Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Vanmanyo]

Anyway, back to 701s...

Yes... I haven't really been keeping up to date with the 701s since I last went on a few at Long Marston (yes I am lucky enough to actually have been on a moving 701!!!!); so is there anything with them potentially coming into service this year?

 

[St. Paddy]

It's blatantly obvious at this point that 1 will run in service this year. All be it a Special turn on a random day before Christmas. My betting is Christmas eve and will be a full management crew

Can’t see management coming out on a Sunday!!

 

[Carlisle]

Can’t see management coming out on a Sunday!!

If the money’s right I’m sure they will

 

[The_Train]

If the money’s right I’m sure they will

And if there is a newspaper photographer there - although maybe this debacle is too much for those who love a good photoshoot to want to keep their faces out of the press

 

[pompeyfan]

Can’t see management coming out on a Sunday!!

To be fair there’s plenty of managers at the lower end of the scale, there’s multiple layers between Clare Mann and a driver. That said I think there’s wording in the ASLEF charter that stipulates that only the driver grade will drive a train in passenger service unless it’s an emergency to clear the running line (think post fatality) or if there’s IA.

 

[vikingdriver]

To be fair there’s plenty of managers at the lower end of the scale, there’s multiple layers between Clare Mann and a driver. That said I think there’s wording in the ASLEF charter that stipulates that only the driver grade will drive a train in passenger service unless it’s an emergency to clear the running line (think post fatality) or if there’s IA.

I believe that to be the case as well.

 

[Goldfish62]

To be fair there’s plenty of managers at the lower end of the scale, there’s multiple layers between Clare Mann and a driver. That said I think there’s wording in the ASLEF charter that stipulates that only the driver grade will drive a train in passenger service unless it’s an emergency to clear the running line (think post fatality) or if there’s IA.

What's IA? Related to AI????

 

[vikingdriver]

What's IA?

Industrial Action

 

[Goldfish62]

Back in SWT days there was a driver manager who regularly took over the driving of the Reading line train he used to commute to/from work.

I've had the privilege of a cab ride in an HST with another TOC. The driver manager drove the train, having told the driver, who happened to be an ASLEF rep, to go "on the cushions".

 

[St. Paddy]

To be fair there’s plenty of managers at the lower end of the scale, there’s multiple layers between Clare Mann and a driver. That said I think there’s wording in the ASLEF charter that stipulates that only the driver grade will drive a train in passenger service unless it’s an emergency to clear the running line (think post fatality) or if there’s IA.

The Charter is an aspiration, some TOCs like LNER have agreements where their Driver managers routinely drive trains

 

[Goldfish62]

The Charter is an aspiration, some TOCs like LNER have agreements where their Driver managers routinely drive trains

I've just had a read of the Charter on the ASLEF Website.

As it states it's quite clearly a list of aspirations as a framework for negotiation. No mention of who can drive a train.

 

[43066]

Back in SWT days there was a driver manager who regularly took over the driving of the Reading line train he used to commute to/from work.

I've had the privilege of a cab ride in an HST with another TOC. The driver manager drove the train, having told the driver, who happened to be an ASLEF rep, to go "on the cushions".

They have to do a certain amount of driving per month to retain competence, so it’s certainly not unknown in my experience for them to jump into the chair on a train to/from work, which is perhaps what you witnessed.

 

[DMckduck]

To be fair there’s plenty of managers at the lower end of the scale, there’s multiple layers between Clare Mann and a driver. That said I think there’s wording in the ASLEF charter that stipulates that only the driver grade will drive a train in passenger service unless it’s an emergency to clear the running line (think post fatality) or if there’s IA.

They will find a way I'm sure, it will be a single down/up Windsor at worst and I'm sure there will be plenty of trained DIs willing to operate it for 2 hours in return for 12 hours or maybe even more. 1 will run though that's for sure

 

[pompeyfan]

From memory SWR follow the agreement quite closely, although management grade with driving competency are permitted to drive trains as long as the booked driver is still available and not allocated anything else.

 

[Mike_L_Surrey]

I thought that the reason was because the traction supply couldn't cope with peak frequencies all day. At present after the morning peak, the traction supply equipment could cool down between about 10:00 and 15:00 to be ready for the increased demand during the evening peak. If peak frequencies were operated all day substations would overheat.

I’m not sure that’s correct. If the supply equipment can cope with the morning peak of 3 hours(07:00 - 10:00) why would it need to cool down for a whole 5 hours ?

If substations were prone to overheating, then surely it would be a regular issue during summer and that doesn’t seem to be the case.

 

[Carlisle]

I’m not sure that’s correct. If the supply equipment can cope with the morning peak of 3 hours(07:00 - 10:00) why would it need to cool down for a whole 5 hours ?

