Freightliner Driver Jobs

[Carl98k]

Sorry the auto merge didn't work right.

Aslef comment was aimed at the other post.

Truck fuel industry is a perfect example of race to the bottom.

A green haulage company undercutting other companies and paying there drivers £12 a hour to do fuel tanker work.

On the rail safe first, profit 2nd. Well that's how it should be.

Ah no problem, I did think what’s the ASLEF about . I came from a well know haulage company that paid the drivers poor wages to compete for work. In the end it back fired as they all left for better paying companies. When they were paying you £16 an hour to work 4 weekends on the bounce, and drivers left in droves for £15 ph Monday to Friday work. The wages then increased to £22 ph. Unfortunately the company still has a bad rep due to this.

 

[NorthernTech]

That’s not true, GB have won contracts from DB and others, but under cutting to a loss is a strong statement. Take Peterborough to Felixstowe for example. A DB driver told me they only do one way due to the hours. So that’s 2 drivers to cover a return trip, GB do that in just under 12 hours. If this is true, then this could explain what’s happening.

What happens when the driver‘s get held up and the job goes over 12 hours? Sounds like a lot of fatigue in those jobs, I suppose if you want the higher salary then you take the rough with the smooth.

 

[Carl98k]

What happens when the driver‘s get held up and the job goes over 12 hours? Sounds like a lot of fatigue in those jobs, I suppose if you want the higher salary then you take the rough with the smooth.

You sit at Felixstowe for about 2 hours, then held in places on the way back. So normally enough slack to get back. But I suppose that’s like a 10 hour turn going over 12 due to failure ect.

Some drivers point blank refuse to go over 12 hours, and that’s perfectly fine, some will go over slightly. My core route is up to Doncaster iport, normally sit in there for 3-4 hours waiting for the train to stripped and loaded. I’ve had the odd occasion when I’ve hit 12:45 due to a delay. I see that as one of those things and no one’s fault. And as I’ve been doing nothing for nearly 4 hours, is 45 mins the end of the world? But obviously I’m asked if I’m safe to continue, if not don’t continue. No pressure at all. I wouldn’t say it’s so much the higher salary, it’s more keeling contracts. Especially for the odd 45 minute delay.

 

[43066]

That’s not true, GB have won contracts from DB and others, but under cutting to a loss is a strong statement. Take Peterborough to Felixstowe for example. A DB driver told me they only do one way due to the hours. So that’s 2 drivers to cover a return trip, GB do that in just under 12 hours. If this is true, then this could explain what’s happening.

To be fair if having to roster two drivers versus one is all it takes to make the work unviable that suggests there might well be bigger issues. Are margins really that thin on a train carrying thousands of tonnes of freight?

You sit at Felixstowe for about 2 hours, then held in places on the way back. So normally enough slack to get back. But I suppose that’s like a 10 hour turn going over 12 due to failure ect.

Some drivers point blank refuse to go over 12 hours, and that’s perfectly fine, some will go over slightly. My core route is up to Doncaster iport, normally sit in there for 3-4 hours waiting for the train to stripped and loaded. I’ve had the odd occasion when I’ve hit 12:45 due to a delay. I see that as one of those things and no one’s fault. And as I’ve been doing nothing for nearly 4 hours, is 45 mins the end of the world? But obviously I’m asked if I’m safe to continue, if not don’t continue. No pressure at all. I wouldn’t say it’s so much the higher salary, it’s more keeling contracts. Especially for the odd 45 minute delay.

I can understand where you’re coming from as an individual, because nobody wants to rock the boat, but rostering right up to the limit like that smacks of hidden being paid lip service to by the company for commercial expediency. It’s always going to be a balancing act, but this is the kind of thing ASLEF really should be working with the FOC to reduce.

 

[Carl98k]

To be fair if having to roster two drivers versus one is all it takes to make the work unviable that suggests there might well be bigger issues. Are margins really that thin on a train carrying thousands of tonnes of freight?



I can understand where you’re coming from as an individual, because nobody wants to rock the boat, but rostering right up to the limit like that smacks of hidden being paid lip service to by the company for commercial expediency. It’s always going to be a balancing act, but this is the kind of thing ASLEF really should be working with the FOC to reduce.

