle. I know TUI 787s fly in/out of GLA often enough (especially in the summer), but never to Newcastle. I'll assume that this is a ferry flight of some kind, as a 787 on such a short flight in passenger service is sledgehammer cracking nuts-level stuff, even in the summer.

View attachment 137178

Yes I would presume so.

I actually saw it take off from Newcastle this morning en route to Cancun!

Edit:

Here it is this morning making the short return flight from Newcastle to Glasgow:

 

[PsychoMouse]

Those short Tui 787 repositioning flights are very very common. They operate sporadic flights to Mexico and the Caribbean from quite a few UK airports.

 

[Bald Rick]

on the subject of positioning moves, an Virgin A350 (G-VBOB) went over St Albans early this morning at about 5000ft, en route from Heathrow to Manchester.

 

[yoyothehobo]

For those tracking the Hercules C-130 retirement flight it is currently on as OMEN1

 

[BananaRepublic]

I am surprised military aircraft show up on FR24, security risk.

Not all of them do - it's usually the transports and training flights that show up, plus anything connected to a display or a flypast.

I'd agree it's surprising that some of the reconnaissance aircraft and tankers on active missions do show up, but in the case of the Black Sea operations it could well be a deliberate move to make it more obvious to the Russians that these are there so that they don't get shot down and cause an escalation?

I’ve always presumed that it’s very deliberate; the question is what isn’t visible. The answer is, I suspect, quite a lot!

Regarding military aircraft.
Firstly you have to understand what FR24 is and how the website obtains its information.
It is not a radar display.
The information is obtained from aircraft carrying certain mandated transponder types, which hobbyist’s can pick up on their receivers and sent (via the internet) to the FR24 site.
There are still lots of transponders in use, that do not need to comply with those civilian regulations.
Also, where enthusiast receiver coverage is limited, the number of aircraft shown will be limited, or non-existent.

Actual, civil radar displays, show all military aircraft operating.
For example, in the UK and the rest of Europe, civil air traffic controllers will see everything flying within radar coverage.
Military aircraft not showing on FR24 will be perfectly visible to civil ATC.

Is the right answer. They're visible because they want to be. Either because what they're doing isn't particularly sensitive so it's an aid to navigation (so everyone knows where everyone else is both military and civilian) or they want people to know what they're doing as a statement of intent. See the recent B-52 flights within a few miles of Kaliningrad and along the Gulf of Finland. Those were visible because the US wanted everyone to know exactly what they were doing. Same logic applies on Marine Traffic (the water based equivalent of FR24). Warships show up on civilian systems either to make life easier for everyone or because they want everyone to know where they are as a statement.

It's a matter of a flipping a switch (or probably pressing a button or two) to turn off the transponders that allow for such things to be tracked on civilian systems.

The only time civil systems will not display military radar tracks, is either when they are flying at very low level, below radar coverage in a particular area, or on active live combat operations, where they’ll go dark to civil secondary radar and similar.
Primary radar returns can still be seen, unless the aircraft has stealth characteristic, employing electronic countermeasure, or again, flying below radar.
In combat situations, primary radars would be electronically jammed.

 

[DustyBin]

Regarding military aircraft.
Firstly you have to understand what FR24 is and how the website obtains its information.
It is not a radar display.
The information is obtained from aircraft carrying certain mandated transponder types, which hobbyist’s can pick up on their receivers and sent (via the internet) to the FR24 site.
There are still lots of transponders in use, that do not need to comply with those civilian regulations.
Also, where enthusiast receiver coverage is limited, the number of aircraft shown will be limited, or non-existent.

Actual, civil radar displays, show all military aircraft operating.
For example, in the UK and the rest of Europe, civil air traffic controllers will see everything flying within radar coverage.
Military aircraft not showing on FR24 will be perfectly visible to civil ATC.





The only time civil systems will not display military radar tracks, is either when they are flying at very low level, below radar coverage in a particular area, or on active live combat operations, where they’ll go dark to civil secondary radar and similar.
Primary radar returns can still be seen, unless the aircraft has stealth characteristic, employing electronic countermeasure, or again, flying below radar.
In combat situations, primary radars would be electronically jammed.

I think that’s the point @ainsworth74 and I were making, i.e. they can turn off their transponders if they wish not to be visible to flight tracking services.

 

[BananaRepublic]

I think that’s the point @ainsworth74 and I were making, i.e. they can turn off their transponders if they wish not to be visible to flight tracking services.

No, quite the opposite.
They are not turning anything off, in normal operations.
It’s the hobbyist flight tracking services that are not capable of seeing all aircraft, particularly many military aircraft.

Military aircraft switching their transponder modes, or turning them off will be in active combat, not when flying around on normal operations or exercises.
It also has nothing to do with these flight tracking services, which are only useful to hobbyists.


.