If substations were prone to overheating, then surely it would be a regular issue during summer and that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Yes, they were my thoughts too, surely the electrical equipment in question is designed to operate safely up to a specified load limit that can’t simply be ignored during morning & evening peaks?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Whilst I can't comment on specifics re sub stations, there were problems shortly after the Desiro fleet was introduced (because, I believe of the increased amount of on train equipment which is continually live) which resulted in the power supply being insufficient for the planned TT/formations at certain locations. This resulted in some services having to be driven in series IIRC until upgrades could be made. It is noticeable how most feeds to the third rail are now double cored (two cables) as opposed to the single cable that was sufficient in slam door days.
Relevant to the discussion about TPH along the Windsor/Reading route(s), I have no idea, but these newer trains are far more juice hungry than their old predecessors.

 

[Goldfish62]

Whilst I can't comment on specifics re sub stations, there were problems shortly after the Desiro fleet was introduced (because, I believe of the increased amount of on train equipment which is continually live) which resulted in the power supply being insufficient for the planned TT/formations at certain locations. This resulted in some services having to be driven in series IIRC until upgrades could be made. It is noticeable how most feeds to the third rail are now double cored (two cables) as opposed to the single cable that was sufficient in slam door days.
Relevant to the discussion about TPH along the Windsor/Reading route(s), I have no idea, but these newer trains are far more juice hungry than their old predecessors.

Service levels have been slashed on the Windsor Lines and the peak service level is now lower than it was at the time of the introduction of the Desiros.

 

[Elecman]

I’m not sure that’s correct. If the supply equipment can cope with the morning peak of 3 hours(07:00 - 10:00) why would it need to cool down for a whole 5 hours ?

If substations were prone to overheating, then surely it would be a regular issue during summer and that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Electrical equipment can be overloaded in the short term by some considerable margin but then must allowed to cool down or damage will occur to insulation ( you have short term (circa 5 minute) ratings medium term (1-2 hours) and continuous ratings which the equipment will stand without damage.
External influences ( summer ) make little or no difference in the UK climate to ratings

 

[Goldfish62]

Electrical equipment can be overloaded in the short term by some considerable margin but then must allowed to cool down or damage will occur to insulation ( you have short term (circa 5 minute) ratings medium term (1-2 hours) and continuous ratings which the equipment will stand without damage.
External influences ( summer ) make little or no difference in the UK climate to ratings

And in any case new and upgraded substations have popped up all the place on the Windsor and Reading lines in the past few years.

But then I know that we're very good on these forums at creating problems where none exists.

 

[swt_passenger]

And in any case new and upgraded substations have popped up all the place on the Windsor and Reading lines in the past few years.

But then I know that we're very good on these forums at creating problems where none exists.

Yes, the CP5 enhancements plan final report included a number of completed power strengthening projects for the 10 car lengthening and 2017 intended timetable. I expect power issues is a bit of a red herring…

 

[Wokingham]

alot of the platform edges will need sanding and repainting properly to aid the onboard doo camera equipment like the elizabeth line has had all the platform edges painted properly with the white line.

 

[Goldfish62]

alot of the platform edges will need sanding and repainting properly to aid the onboard doo camera equipment like the elizabeth line has had all the platform edges painted properly with the white line.

I can't think of any stations on the SWR network without white platform edging.

Sanding???

 

[Wokingham]

they are all painted with a white line but its done with a handroller and slopped everywhere doesnt look great on the camera with the drivers aid equipment

 

[Goldfish62]

they are all painted with a white line but its done with a handroller and slopped everywhere doesnt look great on the camera with the drivers aid equipment

Can't see any difference compared with platforms on Southern, Southeastern, GWR or anywhere else which has DOO/DCO.

How do you suggest the line is applied if not with a roller?

 

[Carlisle]

Electrical equipment can be overloaded in the short term by some considerable margin but then must allowed to cool down or damage will occur to insulation ( you have short term (circa 5 minute) ratings medium term (1-2 hours) and continuous ratings which the equipment will stand without damage.
External influences ( summer ) make little or no difference in the UK climate to ratings

ok cheers for the extra information.

 

[amazon1675]

55 days from today to get one in passenger service...tick tock,tick,tock....

 

[Goldfish62]

Back to 701s, rather than power supplies and painted platform edges, assuming that the one-off trip happens as per speculation what happens then? The units are put back to bed and we continue waiting? And waiting...

 

[Kite159]

55 days from today to get one in passenger service...tick tock,tick,tock....

It will probably be on the 31st December with a 701 running a late notice 'PR' service open to the public between Clapham Junction & London Waterloo, entered on the various online services as a VSTP before running empty to the depot.

 

[Andy1673]

It will probably be on the 31st December with a 701 running a late notice 'PR' service open to the public between Clapham Junction & London Waterloo, entered on the various online services as a VSTP before running empty to the depot.

Well done and then 1st of January SWR will retire all 455s due to their age and all 458s due to... they are 458s.... Sorry for off-topic