Apparently it’s the last few box’s that make the profit, so if that’s the case you can see why it could eat in to profit.

I agree, full 12 hour shifts can be a pain in the arse. However, I’ve also had some nice little 6 and 10 hour shifts, so I just take the rough with the smooth. I find his job much less fatiguing than driving a petrol tanker. They were 12 hours all the time, and apart from a 45 minute break it was non stop. So I think it depends what you’re use to doing

 

[12LDA28C]

Apparently it’s the last few box’s that make the profit

I believe that's the case on many freight flows.

 

[Actonman]

May I draw attention to the RAIB report into the incident at Loversall Carr, where one (GBRF) train hit the back of another that had been stopped in a (legitimate) but unusual location.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...5d/R082023_230803_Loversall_Carr_Junction.pdf

The report notes that the driver involved in the accident had been working for consecutive shifts of 9 ½ to 12 hours plus 2 hours’ drive each shift. Had he not had the mishap he was rostered for 9 consecutive days, nearly 95 hours + 18 hours road driving, because he was working most rest days. Other drivers were working even more rest days.

 

[NorthernTech]

May I draw attention to the RAIB report into the incident at Loversall Carr, where one (GBRF) train hit the back of another that had been stopped in a (legitimate) but unusual location.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...5d/R082023_230803_Loversall_Carr_Junction.pdf

The report notes that the driver involved in the accident had been working for consecutive shifts of 9 ½ to 12 hours plus 2 hours’ drive each shift. Had he not had the mishap he was rostered for 9 consecutive days, nearly 95 hours + 18 hours road driving, because he was working most rest days. Other drivers were working even more rest days.

That’s ridiculous! Why is that even allowed in such a potentially dangerous line of work?! Crazy hours.. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of that for GBRf.

 

[train_lover]

Not sure this is entirely accurate. It's my understanding that some of DB's competitors, particularly DCR and GBRf have undercut DB's (commercially reasonable) quotes for some traffic flows to such an extent that they have won the contract off DB but are running the flows at zero profit or even a loss. There's no way DB can possibly compete with that and nor should they.

This is complete tosh. GB have taken a lot of work from DB and yet, GB are making a healthy profit where DB couldn't. If what you are saying is true then money would run out quickly for both DCR and GB, but it's simply not the case. As with my original comment, aslef put the noose around DB neck.

 

[Carl98k]

May I draw attention to the RAIB report into the incident at Loversall Carr, where one (GBRF) train hit the back of another that had been stopped in a (legitimate) but unusual location.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...5d/R082023_230803_Loversall_Carr_Junction.pdf

The report notes that the driver involved in the accident had been working for consecutive shifts of 9 ½ to 12 hours plus 2 hours’ drive each shift. Had he not had the mishap he was rostered for 9 consecutive days, nearly 95 hours + 18 hours road driving, because he was working most rest days. Other drivers were working even more rest days.

I’ve seen the report. The driver was tired and he said he was fit to continue.

Firstly he should have said no I’m not safe, and if you read the report fully he’d failed to complete a running brake test. I’m not sure how he’d managed to do so many rest days, that’s been nipped in the bud. When you say 2 hours drive? Do you mean during the shift or commute? I personally don’t think 9.5 hours is a long shift. 12 hour days are fine, it’s the 12 hour nights which I believe all FOCs do. And the 22:00+ book on times that cause the issues.

Again that’s only my personal views

 

[66250]

I’ve seen the report. The driver was tired and he said he was fit to continue.

Firstly he should have said no I’m not safe, and if you read the report fully he’d failed to complete a running brake test. I’m not sure how he’d managed to do so many rest days, that’s been nipped in the bud. When you say 2 hours drive? Do you mean during the shift or commute? I personally don’t think 9.5 hours is a long shift. 12 hour days are fine, it’s the 12 hour nights which I believe all FOCs do. And the 22:00+ book on times that cause the issues.

Again that’s only my personal views

At DB turns booking on between 2300 and 0400 are maximum 9h30

 

[Wrexhamfc]

At DB turns booking on between 2300 and 0400 are maximum 9h30

That's because DB drivers are famously militant and walk off the job without much provocation, hence why they've managed to get the best T&C's but made their company unprofitable which has led to 20%~25% of their drivers being made redundant this Christmas.

