The last coal train?

[MikePJ]

Having moved to Cardiff about a year ago, I’ve seen the coal trains that run down the Rhymney line from Cwmbargoed. The coal comes from the Fros-y-Fran opencast mine near Merthyr Tydfil, which is closing on November 30th, so at some point the last trainload of coal will leave the site. That got me thinking:

• Is this the last coal train in Wales?
• Is it the last train of domestically-produced coal in the UK?

If not, please tell me which other coal trains will continue running? If it is the last, it feels like the end of an era, given how much coal and railways have been intertwined from the beginning.

As far as I’m aware there’s only one other active mine in Wales (producing specialist coal for chemical use, including for carbon electrodes in batteries) and it’s not rail connected.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

If it happens, (and I think it’s becoming increasingly unlikely), the new mine in Whitehaven will see a revival of coal trains on the network.

 

[Freightmaster]

...it feels like the end of an era, given how much coal and railways have been intertwined from the beginning.

Agreed. This rousing track from the criminally underrated UK band 'Public Service Broadcasting' highlights
the optimism of the 'secure future' of the 1950s/60s coal industry.

 

[sharpley]

The few remaining coal-fired power stations use imported coal, although none of these power stations are used on a daily basis. Ratcliffe PS will be the final one to be decommissioned next year I believe.

Can't be much market for rail hauled coal, especially domestic, outside of power generation.

 

[trainswitheddy]

The few remaining coal-fired power stations use imported coal, although none of these power stations are used on a daily basis. Ratcliffe PS will be the final one to be decommissioned next year I believe.

Can't be much market for rail hauled coal, especially domestic, outside of power generation.

I think I read somewhere that coal is used in the manufacture of british steel? Might be wrong though

 

[sharpley]

I think I read somewhere that coal is used in the manufacture of british steel? Might be wrong though

Forgot about steel production, or cement for that matter. I'd guess that most coal in these industries is imported rather than domestic though. Could be wrong though.

 

[trainswitheddy]

Forgot about steel production, or cement for that matter. I'd guess that most coal in these industries is imported rather than domestic though. Could be wrong though.

I think you're right about that, I'd imagine it's much cheaper to import (however ironically far less environmentally friendly I've heard)

* corrected "import" from important

 

[MikePJ]

Agreed. This rousing track from the criminally underrated UK band 'Public Service Broadcasting' highlights
the optimism of the 'secure future' of the 1950s/60s coal industry.

Love this band!

I think you're right about that, I'd imagine it's much cheaper to important (however ironically far less environmentally friendly I've heard)

At the moment a lot of the coal from Fros-y-Fran goes to the steelworks at Port Talbot. But they are set up to import coal, and did buy Russian coal until recently. The only other remaining blast furnace steelworks is at Scunthorpe - all the other steelworks in the country are electric arc furnaces that recycle existing steel.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I think I read somewhere that coal is used in the manufacture of british steel? Might be wrong though

Indeed, but coal for making steel (it's an ingredient, not just a fuel) needs certain chemical content, so not all domestic coal is suitable.
One thing Welsh coal is particularly suited for is raising steam. Most heritage railways currently get their supplies from Cwmbargoed, especially since the best alternative supplier is now embargoed, having invaded Ukraine.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I think I read somewhere that coal is used in the manufacture of british steel? Might be wrong though

It is. The Tata works at Port Talbot used to use coal from Tower Colliery which was transported by rail. These days, it uses imports and an announcement is expected soon on the introduction of electric furnaces.

As has been mentioned, the Aberpergwm mine in the Nedd valley is still open producing anthracite coal for filter beds and the like but that's transported by road in relatively small amounts.

 

[Frodingham]

Love this band!


At the moment a lot of the coal from Fros-y-Fran goes to the steelworks at Port Talbot. But they are set up to import coal, and did buy Russian coal until recently. The only other remaining blast furnace steelworks is at Scunthorpe - all the other steelworks in the country are electric arc furnaces that recycle existing steel.

There's 4 blast furnaces at Scunny but only one is currently operational. Coal was being imported via Immingham until Appleby coke ovens were closed earlier this year. Coke is now being imported through Immingham from Australia (I think) and is brought to the steelworks via road.

 

[Bartsimho]

I thought there was some plans to have at least some domestic production for "national security" purposes but some groups moaned about the environmental cost (despite importing from Australia is probably worse environmentally)

 

[Chester1]

I thought there was some plans to have at least some domestic production for "national security" purposes but some groups moaned about the environmental cost (despite importing from Australia is probably worse environmentally)

I am not aware of this for coal in last decade or two. There has been an unofficial policy of retaining blast furnaces at two different sites for as long as possible. Its not clear yet that Tata will put its Port Talbot eggs all in the electric arc furness basket. There may yet be government support for a hydrogen fueled furnace there. Alternatively Scunthorpe could receive the subsidy instead. Its good national security to have at least one furness making new steal even if the UK industry is fine primarily using recycled steel.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The few remaining coal-fired power stations use imported coal, although none of these power stations are used on a daily basis. Ratcliffe PS will be the final one to be decommissioned next year I believe.

Can't be much market for rail hauled coal, especially domestic, outside of power generation.

Yup Ratcliffe the only coal fired PS left on the National Grid currently has to be closed by Sept 24 but given its been called upon on an almost daily basis for last few months it may get a stay of execution if gas prices stay elevated.

