Castleton South Junction Renewal

[Whisky Papa]

Back in March, I was travelling from Todmorden into Manchester Victoria and just happened to notice that the connection from the south curve at Castleton had been severed a few metres short of the junction. The characteristic "thump" and sway when passing over the switch in the Up direction, just before the M62 bridge, had gone too, so I assumed the junction had been entirely removed and plain-lined.

Yesterday, I noticed it appeared to have been reconnected. I assume this is a like-for-like replacement, only useable in the Up direction? I'd be very grateful for confirmation of this and some idea of how long the situation I described in the first paragraph lasted, if anyone knows?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Geeves]

I rode through yesterday but the cross over was still missing and I didn't look again today

Certainly its more than two years but maybe less than 5. Its been a long time thats for sure

 

[Whisky Papa]

I rode through yesterday but the cross over was still missing and I didn't look again today

Certainly its more than two years but maybe less than 5. Its been a long time thats for sure

Thanks for the response. However, I'm wondering if we are thinking of the same bit of trackwork when you refer to a crossover, or have I misunderstood? It was the connection from the south curve ie from the East Lancs Railway into the southbound line between Rochdale and Manchester I was meaning, which I understood was still connected until relatively recently. When I passed in March, there was a short stretch of ballast visible between the junction and the curve where the track had been lifted, which I certainly thought was a new development. Now the track there has been relaid.

 

[zwk500]

The diamond/fixed crossing was plain lined a while ago, I thought. If it has been put back I presume it will have gone back in as a like-for-like as any changes would have needed resignalling to add in the 3 sets of points and associated interlocking to the Box.

 

[The Planner]

The M62 bridge is in need of renewal, and there is a restriction on only having one freight on the bridge at a time I believe.

 

[CAF397]

Not just freight. Any train.

No trains should pass each other over the bridge, the signaller at Castleton East Jn should regulate accordingly.

 

[pdeaves]

No trains should pass over the bridge

pass each other... (just to avoid anyone else reading that as wrongly as I did first time!).

 

[cin88]

Bridge 48A (over the M62) is for want of a better phrase, absolutely knackered. Only one train can be on that bridge at any one time. They plain lined Castleton South Jn to save weight on the bridge. The current estimate is 2025 for renewal of the bridge so this arrangement will be in for a while yet, which led to a groan from me when I was informed by my LOM a few days ago.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Bridge 48A (over the M62) is for want of a better phrase, absolutely knackered. Only one train can be on that bridge at any one time. They plain lined Castleton South Jn to save weight on the bridge. The current estimate is 2025 for renewal of the bridge so this arrangement will be in for a while yet, which led to a groan from me when I was informed by my LOM a few days ago.

Thanks. Do you have a date for when it was plain-lined, please?

Also, I'm assuming the switch on the Up line must have been partially on the bridge deck, if this was a weight-saving exercise?

 

[CAF397]

pass each other... (just to avoid anyone else reading that as wrongly as I did first time!).

Quite! Thank you for the correction. Edited.

 

[cin88]

Thanks. Do you have a date for when it was plain-lined, please?

Also, I'm assuming the switch on the Up line must have been partially on the bridge deck, if this was a weight-saving exercise?

Unfortunately I don't, it all happened before I moved onto the area. I'm not sure how much actual equipment is meant to be on the bridge deck, I do know that that set of points is though.

 

[Snow1964]

A prior Approval Application has been submitted to rebuild the bridge over M62 at Castleton

Massive disruptions expected for rail and motorway users as M62 bridge set for rebuild

Network Rail has submitted plans to Rochdale council for the reconstruction of Castleton Bridge (48A), a vital link in the Manchester-Leeds railway line.

ilovemanchester.com

It is ref 23/00744/PRA56 on planning section of Rochdale Council website, but there appear to be no associated documents.

 

[Ploughman]

from the BBC Manchester news page.

