Landslip at Crewkerne Tunnel - West of England Line closed.

[Irascible]

Give the entire route to GWR not sure if GW running both routes to Exeter is actually worse than SWR repeatedly abandoning it.

 

[pompeyfan]

I’m not sure how giving the route to GWR would miraculously improve everything. It’s the same infrastructure, the same fleet, the only benefit of GWR running between Exeter and Salisbury would be the fact there would be a crew depot at Exeter and not having to taxi crew from either Salisbury or Yeovil to Exeter. You’d also potentially lose through services to places beyond Salisbury. I’m not sure Exeter would have sufficient capacity to maintain an extra ~10 3 car trains.

 

[embers25]

No but GWR don't just abandon passengers like SWR regularly do west of Yeovil. SWR should have their franchise stripped over this and their continued awful performance. Why should passengers suffer due to their awful service. Constant dirty trains, late trains, cancelled trains and total lack of interest in services beyond Yeovil.

Today they scheduled rail replacement buses that didn't connect with trains and the few that did didnt wait 5 mins when the train was late arriving. Timetables Basingstoke to Weymouth were comically bad today. Also, they keep timetabling journeys on buses with journey times that are impossible.

 

[pompeyfan]

No but GWR don't just abandon passengers like SWR regularly do west of Yeovil. SWR should have their franchise stripped over this and their continued awful performance. Why should passengers suffer due to their awful service. Constant dirty trains, late trains, cancelled trains and total lack of interest in services beyond Yeovil.

Today they scheduled rail replacement buses that didn't connect with trains and the few that did didnt wait 5 mins when the train was late arriving. Timetables Basingstoke to Weymouth were comically bad today. Also, they keep timetabling journeys on buses with journey times that are impossible.

With the exception of the dirty trains, the majority of the issues are caused by either the weather or the infrastructure and the single track sections, how would giving the route to GWR improve this?

I’m not disputing that passengers west of Salisbury have an absolute raw deal but I can’t see how painting the trains green would suddenly provide an improved service. I’m open to realistic suggestions.

 

[embers25]

I agree the single track is an issue but, ever since the depot opened at Junction, cancellations west of Yeovil have gone up and Junction is the worst place to be dumped, particularly since the cafe closed. Often you are given no warning. At least at Salisbury you can escape via Westbury and it has facilities. Also extra delays that creep in due to crew changes at Junction magnify delays across the line. As a minimum they need to add waiting time at Junction to allow for crew changes.

The main difference comes down to if the same company ran both lines then ticket acceptance wouldn't be such a fight.

 

[RPI]

I’m not sure how giving the route to GWR would miraculously improve everything. It’s the same infrastructure, the same fleet, the only benefit of GWR running between Exeter and Salisbury would be the fact there would be a crew depot at Exeter and not having to taxi crew from either Salisbury or Yeovil to Exeter. You’d also potentially lose through services to places beyond Salisbury. I’m not sure Exeter would have sufficient capacity to maintain an extra ~10 3 car trains.

Splitting the service at Yeovil would, these days, be a vast improvement. Trying to run an hourly long distance service over a single track line with limited passing places just doesn't work anymore, west of Yeovil I'd bet a fair whack that the vast majority of traffic is commuter and leisure traffic between East Devon and Exeter and it's become hideously unreliable because a delay at Clapham Junction (for example) can then have a huge knock on effect and totally destroy the service at the West end of the line, only running as a local service from Yeovil Downwards would improve performance drastically and as you say, the flexibility of crews based at Exeter who also don't have terms that mean they cant be relived at somewhere like Axminster, for the people who live along this route it has become unbearable over the past few years, something really does need to change.

Staff at Exeter are constantly facing abuse because they're left totally helpless when the weekly "chuck the towel in west of Salisbury" occurs, when all that SWR will say is "don't travel", "book your own taxi and claim it back", how is a young family meant to stump up £75 for a taxi back to Axminster when they got the train down in the morning and have now been left stranded? It doesn't matter that they will eventually get it back, they don't have it to stump up in the first place.

With the exception of the dirty trains, the majority of the issues are caused by either the weather or the infrastructure and the single track sections, how would giving the route to GWR improve this?

I’m not disputing that passengers west of Salisbury have an absolute raw deal but I can’t see how painting the trains green would suddenly provide an improved service. I’m open to realistic suggestions.

It's not painting them green, it's being managed from Exeter that would make the difference, even last week the AOM was able to operate what would be 5L90 empty back from Axminster as a passenger service to try and help out, it is so bad at the West end of the WoE at the moment.

 

[Starmill]

With the exception of the dirty trains, the majority of the issues are caused by either the weather or the infrastructure and the single track sections, how would giving the route to GWR improve this?

With respect, the lack of / very slow provision of ticket acceptance and replacement buses, plus the penny-pinching on train crew availability do not have anything to do with the weather, single track sections or infrastructure reliability. These are the central complaints against SWR: the absence of contingency planning.

