'Night Riviera' cancellations

[railfan99]

The GWR website states that the 'NR' is cancelled for two weeks from Friday 28 July to Friday 11 August (I assume inclusive).

Is this due to the ASLEF overtime ban or some other reason?

I am booked on various dates in September 2023 so nail biting to see if this (in)action continues, as can be expensive in UK to arrange hotels at the proverbial last minute.

 

[irish_rail]

Presume its the overtime an as its thr first thing GWR are cancelling everytime a ban is announced. Shame really as soon crew will start needing class 57 refreshers and it'll be game over. This time of year the sleepers are very busy, really some kind of effort should be made to run it. Certainly Plymouth wise ,on the amended jobs the driver just travels now where they would normally be driving the sleeper so no advantage or saving in it not running. I'm less sure from an Exeter perspective , but it can't be more than one or two drivers needed to run it.

 

[railfan99]

Presume its the overtime an as its thr first thing GWR are cancelling everytime a ban is announced. Shame really as soon crew will start needing class 57 refreshers and it'll be game over. This time of year the sleepers are very busy, really some kind of effort should be made to run it. Certainly Plymouth wise ,on the amended jobs the driver just travels now where they would normally be driving the sleeper so no advantage or saving in it not running. I'm less sure from an Exeter perspective , but it can't be more than one or two drivers needed to run it.

That's one or two drivers every night each way, but as you imply small in the overall 'pattern'.

I'll risk it and not book replacement hotels. Thank you for informing me of the priority (nil) GWR gives this named train. Yet it promotes it heavily on its website.

 

[irish_rail]

That's one or two drivers every night each way, but as you imply small in the overall 'pattern'.

I'll risk it and not book replacement hotels. Thank you for informing me of the priority (nil) GWR gives this named train. Yet it promotes it heavily on its website.

Not really small, as other than Plymouth you have a total of 4 Exeter drivers, plus one Padd and one Pz for the ECS moves at either end. I'm pretty sure at least two of those 4 Exeter drivers now taxi or travel vice driving the 57, so again, no actual crew saving there. There will also need to be a Penzance "shed ferry" driver anyway so again, not too sure there is a great saving . Id argue it isn't as Labour intensive as some of the services GWR run that are split up to change crews multiple times on route. One hopes this won't be used as a ploy to discontinue the Cornish sleepers going forward by making the service so unreliable, but that's probably for another thread! Also , just a point of order i do not represent GWR so cannot say that they give this service nil priority . I'm just giving a personal opinion , and providing some info on train crewing.

 

[railfan99]

Cancelling a train for a fortnight sure doesn't help in building patronage. Like you, one hopes this isn't a 'wider agenda'.

 

[duncanp]

Only in Britain could cancel a train to a major holiday area during one of the busiest times of the year.

This is on top of cancelling all trains to Brighton on Pride weekend, just when a lot of people want to travel to Brighton.

I am aware of the reasons, but it seems that some people in the rail industry couldn't care less about the passengers and the inconvenience they are put through.

 

[railfan99]

I am aware of the reasons, but it seems that some people in the rail industry couldn't care less about the passengers and the inconvenience they are put through.

It's as if some (or many) of these unionists want to see the number of jobs cut. They fail to realise continual strikes drive (poor pun) more locals to travel by road if they have a car or purchase one. Do these rail employees want to see rail travel become less and less important when in a small, congested island group of nations it should be attractive as motorways/freeways/tollways (and local roads) can be very congested?

Every nation is different, but in mine (that I do not claim to be unattainable 'nirvana'), I can't recall strikes or other forms of industrial action ever dragging on for a year plus.

Naively, I thought when in UK in September/October 2022 "return a year later, and the dispute(s) would be long over."

The continuation sends a shocking, most unimpressive message to foreigners that union militancy is alive and well, and b----r the travelling public.

This unwise ongoing action also benefits competitors such as coach lines National Express, Flixbus et al.

 

[co-tr-paul]

As stated on another thread, there is engineering disruption right up until January with service only running on Friday and Sunday.

 

[railfan99]

As stated on another thread, there is engineering disruption right up until January with service only running on Friday and Sunday.

Huge thanks for letting me know, as while I'd searched for 'Night Riviera', I'd not seen that.

But on 12 September midweek when I'm booked in one direction, it still appears available for booking on the GWR site. (I didn't complete the 'ghost booking' just now, but the train schedule (departure from Penzance etc.) displays, and it allows selection of a seat or a sleeping compartment.

Are you sure the information elsewhere is correct?

