Purple aspect on SR Motormen's handlamps.

[Ashley Hill]

A question that has baffled me for years was what was the purple aspect of such a handlamp used to indicate?

 

[Rescars]

Can you give a few more details about these lamps please? Were they oil or electric? What other aspect colours were available?

 

[Ashley Hill]

They were a four aspect paraffin lamp. The colours were red,green,purple and clear. Here’s a picture of one.

Photo GWRA.

 

[Gloster]

The only thing I have been able to find is that at one time the LSWR used a purple headlamp to indicate a special working. I don’t know if this practice continued into the SR era.

There is a British Railway Lamps Facebook group. (I am not on ****book.)

 

[Rescars]

The purple headlamp substitution must be a possibility. From my very limited knowledge of GWR handlamps, the green light was created by the yellow light from the lamp shining through blue glass. Does the colour which shows through the purple glass when the lamp is lit actually show as purple?

 

[The Puddock]

I have a very vague notion lodged in the back of my mind that during the second world war, the colour purple had meaning on the railway which was something to do with air raids. I’ll need to dig out a book to confirm…

 

[Rescars]

The only thing I have been able to find is that at one time the LSWR used a purple headlamp to indicate a special working. I don’t know if this practice continued into the SR era.

There is a British Railway Lamps Facebook group. (I am not on ****book.)

Having done a bit of digging it seems that both the SER and the LCDR used purple headlamps for certain headcodes, but this seems to have ceased by the time the SECR was formed. Seems unlikely such usage would have taken place in the SR era.

I have a very vague notion lodged in the back of my mind that during the second world war, the colour purple had meaning on the railway which was something to do with air raids. I’ll need to dig out a book to confirm…

This suggestion is intriguing. Whatever it's purpose, the purple glass must have had some general application, otherwise there would have been no point in equipping handlamps with it.

 

[Ashley Hill]

There is a British Railway Lamps Facebook group. (I am not on ****book.)

I’m not on FB either.
I’ve seen several pass through auctions over the years and browsing old catalogues hasn’t helped either. Perhaps someone has an old LSWR/SR rule book or appendix,the answer may be in there.

 

[Snow1964]

Was it something to do with calling on when trains were combining.

Although the crawling past an air raid crater, sounds like a more plausible explanations

 

[D6130]

I have a very vague notion lodged in the back of my mind that during the second world war, the colour purple had meaning on the railway which was something to do with air raids. I’ll need to dig out a book to confirm…

Could it be that a purple headlamp was less bright - and therefore less visible to the pilots of enemy aircraft - than a white one?

 

[Lucan]

I'm guessing a calling on signal.

 

[Rescars]

The post is titled Motorman's Handlamp. Could the purple relate to something specific to EMU working? Drawing up during the coupling and splitting of trains perhaps? Who's got access to a SR Appendix?!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Digging through the internet this afternoon proved not only fruitless but also proved how lazy Google can be when searching. The motormen’s lamps and the purple aspect are often mentioned but no explanation given for its use.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

LSWR Steam Loco Headlamps had a purple mask which was carried over the LH buffer when working a special or relief train (not a Race Traffic train, which had their own head signal codes). I can't see why a handlamp would replicate that - each loco carried enough lamps such that there would always be one available. (Just to put the loco lamp angle to bed!)
As to Electric trains - Instruction No. 24 of the 1915 'Instructions Applicable to the Electrified Lines' merely mentions that Head Signals will be white letters on a black background, illuminated at night.
As mentioned above, the colours of the shades were selected to give a true colour from a yellow / orange flame (signal lamps are the same). Maybe it is that simple?
Pat

 

[randyrippley]

I found this thread about use of purple lenses in the USA
A bit over my head, but it may give a clue

Railway Preservation News • View topic - Lantern posts and purple lenses

(note: I'm not going to paste an extract of the thread, it would be meaningless)

 

[Ashley Hill]

As mentioned above, the colours of the shades were selected to give a true colour from a yellow / orange flame (signal lamps are the same). Maybe it is that simple?

But these lamps are 4 aspect so would have the blue lens to make green.

I found this thread about use of purple lenses in the USA
A bit over my head, but it may give a clue

Interesting but if I’ve read it correctly it seems to suggest it had been used as a stop signal until the 1950s.

 

[Rescars]

There appears to be a copy of the 1933 SR rule book on sale through Abe Books if anyone feels inclined to invest. Could be a bit too high level to specify handlamp code colours of course.

However, Rule 50 in the 1950 BR Rule Book specifies a multitude of hand lamp signals. Sadly none of them are purple!

 

[Deepgreen]

Purple would suggest a Royal working...

 

[Dr Hoo]

I've looked out my copy of the Southern Railway General Appendix (and Western 'sectional' appendix) from March 1934.

Tantalisingly this has quite a lot about oil lamps - tail lamps, signal lamps and so on - but apparently nothing about Motormen's lamps.

