GWR short train lengths

[irish_rail]

Surely regarding the pedal they would have installed a test one on one unit only. Indeed one wonders who tested the design and thought it acceptable.

You would have thought so wouldn't you.....one reason why Aslef not happy. The feedback was bad right from the start yet more have since been fitted. Hopefully a fix will be found as the original supplier of DSD pedals went bust.

 

[Nym]

Why is it we're in a situation where a pedal, a relatively simple thing to buy or design, is causing such a problem?

 

[Essexman]

Am I missing something as it seems this could be resolved by simply keeping the refurbished trains that are / were in regular use for another year or two.
Wouldn't a solution be for GWR to go the the DFT and say they need agreement to keep the Castle HST sets in service?

 

[JN114]

Am I missing something as it seems this could be resolved by simply keeping the refurbished trains that are / were in regular use for another year or two.
Wouldn't a solution be for GWR to go the the DFT and say they need agreement to keep the Castle HST sets in service?

DfT will turn around and say tough, GWR agreed to withdraw them to meet the cost cuts they imposed. Agreement declined, run the services with the resources we said you could.

I said a few months ago, but I’ll say again here - this is just the start of a very painful period for the industry. The situation now has nothing on how bad things will get before they get better.

 

[Topological]

A lot of 5 on Swansea to London according to RTT.

Some 9s starting in the morning but they must go onto other diagrams once they reach London. Evidence that the diagrams are no so interlinked as to prevent more 387 use on London-Cardiff?

 

[RPI]

Just lately the shortforms on every part of GWR have been embarrassing, staff morale is pretty much on the floor anyway and these shortforms are the cherry on the cake! Its embarrassing having to make excuses, its almost up there with the December 2006 timetable/units of lease situation! What makes it worse is there appears to be not even a long term solution in the pipeline.

 

[Mark J]

Just lately the shortforms on every part of GWR have been embarrassing, staff morale is pretty much on the floor anyway and these shortforms are the cherry on the cake! Its embarrassing having to make excuses, its almost up there with the December 2006 timetable/units of lease situation! What makes it worse is there appears to be not even a long term solution in the pipeline.

Running five car trains is essentially 3½ carriages of standard class and 1½ of First Class.

On services that are clearly stupidly busy, then First Class should be automatically declassified. No ifs, no buts.

If the fare paying First Class passengers don't like it, then let them complain.

I feel that that a huge surge of complaints is now what is needed to help resolve the situation.

As a side note - the situation is NOT helped with selfish idiots whom think that a seat is for their bag. When a train is full and standing ALL seats are required.

A few weeks ago (on a five car service), I witnessed a passenger getting stroppy with the Train Manager when asked to put their bag in the overhead rack, so others could occupy the seat that passenger was selfishly using for their bag.

When the Train Manager walked off a comment was made, resulting in the TM asking the passenger what they said and some words exchanged.

 

[Master29]

Running five car trains is essentially 3½ carriages of standard class and 1½ of First Class.

On services that are clearly stupidly busy, then First Class should be automatically declassified. No ifs, no buts.

If the fare paying First Class passengers don't like it, then let them complain.

I feel that that a huge surge of complaints is now what is needed to help resolve the situation.

As a side note - the situation is NOT helped with selfish idiots whom think that a seat is for their bag. When a train is full and standing ALL seats are required.

A few weeks ago (on a five car service), I witnessed a passenger getting stroppy with the Train Manager when asked to put their bag in the overhead rack, so others could occupy the seat that passenger was selfishly using for their bag.

When the Train Manager walked off a comment was made, resulting in the TM asking the passenger what they said and some words exchanged.

This is not really accurate. Standard class is 290 seats compared to only 36 first class on a 5 car train so it won't make much difference.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

This is not really accurate. Standard class is 290 seats compared to only 36 first class on a 5 car train so it won't make much difference.

More standing room, though, at least.

 

[Mark J]

This is not really accurate. Standard class is 290 seats compared to only 36 first class on a 5 car train so it won't make much difference.

I wasn't referring to number of seats.

In terms of how the five car set is divided, it is roughly as I stated.

Even if it is ¾ of one carriage, it still equates to 1¼ carriages of a five car train being dedicated to First Class.

 

[Horizon22]

I never criticised the 769s; I don’t know about others.

I think everyone who was even remotely involved has criticised them! Never fit for purpose.