Plans for Manchester-Leeds M62 railway bridge to be rebuilt

Network Rail wants to rebuild the bridge which runs over the M62 motorway at Castleton, Rochdale.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[jonesy3001]

Will the trains be diverted down the stalybridge line or replacement buses between Rochdale and Victoria?

 

[The Planner]

Will the trains be diverted down the stalybridge line or replacement buses between Rochdale and Victoria?

More than likely buses.

 

[175001]

The bridge has had a weight limit on it for months now and it can only take 1 train over it. We are regularly held at either the signal before the bridge in the Leeds direction, or we get held out of Castleton in the Manchester direction.

 

[zwk500]

Is it normal to submit a Planning application for a bridge rebuild?

 

[CalderTrains]

I travel over that bridge very regularly and it's very common to be stopped waiting for traffic going the other way, or at least cautioned to a slow speed.
My local is Littleborough/Sowerby Bridge so when heading west it's easier to go from Littleborough

 

[507020]

The bridge has had a weight limit on it for months now and it can only take 1 train over it. We are regularly held at either the signal before the bridge in the Leeds direction, or we get held out of Castleton in the Manchester direction.

I take it that the original embankment of the Manchester and Leeds Railway that was severed to build the M62 did not have this problem.

 

[Snow1964]

Is it normal to submit a Planning application for a bridge rebuild?

A prior application approval.
More a notification of we are going ahead and any comments please to confirm development is acceptable, than we would like to apply for permission.

 

[175001]

I take it that the original embankment of the Manchester and Leeds Railway that was severed to build the M62 did not have this problem.

I would imagine so!

 

[zwk500]

I take it that the original embankment of the Manchester and Leeds Railway that was severed to build the M62 did not have this problem.

Are you suggesting the NR should put the embankment back?

 

[The exile]

Are you suggesting the NR should put the embankment back?

An obviously shoddily-built bridge (knackered after only 55 years) built presumably by the motorway builders is now unable to fulfil its role so yes, put back the embankment until the motorway authorities get their act together. (Only partly joking - certainly not about a shamefully short lifespan on the bridge- should be measured in centuries!)

 

[Watershed]

An obviously shoddily-built bridge (knackered after only 55 years) built presumably by the motorway builders is now unable to fulfil its role so yes, put back the embankment until the motorway authorities get their act together. (Only partly joking - certainly not about a shamefully short lifespan on the bridge- should be measured in centuries!)

I think it's more a suggestion that the highways authority should be paying for the cost of the repairs/rebuild. Of course they won't!

 

[jfollows]

BBC says (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-66462410)

It is used by trains travelling from Huddersfield in West Yorkshire to Greater Manchester.

so it’s some surprise thay haven’t also used their stock 4-VEP picture.

 

[The Planner]

Its a post tensioned bridge apparently. Doesnt matter who built it, it appears that they dont degrade in a very linear manner.

 

[Snow1964]

I take it that the original embankment of the Manchester and Leeds Railway that was severed to build the M62 did not have this problem.

One article says it was built in 1969 with an agreement of British Railways Board and Ministry of Transport.

Unless anyone has access to the archives, or lives in the area and can find some info in an old local newspaper from 1969, then not going to know what was agreed.

It is unusual as it was triangular (4 tracks wide at northern side) as originally had a double junction on the bridge

But the bridge must be in bad way, if they are considering rebuilding it, rather than than putting a new single track bridge on eastern side next to it, so current bridge is reduced to one track to lighten load.

 

[swt_passenger]

Replace concrete deck with steel deck or decks built nearby, move them using modular transported, would be the likely solution? A few days work over a long bank holiday weekend perhaps?

Unless one or both of the abutments have failed, which would take a while longer.

 

[jonesy3001]

They must be doing the bridges and other works before they electrify the line to rochdale in 2030.

 

[The Planner]

They must be doing the bridges and other works before they electrify the line to rochdale in 2030.

Where has that been commited to?