 

[co-tr-paul]

Huge thanks for letting me know, as while I'd searched for 'Night Riviera', I'd not seen that.

But on 12 September midweek when I'm booked in one direction, it still appears available for booking on the GWR site. (I didn't complete the 'ghost booking' just now, but the train schedule (departure from Penzance etc.) displays, and it allows selection of a seat or a sleeping compartment.

Are you sure the information elsewhere is correct?

I'm part of the team who prepare it.at Long Rock ! Used to run the update thread on here back a while.
Without looking up believe sun 10 is last one until Fri 15. Same up then until Fri 3 Oct when goes to Plymouth. Then fri/sun only fir rest of year .

 

[FGW_DID]

The GWR website states that the 'NR' is cancelled for two weeks from Friday 28 July to Friday 11 August (I assume inclusive).

Is this due to the ASLEF overtime ban or some other reason?

I am booked on various dates in September 2023 so nail biting to see if this (in)action continues, as can be expensive in UK to arrange hotels at the proverbial last minute.

Suspension of Night Rivera between the above dates is due to the Industrial Action (ASOS) by ASLEF.

 

[island]

It's as if some (or many) of these unionists want to see the number of jobs cut. They fail to realise continual strikes drive (poor pun) more locals to travel by road if they have a car or purchase one. Do these rail employees want to see rail travel become less and less important when in a small, congested island group of nations it should be attractive as motorways/freeways/tollways (and local roads) can be very congested?

Every nation is different, but in mine (that I do not claim to be unattainable 'nirvana'), I can't recall strikes or other forms of industrial action ever dragging on for a year plus.

Indeed. The Night Riviera in particular is the ultimate in discretionary spend for passengers.

 

[Master29]

It's as if some (or many) of these unionists want to see the number of jobs cut. They fail to realise continual strikes drive (poor pun) more locals to travel by road if they have a car or purchase one. Do these rail employees want to see rail travel become less and less important when in a small, congested island group of nations it should be attractive as motorways/freeways/tollways (and local roads) can be very congested?

Every nation is different, but in mine (that I do not claim to be unattainable 'nirvana'), I can't recall strikes or other forms of industrial action ever dragging on for a year plus.

Naively, I thought when in UK in September/October 2022 "return a year later, and the dispute(s) would be long over."

The continuation sends a shocking, most unimpressive message to foreigners that union militancy is alive and well, and b----r the travelling public.

This unwise ongoing action also benefits competitors such as coach lines National Express, Flixbus et al.

You seem to blame the unions for everything wrong with the UK railways. Perhaps if you took a look at the hopeless government we have in the UK you might see a different picture. I`m not sure they want to disrupt your travel plans.

 

[deepthought]

Chatting to an Exeter driver who works the sleepers and I asked why the NR is being cancelled and they told me that nearly every week they have to ask drivers to come off their booked work to crew it due to lack of cover. The question must be asked of GW why they haven't trained or traction refreshed the staff for a service that runs six times a week. As always the staff are being blamed for the failings of others.

 

[Sleepy]

So why can't diversionary routes be used like has been normal custom previously ? Co-tr-paul is correct, runs Sunday 15th Oct. then not until Friday 20th ! Wonder what happens to the berth attendants all the shifts it doesn't operate ?

 

[geoffk]

Probably the DfT/Treasury would like to be rid of the Night Riviera so a fortnight's suspension during the summer holidays will help them achieve their aim. In any case the slam-door stock will need replacing in the not too distant future, not to mention the locos.

 

[MasterPhillips]

Chatting to an Exeter driver who works the sleepers and I asked why the NR is being cancelled and they told me that nearly every week they have to ask drivers to come off their booked work to crew it due to lack of cover. The question must be asked of GW why they haven't trained or traction refreshed the staff for a service that runs six times a week. As always the staff are being blamed for the failings of others.

Yes I believe the sleeper is run almost entirely on overtime hence the cancellation during the overtime bans.

 

[geoffk]

Yes I believe the sleeper is run almost entirely on overtime hence the cancellation during the overtime bans.

I wondered what a timetable which didn't rely at all on overtime would look like (i.e. overtime only for training and sickness cover).

 

[MasterPhillips]

I wondered what a timetable which didn't rely at all on overtime would look like (i.e. overtime only for training and sickness cover).

Well the timetable during the current ban is pretty much normal for GWR. A few trains have been timetabled to terminate short such as a few Cheltenham services terminating at Gloucester but not too much different.

Of course the Sleeper being cancelled is probably the most noticeable.

 

[geoffk]

Well the timetable during the current ban is pretty much normal for GWR. A few trains have been timetabled to terminate short such as a few Cheltenham services terminating at Gloucester but not too much different.