As an example of lamp use (in darkness, fog or falling snow), when joining EMUs at stations, the Guard of the leading portion had to exhibit a red lamp whilst standing six feet in rear of their train. The Motorman, having been 'called on' by fixed signal, would stop (at least) six feet clear. Once any alighting passengers had cleared the Guard would exhibit a green lamp and the Motorman would buffer up, prior to coupling being effected.

In fog or falling snow a Handsignalman, showing a Yellow lamp, would be positioned 60 feet in rear of the front train as well.

No mention of Purple lamps or of Motormen making any hand signals and any part of the process.

 

[Bungle158]

I remember being told by a crusty old time instructor at guard school, that a purple flag was displayed at signal boxes to denote an air raid in progress.

 

[Springs Branch]

I remember being told by a crusty old time instructor at guard school, that a purple flag was displayed at signal boxes to denote an air raid in progress.

Maybe the full message from the signaller conveyed by that purple flag was . . . "there's an air raid on, and I'm sheltering in my Tin Coffin".

The LMSR came up with a design to provide some protection to Signalmen following a fatality to one of their staff in the Midlands during an air-raid in 1939. . . . .

The ARP Shelters would not have protected the occupant (of the signalbox) from a direct hit, but were designed to provide some protection from shards of flying glass. These ARP shelters were nicknamed ‘Tin Coffins’ by the staff.

The shelter was constructed from 1/4inch steel plate with a steel plate door on two hinges. On each side narrow slots were cut through at eye level to provide some visibility. The interior of the shelter measured five foot tall by two foot square and had a wooden seat positioned 1’ 6” above the floor.

 

[Deepgreen]

A very quick search on line turned up this from an auction site: "LSWR 4 aspect Motorman’s Handlamp featuring the unique purple glass aspect used for limited line movement in the wrong direction. The body is stamped “L&SWR 930”. Complete with LSWR vessel & reflector, SR burner and all glasses. Restored."

 

[Ashley Hill]

A very quick search on line turned up this from an auction site: "LSWR 4 aspect Motorman’s Handlamp featuring the unique purple glass aspect used for limited line movement in the wrong direction. The body is stamped “L&SWR 930”. Complete with LSWR vessel & reflector, SR burner and all glasses. Restored."

So presumably the motorman would display it through the cab window?

 

[Deepgreen]

So presumably the motorman would display it through the cab window?

Possibly, but I would imagine more likely mounted on the normal lamp bracket on the cab front.

 

[Rescars]

A very quick search on line turned up this from an auction site: "LSWR 4 aspect Motorman’s Handlamp featuring the unique purple glass aspect used for limited line movement in the wrong direction. The body is stamped “L&SWR 930”. Complete with LSWR vessel & reflector, SR burner and all glasses. Restored."

Is this unique to LSWR? Pre WW1? Did the use of the purple light extend as third rail electrification spread across the Southern system, I wonder?

Possibly, but I would imagine more likely mounted on the normal lamp bracket on the cab front.

This seems a bit of a performance for a limited movement. I wonder if this applied within station limits.

Possibly, but I would imagine more likely mounted on the normal lamp bracket on the cab front.

The lamp in the photo appears to have a rectangular casing at its rear. Would this accommodate a standard lamp bracket perhaps?

 

[Deepgreen]

Is this unique to LSWR? Pre WW1? Did the use of the purple light extend as third rail electrification spread across the Southern system, I wonder?


This seems a bit of a performance for a limited movement. I wonder if this applied within station limits.


The lamp in the photo appears to have a rectangular casing at its rear. Would this accommodate a standard lamp bracket perhaps?

Indeed, and I wonder if the aspect was used more than very rarely.

 

[Rescars]

Indeed, and I wonder if the aspect was used more than very rarely.

When EMUs were new, it is understandable that operating staff might have appreciated additional insights into which way one of these new-fangled trains was going. No obvious front and back, unlike a steam train!

Perhaps the purple light seemed like a good idea at the time, but dropped out of use when it was found to be onerous and unnecessary.

 

[Deepgreen]

When EMUs were new, it is understandable that operating staff might have appreciated additional insights into which way one of these new-fangled trains was going. No obvious front and back, unlike a steam train!

Perhaps the purple light seemed like a good idea at the time, but dropped out of use when it was found to be onerous and unnecessary.

Possibly, but they still displayed red at the rear and (a form of) white at the front. Where I can see it being useful is to identify that the train was wrong line, but that would have been communicated by signalmen, etc., anyway. It's a fascinating little quirk that I had not been aware of before this thread.

 

[Rescars]

Possibly, but they still displayed red at the rear and (a form of) white at the front. Where I can see it being useful is to identify that the train was wrong line, but that would have been communicated by signalmen, etc., anyway. It's a fascinating little quirk that I had not been aware of before this thread.

Nor I. How would they have coped with reversible lines, I wonder?!

 

[Deepgreen]

Nor I. How would they have coped with reversible lines, I wonder?!

They would not have been required as they could not be running 'wrong line' by definition.