IET levels of capacity are required on Cotswolds routes. You could run a turbo as a one-off on a less reserved service and move people elsewhere but it would have to be exceptional.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2023 ==

Just lately the shortforms on every part of GWR have been embarrassing, staff morale is pretty much on the floor anyway and these shortforms are the cherry on the cake! Its embarrassing having to make excuses, its almost up there with the December 2006 timetable/units of lease situation! What makes it worse is there appears to be not even a long term solution in the pipeline.

The (odd) argument would probably be a long-term solution isn't needed; the units are there just not being made "available".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2023 ==

Running five car trains is essentially 3½ carriages of standard class and 1½ of First Class.

On services that are clearly stupidly busy, then First Class should be automatically declassified. No ifs, no buts.

If the fare paying First Class passengers don't like it, then let them complain.

Yes it certainly is a huge ratio, not to mention the kitchen area.

 

[RPI]

The (odd) argument would probably be a long-term solution isn't needed; the units are there just not being made "available".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2023 ==

Not long term, the entire west fleet needs replacement, despite rumblings of "Operation Churchward" the silence from anyone senior is deafening.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2023 ==

Running five car trains is essentially 3½ carriages of standard class and 1½ of First Class.

On services that are clearly stupidly busy, then First Class should be automatically declassified. No ifs, no buts.

If the fare paying First Class passengers don't like it, then let them complain.

I feel that that a huge surge of complaints is now what is needed to help resolve the situation.

As a side note - the situation is NOT helped with selfish idiots whom think that a seat is for their bag. When a train is full and standing ALL seats are required.

A few weeks ago (on a five car service), I witnessed a passenger getting stroppy with the Train Manager when asked to put their bag in the overhead rack, so others could occupy the seat that passenger was selfishly using for their bag.

When the Train Manager walked off a comment was made, resulting in the TM asking the passenger what they said and some words exchanged.

First class is full already when this happens, I worked a service the other day that was (booked) 5 car and there were more 1st class passengers than seats, despite standard being not quite full.

 

[Horizon22]

Not long term, the entire west fleet needs replacement, despite rumblings of "Operation Churchward" the silence from anyone senior is deafening.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2023 ==


First class is full already when this happens, I worked a service the other day that was (booked) 5 car and there were more 1st class passengers than seats, despite standard being not quite full.

It does, but to be honest this is entirely dependent on the DFT/Treasury, not anyone senior in GWR. The silence is probably because there's nothing to report.

 

[Falcon1200]

If the fare paying First Class passengers don't like it, then let them complain.

Which is what I have done after the experience I described in Post #118! Complaint submitted 2 weeks ago today, response from GWR (still) awaited.

On services that are clearly stupidly busy, then First Class should be automatically declassified. No ifs, no buts.

The First Class on the journey described in my Post above was as good as declassified, given that no GWR staff bothered to pass through the train in the 2 hours from Swindon to Swansea.

 

[JohnRegular]

To GWR's credit, the 16:27 departure from Cardiff towards Portsmouth (which hits Bristol and Bath at the peak) has been fairly consistently a 4 car 158 for the past few weeks, at least from my own observations. Probably better than a toss up between 3 or 5 car...

It does offer just about sufficient capacity (usually busy but not rammed), however I'm more concerned about the weekend services which can be chocker as a 5-car turbo.

 

[Parallel]

They seem to have made the 07:28 Cardiff to Portsmouth a 5 car Turbo which detaches 2 coaches at Bristol. This train is really busy into Bristol Tuesdays to Thursdays from my experience. I think it was previously booked for a 5 car 158 throughout but availability was poor and it frequently ran with 2 or 3 coaches, often being crushloaded and regularly had to have stops removed. I’ve taken it when it’s been a 3 car before and it was full and standing leaving Cardiff.

 

[Master29]

I wasn't referring to number of seats.

In terms of how the five car set is divided, it is roughly as I stated.

Even if it is ¾ of one carriage, it still equates to 1¼ carriages of a five car train being dedicated to First Class.

Remember as well each 5 car has a fully fitted kitchen which is a waste of time given how rarely they're used in comparison to LNER.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Not long term, the entire west fleet needs replacement, despite rumblings of "Operation Churchward" the silence from anyone senior is deafening.

Probably highly secretive because I’d imagine anything new will be designed for either DCO or DOO! The company won’t want that argument until it’s too late to change anything.

 

[Anonymous10]

Probably highly secretive because I’d imagine anything new will be designed for either DCO or DOO! The company won’t want that argument until it’s too late to change anything.

I hope they don't get rid of conductors.

 

[northernbelle]

I wasn't referring to number of seats.

In terms of how the five car set is divided, it is roughly as I stated.

Even if it is ¾ of one carriage, it still equates to 1¼ carriages of a five car train being dedicated to First Class.