 

[43066]

That's because DB drivers are famously militant and walk off the job without much provocation, hence why they've managed to get the best T&C's but made their company unprofitable which has led to 20%~25% of their drivers being made redundant this Christmas.

If the business can’t be profitable without rostering safety critical staff to frankly dangerously fatiguing work patterns, there’s something fundamentally wrong.

 

[Wrexhamfc]

If the business can’t be profitable without rostering safety critical staff to frankly dangerously fatiguing work patterns, there’s something fundamentally wrong.

I'm guessing you've never worked for GB then, because I don't think you know what you are talking about

 

[43066]

I'm guessing you've never worked for GB then, because I don't think you know what you are talking about

As a qualified train driver for eight years I know plenty about being fatigued at work, I can assure you. It’s a problem in this industry, especially on the freight side of things. I can also read the accident report posted upthread…

Personally I wouldn’t want to ever work for a company imposing Ts and Cs like that on its workforce.

 

[Wrexhamfc]

As a qualified train driver for eight years I know plenty about being fatigued at work, I can assure you. It’s a problem in this industry, especially on the freight side of things. I can also read the accident report posted upthread…

So not a freight driver then.

 

[43066]

So not a freight driver then.

Nope. I know a few, though. They all agree fatigue and rostering is an issue. I doubt they’re wrong based on what’s been posted above…

 

[Wrexhamfc]

If the business can’t be profitable without rostering safety critical staff to frankly dangerously fatiguing work patterns, there’s something fundamentally wrong.

Freightliner have turns that book on between 23:00 and 04:00, those turns are longer than 9:30hrs and Freightliner have a very good safety record.

 

[66250]

That's because DB drivers are famously militant and walk off the job without much provocation, hence why they've managed to get the best T&C's but made their company unprofitable which has led to 20%~25% of their drivers being made redundant this Christmas.

75 out of 760 odd is about 10% by my maths, all of whom are leaving voluntarily with a nice fat payoff. DB and Freightliner drivers prefer to work for companies who put safety over profit

 

[Wrexhamfc]

This is complete tosh. GB have taken a lot of work from DB and yet, GB are making a healthy profit where DB couldn't. If what you are saying is true then money would run out quickly for both DCR and GB, but it's simply not the case. As with my original comment, aslef put the noose around DB neck.

GB make a healthy profit by being ruthless. They flog their staff hard. Rumor has it that they put in a very low bid for a Port contract and a few months later said "we can't do it for that money".

Anybody know why GB didn't get the Mendip contract?

75 out of 760 odd is about 10% by my maths, all of whom are leaving voluntarily with a nice fat payoff. DB and Freightliner drivers prefer to work for companies who put safety over profit

I'm guessing you won't be working for GB or Freightliner in the future then?

 

[43066]

Freightliner have turns that book on between 23:00 and 04:00, those turns are longer than 9:30hrs and Freightliner have a very good safety record.

The safety record may be partially down to the fact that freight incidents tend to be lower profile due to not involving members of the public (and is it “good”? By which measure?). Rostering of that type is inevitably going to be fatiguing (even according to the ORR’s own fatigue management documentation) and probably isn’t in accordance with industry best practice.

Do you have any evidence for your assertion that DB’s driver Ts and Cs (as opposed to wider economic factors etc.) are what “has made the company unprofitable”. Are you a FL or GB driver yourself? If so, can you imagine why it might suit management of these companies to push a certain line about Ts and Cs?

 

[66701GBRF]

GB also have a condition where if you book on between 20:01 and 22:59 you can't be safety critical after 08:00 unless the turn is 10hrs or less. Similarly if you book on between 23:00 and 02:59 the turn is restricted to 10 hours. Fatigue management goes both ways, you may get asked to cover jobs but if you agree to working rest days, particularly lots of them, then the responsibility is down to you.

 

[train_lover]

GB make a healthy profit by being ruthless. They flog their staff hard. Rumor has it that they put in a very low bid for a Port contract and a few months later said "we can't do it for that money".

I'm a driver for GB and I can't say the shifts are any worse than what I did at London Midland. I don't know if you are a driver or not but no matter who you work for you always hear horror stories about other companies. The fact of the matter is every company has its own set of problems.