Of course the Sleeper being cancelled is probably the most noticeable.

Thanks. But for some other TOCs it would look very different.

 

[JamieL]

What sort of usage does the Night Rivera get out of interest? It leaves Paddington very late and passes through the major cities enroute very early - I looked to scope a trip to Plymouth butcwoukd only have gotten about 5hrs sleep. And is there much demand to goto Penzance? I suppose the rich London based second home owners might be a lucrative market - must beat sitting on the M5 for hours!

 

[MasterPhillips]

Thanks. But for some other TOCs it would look very different.

Yes, see SWRs current timetable. Pretty much half the number of services off peak!

 

[irish_rail]

What sort of usage does the Night Rivera get out of interest? It leaves Paddington very late and passes through the major cities enroute very early - I looked to scope a trip to Plymouth butcwoukd only have gotten about 5hrs sleep. And is there much demand to goto Penzance? I suppose the rich London based second home owners might be a lucrative market - must beat sitting on the M5 for hours!

Always well used whenever I've driven it and a decent number alighting at Penzance. Far fewer seem to travel from London to Plymouth or points east of Truro, but a fair number seem to get off at St Erth and Penzance (plus Truro)

Yes I believe the sleeper is run almost entirely on overtime hence the cancellation during the overtime bans.

Not at Plymouth. Sadly, we used to have an additional job on it , but in their wisdom, it was given to Exeter HSS , who now are down to about 30 odd drivers in total, and not surprisingly increasingly struggle to cover it. It will only get worse unless more drivers at Plymouth are trained up, and some of the work transferred from Exeter to Plymouth (ie the 2140 departure from PZ as far as Plymouth could easily be a Plymouth driver rather than using an Exeter one.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Without looking up believe sun 10 is last one until Fri 15. Same up then until Fri 3 Oct when goes to Plymouth. Then fri/sun only fir rest of year .

What do you mean by "same up then"?
(We are booked on the nights of Sun 3rd and Fri 8th September).

 

[MasterPhillips]

Not at Plymouth. Sadly, we used to have an additional job on it , but in their wisdom, it was given to Exeter HSS , who now are down to about 30 odd drivers in total, and not surprisingly increasingly struggle to cover it. It will only get worse unless more drivers at Plymouth are trained up, and some of the work transferred from Exeter to Plymouth (ie the 2140 departure from PZ as far as Plymouth could easily be a Plymouth driver rather than using an Exeter one.

I assume it’s the Exeter based drivers who take it from Exeter to London, meaning it is that leg which they struggle to cover"?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

What is the engineering reason for binning the sleeper between October and January out of interest? There was a major resignalling scheme planned for mid-Cornwall in November but this has now been deferred to (probably) March 2024.

 

[trebor79]

What sort of usage does the Night Rivera get out of interest? It leaves Paddington very late and passes through the major cities enroute very early - I looked to scope a trip to Plymouth butcwoukd only have gotten about 5hrs sleep. And is there much demand to goto Penzance? I suppose the rich London based second home owners might be a lucrative market - must beat sitting on the M5 for hours!

I've used it for business purposes to get to/from St Austell. The long layover at Plymouth and some other replaces means I actually get some sleep in contrast to the Caledonian Sleeper.

 

[irish_rail]

I assume it’s the Exeter based drivers who take it from Exeter to London, meaning it is that leg which they struggle to cover"?

I'm not sure exactly re Exeter, I just know there aren't many HSS drivers there now, many are also part time etc so they have a very small pool to choose from. If it was upto me they would do everything Exeter to Paddington (due to them having all route knowledge inc the Southern and Hullavington) with Plymouth doing everything west of Exeter sleeper wise.

 

[MasterPhillips]

I'm not sure exactly re Exeter, I just know there aren't many HSS drivers there now, many are also part time etc so they have a very small pool to choose from. If it was upto me they would do everything Exeter to Paddington (due to them having all route knowledge inc the Southern and Hullavington) with Plymouth doing everything west of Exeter sleeper wise.

That would make sense. How is it done currently?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I'm not sure exactly re Exeter, I just know there aren't many HSS drivers there now, many are also part time etc so they have a very small pool to choose from. If it was upto me they would do everything Exeter to Paddington (due to them having all route knowledge inc the Southern and Hullavington) with Plymouth doing everything west of Exeter sleeper wise.

I’m pretty sure someone told me recently that Hullavington was off the routing menu for the sleeper from December onwards, presumably that’s due to reduced availability of crew with the required knowledge.