I’m not disputing that passengers west of Salisbury have an absolute raw deal but I can’t see how painting the trains green would suddenly provide an improved service. I’m open to realistic suggestions.

I don't think it matters whether the trains change or don't but it's blooming obvious there should be a pool of Exeter based crew who can work to Salisbury and back. Whether they're GWR or SWR is neither here nor there. An additional one or two units to the GWR fleet used in a mixed pool is also perfectly practical.

The only reason we're in this mess is the standard penny-pinching approach to British public services.

 

[Annetts key]

Give the entire route to GWR not sure if GW running both routes to Exeter is actually worse than SWR repeatedly abandoning it.

I’ve a much better idea, give the entire mainland railway network to me. Under my administration there would be no more separate TOCs, far less interference from government, and I would work with the staff and the unions, not fight with them.

Of course, government is never going to let GWR take over SWR (aren’t they both First Group Companies anyway) let alone let someone like me take control of the railways.

 

[pompeyfan]

Splitting the service at Yeovil would, these days, be a vast improvement. Trying to run an hourly long distance service over a single track line with limited passing places just doesn't work anymore, west of Yeovil I'd bet a fair whack that the vast majority of traffic is commuter and leisure traffic between East Devon and Exeter and it's become hideously unreliable because a delay at Clapham Junction (for example) can then have a huge knock on effect and totally destroy the service at the West end of the line, only running as a local service from Yeovil Downwards would improve performance drastically and as you say, the flexibility of crews based at Exeter who also don't have terms that mean they cant be relived at somewhere like Axminster, for the people who live along this route it has become unbearable over the past few years, something really does need to change.

Staff at Exeter are constantly facing abuse because they're left totally helpless when the weekly "chuck the towel in west of Salisbury" occurs, when all that SWR will say is "don't travel", "book your own taxi and claim it back", how is a young family meant to stump up £75 for a taxi back to Axminster when they got the train down in the morning and have now been left stranded? It doesn't matter that they will eventually get it back, they don't have it to stump up in the first place.


It's not painting them green, it's being managed from Exeter that would make the difference, even last week the AOM was able to operate what would be 5L90 empty back from Axminster as a passenger service to try and help out, it is so bad at the West end of the WoE at the moment.

I’ve read your whole post and agree mostly with what you’re saying, however I’m not sure there is the platform capacity at Yeovil to reliably split the journey there.

With respect, the lack of / very slow provision of ticket acceptance and replacement buses, plus the penny-pinching on train crew availability do not have anything to do with the weather, single track sections or infrastructure reliability. These are the central complaints against SWR: the absence of contingency planning.


I don't think it matters whether the trains change or don't but it's blooming obvious there should be a pool of Exeter based crew who can work to Salisbury and back. Whether they're GWR or SWR is neither here nor there. An additional one or two units to the GWR fleet used in a mixed pool is also perfectly practical.

I don’t know enough regarding the buses and ticket acceptance to be able to comment but I take on board what you’re saying. The traincrew penny pinching I would imagine is actually coming from above SWR.

Regarding Exeter crew, although it would help in this situation, it could also cause other issues that prevent terminating short at Honiton if there was an issue at somewhere like Pinhoe, as you may not have crew to take the service back towards Salisbury as they’re due relief at the end of duty at Exeter etc which would impact on service recovery.

Just my uneducated thoughts

 

[Starmill]

I’ve read your whole post and agree mostly with what you’re saying, however I’m not sure there is the platform capacity at Yeovil to reliably split the journey there.



I don’t know enough regarding the buses and ticket acceptance to be able to comment but I take on board what you’re saying. The traincrew penny pinching I would imagine is actually coming from above SWR.

Regarding Exeter crew, although it would help in this situation, it could also cause other issues that prevent terminating short at Honiton if there was an issue at somewhere like Pinhoe, as you may not have crew to take the service back towards Salisbury as they’re due relief at the end of duty at Exeter etc which would impact on service recovery.

Just my uneducated thoughts

I would suggest it's quite practical for a small pool of GWR crew to learn the route all the way to Salisbury and have a small amount of booked work that way. Would only call for a handful of extra crew over those who currently work via Yeovil Junction anyway. The cost of this would be minimal but the economic benefit in keeping the service going would be well worthwhile. However the current government would probably rather the line close completely than actually fund it properly. I can't possibly imagine it'd leave SWR in a position where any of their depots have over-recruited by more than one or two positions, which is not really a problem.

 

[RPI]

I’ve read your whole post and agree mostly with what you’re saying, however I’m not sure there is the platform capacity at Yeovil to reliably split the journey there.



I don’t know enough regarding the buses and ticket acceptance to be able to comment but I take on board what you’re saying. The traincrew penny pinching I would imagine is actually coming from above SWR.