I'm not just saying it but I've not heard that and to be honest I find it hard to believe. GB seem to have a solid sales team who are arguably the best in the business. But they can only sell around our terms and conditions. As I've said previously it must be impossible for the DB sales team to be competitive with the terms and conditions they have in place.

 

[Evolution]

After reading this post, maybe I will not moan in future when I get a 9 hour 30 minute job and think I'm hard done by!

On a serious note- quite a few left the TOC I work at to go to FL and a few to GB, some love it and others hate it and are in the process of coming back to passenger work. For some it was a culture shock with the extreme and longer shifts. Freight work wouldn't be for me personally, I like the TOC comforts, nicer cabs, more socialable, stable shift patterns, better pension, travel benefits etc. It's interesting to hear the ins and outs of it though!

 

[Callmo]

I think what hasn’t helped DB compared to the other FOCs is increasing rest time between shifts to 14 hours from 12, which has massively changed the way the roster can be done, and made it much more difficult for them.

Every FOC has its negatives, you just either get used to it or go to a passenger company Most people who moan about GB in particular have never worked for them!

 

[Carl98k]

At DB turns booking on between 2300 and 0400 are maximum 9h30

GB is max 10 hours between 23:00 and 02:00

I think what hasn’t helped DB compared to the other FOCs is increasing rest time between shifts to 14 hours from 12, which has massively changed the way the roster can be done, and made it much more difficult for them.

Every FOC has its negatives, you just either get used to it or go to a passenger company Most people who moan about GB in particular have never worked for them

I think what hasn’t helped DB compared to the other FOCs is increasing rest time between shifts to 14 hours from 12, which has massively changed the way the roster can be done, and made it much more difficult for them.

Every FOC has its negatives, you just either get used to it or go to a passenger company Most people who moan about GB in particular have never worked for them!

100%. All drivers moan, regardless of the TOC/FOC. I worked as a petrol tanker for BP before joining the railway. I can assure you every shift was 12 hours, including a 45 min break. Not sitting around for 3/4 hours getting loaded. I’m much less fatigued driving for GB than I was for BP. Unpopular opinion inbound, but maybe drivers have been on the railway that long they forget what it’s like to actually get hammered on a 12 hour shift.

 

[43066]

100%. All drivers moan, regardless of the TOC/FOC

Well that’s certainly true.

Unpopular opinion inbound, but maybe drivers have been on the railway that long they forget what it’s like to actually get hammered on a 12 hour shift.

But the other way of looking at that is that you’re now doing a much more highly skilled and responsible job, moving many thousands of tonnes per shift versus (40 max?) on a road tanker.

Forget being a tanker driver who’s become train driver, and realise you’re now a train driver who used to drive trucks. Look up, not down.

 

[Carl98k]

Well that’s certainly true.



But the other way of looking at that is that you’re now doing a much more highly skilled and responsible job, moving many thousands of tonnes per shift versus (40 max?) on a road tanker.

Forget being a tanker driver who’s become train driver, and realise you’re now a train driver who used to drive trucks.

I mean while I mostly agree, loading and delivering petrol isn’t as straightforward as people think. It’s so easy to make a mistake, especially when tired.

And yes, tanker driver turned train driver, but I stand by my comment, I’m less fatigued now……thank fully

 

[43066]

I mean while I mostly agree, loading and delivering petrol isn’t as straightforward as people think. It’s so easy to make a mistake, especially when tired.

Not to diminish your previous role, but what you’re doing now is orders of magnitude different. A tanker train came through a station close to where I live the other day, some googling revealed it’s Heathrow’s supply of aviation fuel for a reasonable period. Driven by one train driver…

And yes, tanker driver turned train driver, but I stand by my comment, I’m less fatigued now……thank fully

Shows you’ve made the right move .

 

[berwicksfinest]

That’s not true, GB have won contracts from DB and others, but under cutting to a loss is a strong statement. Take Peterborough to Felixstowe for example. A DB driver told me they only do one way due to the hours. So that’s 2 drivers to cover a return trip, GB do that in just under 12 hours. If this is true, then this could explain what’s happening.

I'm at Peterborough and I really think this Driver is incorrect, Nothing to do with hours !!! Its for terminal time unfortunately DB don't get a choice when they can run in and out, we have to have our slots, and unfortunately the terminal time is too great for one driver to cover.