Except it isn't. Taking your (very) approximate way of dividing up the train, about two thirds of a coach is taken up with FC - a third in the composite coach and a third in the DPTF.

 

[father_jack]

First class is full already when this happens, I worked a service the other day that was (booked) 5 car and there were more 1st class passengers than seats, despite standard being not quite full.

There is a long misguided belief particularly amongst senior or sometimes disabled travellers that paying out ridiculous sums for open first class tickets (where advances are never available) on trains that we know will be busy will solve their seating problems.

Like boarding the 1203 ex Paddington into Cornwall on a Friday at Taunton. And that's not taking into account that it "could" turn up as a 5 on the day....

 

[Krokodil]

Probably highly secretive because I’d imagine anything new will be designed for either DCO or DOO! The company won’t want that argument until it’s too late to change anything.

All new units will be fitted with driver door controls* and bodyside cameras, whether or not they are intended to work on DOO services. The ROSCOs want to secure their investment and therefore want something that is easily transfer able to other operators if the lease isn't renewed.

*these have been a standard fit for several decades

 

[vicbury]

They seem to have made the 07:28 Cardiff to Portsmouth a 5 car Turbo which detaches 2 coaches at Bristol. This train is really busy into Bristol Tuesdays to Thursdays from my experience. I think it was previously booked for a 5 car 158 throughout but availability was poor and it frequently ran with 2 or 3 coaches, often being crushloaded and regularly had to have stops removed. I’ve taken it when it’s been a 3 car before and it was full and standing leaving Cardiff.

Thankfully it does seem that way. I take this service between Severn Tunnel Junction and Temple Meads. I feel sorry for everyone going beyond Bristol however!

 

[800301]

This is a very recent development , ie past couple of weeks. From personal experience it seems the 800/3s are the ones affected, and so there's now several of them that in theory shouldn't be used on the Wofe, but by no means the whole fleet. But it will no doubt be further headaches for the fleet people. Could be why there has been more 10 cars to the south west in past week or two , and very few 9 cars.

I drove 800022 yesterday and that new pedal is very different to the original ones in the way it operates, no give in it at all, at least it was only fitted to the DPTS cab, hopefully a fix comes along soon

 

[irish_rail]

I drove 800022 yesterday and that new pedal is very different to the original ones in the way it operates, no give in it at all, at least it was only fitted to the DPTS cab, hopefully a fix comes along soon

So it isn't just 800/3s then...... I can add 802103 to the list so clearly they are being rolled out across all fleets. No wonder they are struggling to allocate rolling stock accordingly. Could be why there are alot more 10s and fewer 9s on the PZ route.

 

[Essexman]

Remember as well each 5 car has a fully fitted kitchen which is a waste of time given how rarely they're used in comparison to LNER.

Arguably the waste isn't having the kitchens but not using them, at least on longer runs.

Very poor that only sandwiches are available on five hour runs to Penzance (and can't even rely on them being on the trolley).

 

[DelW]

I drove 800022 yesterday and that new pedal is very different to the original ones in the way it operates, no give in it at all, at least it was only fitted to the DPTS cab, hopefully a fix comes along soon

Is there any explanation why they're being changed, surely the original ones can't be worn out since the trains aren't very old?

There's probably rolling stock being scrapped with serviceable and proven pedals, but presumably different mountings or connections that wouldn't be simple to transfer.

 

[Benjwri]

Is there any explanation why they're being changed, surely the original ones can't be worn out since the trains aren't very old?

There's probably rolling stock being scrapped with serviceable and proven pedals, but presumably different mountings or connections that wouldn't be simple to transfer.

The issue unfortunately isn’t with the pedal itself, it’s the microcontroller which was manufactured by a company which is now out of business.

 

[Annetts key]

The issue unfortunately isn’t with the pedal itself, it’s the microcontroller which was manufactured by a company which is now out of business.

The company that manufactures the microcontroller, or the company that owns the IP of the code run on the microcontroller?
If the former, another microcontroller may be able to be used, but a redesign may be needed. If the latter, yeah, until/unless a going concern buys the the IP of the code, no more can be produced.

 

[DelW]

The company that manufactures the microcontroller, or the company that owns the IP of the code run on the microcontroller?
If the former, another microcontroller may be able to be used, but a redesign may be needed. If the latter, yeah, until/unless a going concern buys the the IP of the code, no more can be produced.

Post #384 (and previous ones by @irish_rail) suggest that it's more an issue with the mechanical "feel" of the pedal than the electronics that it interacts with.