 

[Bartsimho]

Yup Ratcliffe the only coal fired PS left on the National Grid currently has to be closed by Sept 24 but given its been called upon on an almost daily basis for last few months it may get a stay of execution if gas prices stay elevated.

I thought the idea for Ratcliffe that it would stay as backup until its existing coal supply ran out. It still has a mountain sat just next to the station to use. This is it from May: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.8...2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0&entry=ttu

 

[Ian79]

I thought the idea for Ratcliffe that it would stay as backup until its existing coal supply ran out. It still has a mountain sat just next to the station to use. This is it from May: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.8...2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0&entry=ttu

If it does close before all that coal is used, I suspect the last coal train may actually be taking the coal away from there after the power station has closed. Presumably it will be exported back to Europe somewhere which does still use coal power stations rather than being put back into the ground.
We will still see trains carrying fuel to power stations for some time after that though, with the trains carrying wood to Drax (which was originally run off coal) likely to continue for some more years yet.

 

[SeanBentley]

You are correct that the market for coal, especially domestically mined coal, has decreased significantly outside of power generation. The decommissioning of coal-fired power stations, including Ratcliffe PS, reflects the shift towards cleaner energy sources and reduced demand for coal. As a result, the market for rail-hauled coal has indeed diminished.

 

[Dan G]

I am not aware of this for coal in last decade or two. There has been an unofficial policy of retaining blast furnaces at two different sites for as long as possible. Its not clear yet that Tata will put its Port Talbot eggs all in the electric arc furness basket. There may yet be government support for a hydrogen fueled furnace there. Alternatively Scunthorpe could receive the subsidy instead. Its good national security to have at least one furness making new steal even if the UK industry is fine primarily using recycled steel.

Tata have been clear; Port Talbot is either converting to electric-arc or closing. The existing furnaces are end of life.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66697658

Yup Ratcliffe the only coal fired PS left on the National Grid currently has to be closed by Sept 24 but given its been called upon on an almost daily basis for last few months it may get a stay of execution if gas prices stay elevated.

Ratcliffe is definitely closing in September 2024. It only operates to provide regional grid stability, but the need for that will be removed this year under projects National Grid ESO have in progress.

 

[Chester1]

Tata have been clear; Port Talbot is either converting to electric-arc or closing. The existing furnaces are end of life.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66697658

Labour is calling for support to enable Tata to broaden their approach e.g. a green hydrogen furnance too. I don't think its particularly likely. Our national security needs can be met by building one when Scunthorpe reaches end of life and the tech is more mature. Even if Tata could be persuaded to change its plans it wouldn't change the answer to the thread question.

 

[kkong]

Yup Ratcliffe the only coal fired PS left on the National Grid currently has to be closed by Sept 24 but given its been called upon on an almost daily basis for last few months it may get a stay of execution if gas prices stay elevated.

I read this as 24th September, i.e. in two weeks' time.

But I see from a later post it is actually Sep 2024?

 

[Flying Phil]

Fortunately we can still see these running (- albeit empty!) on the GCR for many years to come.

Picture by R Warren

 

[HSTEd]

It is likely that future "security" steelmaking demands could be met by a Midrex (other manufacturers are available) direct reduction furnace using hydrogen or (in the interim) natural gas at far lower cost than trying to maintain the blast furnace apparatus.

 

[mac]

I thought the idea for Ratcliffe that it would stay as backup until its existing coal supply ran out. It still has a mountain sat just next to the station to use. This is it from May: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.8...2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0&entry=ttu

Ratcliffe still has coal delivered by rail from immingham

 

[Frodingham]

West Burton coal store is being removed and taken back to Immingham - by road!

 

[Lemmy282]

"Ratcliffe still has coal delivered by rail from immingham"

Are you sure? Last one I saw was about March this year, they came on the "old road" past Beighton, and although the paths are still in RTT, they are shown as cancelled.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If it does close before all that coal is used, I suspect the last coal train may actually be taking the coal away from there after the power station has closed. Presumably it will be exported back to Europe somewhere which does still use coal power stations rather than being put back into the ground.
We will still see trains carrying fuel to power stations for some time after that though, with the trains carrying wood to Drax (which was originally run off coal) likely to continue for some more years yet.

Its been run up to nearly 900MW this evening so it will have used quite a few thousands tons of coal today as it has done almost daily for several weeks so that stockpile is being whittled away and be interesting if they top it up in advance of winter or just run it down now.

 

[mac]

"Ratcliffe still has coal delivered by rail from immingham"

Are you sure? Last one I saw was about March this year, they came on the "old road" past Beighton, and although the paths are still in RTT, they are shown as cancelled.

I work in a signal box and have them coming past but not often

 

[ian1944]

I believe that the Tarmac cement plant at Dunbar uses only Solid Recovered Fuel made from waste material, so no coal to there for several years. Will there be an outpouring of nostalgia when the last SRF train runs?

 

[mac]

According to the National grid at 0630 this morning 3.1% of our electricity was produced by coal

 

[Chester1]

I believe that the Tarmac cement plant at Dunbar uses only Solid Recovered Fuel made from waste material, so no coal to there for several years. Will there be an outpouring of nostalgia when the last SRF train runs?

The first railway was not built to haul SRF! Until recently coal was still a large proportion of rail freight. I am glad that Britain is close to stopping using coal on a commercial scale but its very understandable that people will want to mark the end of an era.