Regarding Exeter crew, although it would help in this situation, it could also cause other issues that prevent terminating short at Honiton if there was an issue at somewhere like Pinhoe, as you may not have crew to take the service back towards Salisbury as they’re due relief at the end of duty at Exeter etc which would impact on service recovery.

Just my uneducated thoughts

I mean, we're getting into the realms of speculation now, but I wouldn't have thought it would be much of an issue as there are siding that can also be sued for stabling.

The ticket acceptance is non existent, there is zero rail replacement at the moment or zero ticket acceptance, for over a week. We're not talking about a small branch line here, were talking of five significant towns (I include Cranbrook in that) being linked to a significant City, a service that is normally hourly and very well used, with very few alternative options.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

If a loop is built at Cranbrook, then GWR could run a local 'Devon Metro' service to Axminster (as an extension of Barnstaple / Okehampton services) whilst SWR still run the Waterloo 'express' service. There is significant London traffic from Honiton eastwards so I don't favour withdrawing the through service.

 

[RPI]

If a loop is built at Cranbrook, then GWR could run a local 'Devon Metro' service to Axminster (as an extension of Barnstaple / Okehampton services) whilst SWR still run the Waterloo 'express' service. There is significant London traffic from Honiton eastwards so I don't favour withdrawing the through service.

That is the ultimate plan, a loop there and extending Honiton Loop. But there is quite often no service at the moment, a lot from east Devon now drive to Tiverton Parkway or Taunton and a lot from Yeovil/Sherborne drive to Castle Cary.

 

[30907]

If a loop is built at Cranbrook, then GWR could run a local 'Devon Metro' service to Axminster (as an extension of Barnstaple / Okehampton services) whilst SWR still run the Waterloo 'express' service.

...which of course is what DCC want.

There is, relatively speaking, a traffic desert (and/or county boundary) between Axminster and Yeovil, but I'm also not convinced that splitting the through service is sensible, unless you do something creative like Exeter-Pen Mill-Weymouth.

Going back to my days at Waterloo, I don't recall that operating the line from the Exeter end, as happened pre NSE, was that brilliant

 

[vikingdriver]

Just to address a few points….

The SWR diesel fleet is no longer compatible in passenger service with other sprinter fleets due to modifications made to the fleet. They can still run together in an emergency rescue situation but mitigations need to be applied.

Regarding an Axminster shuttle, it would need additional crew as you wouldn’t be able to taxi the crew booked from Yeovil Junction and get them there in time. Due to the T&Cs in the drivers contracts, driver changeover cannot be at Axminster, they have to be at Exeter St David’s which adds significant time on. The only feasible way of running any shuttle service would rely completely on overtime and create additional diagrams. When it’s done pre arranged it can be diagramed accordingly, short notice it cannot be.

Just to point out we regularly change crew at Axminster during engineering work, drivers and guards.

 

[RPI]

Just to point out we regularly change crew at Axminster during engineering work, drivers and guards.

That's interesting to hear, so an Axminster-Exeter shuttle is feasible.

 

[vikingdriver]

That's interesting to hear, so an Axminster-Exeter shuttle is feasible.

Potentially yes, though I doubt possible during the action short of strike.

 

[dciuk]

Applogies if some of this is off topic, but reading through this thread, I have some questions:

When did the depot at Yeovil Junction open and what in terms of maintenance/refueling is done there? I thought that previously the line was run entirely by Salisbury crews, normally changing crew at Salisbury with a night shift 6 nights a week where the crew would work the last Exeter service of the day, remain on the unit in the sidings overnight (or in the staff rest area at Exeter) and then operate the first train (05:10) in the morning. If an additional depot was thought necessary, would Exeter not have made more sense?

What logic is there is having terms and conditions that prevent crew change over at stations nearer to their depot (ie Axminster) instead of Exeter St Davids which is the furthest away at the west end of the line.

Yeovil Junction has 2 platforms, so if it was decided to split the service there I would have thought one could be used for the local service to and from Exeter while the other could be use for the service to/from Waterloo, not that I support splitting the service as that would loose many through journey opportunities

I am sure there were plans at one time to transfer the route to Wessex Trains and if that had happened presumably GWR would now be running both routes between Exeter and London

I often used to travel between Exeter and Waterloo several years ago and at that time I would have more confidence of arriving on time that I would if I was travelling to/from Paddington. Things seemed to go downhill once SWR took over the franchise from SWT. Luckily for me by that time I was travelling the route less frequently

 

[geoffk]

Potentially yes, though I doubt possible during the action short of strike.

Hasn't that finished now? GWR website says "There could be disruption from Friday 1 to Saturday 9 December due to industrial action short of a strike".

I've seen a press release from SWR which says "Tomorrow (i.e. Monday 11th), we expect to run train services between London Waterloo and Yeovil Junction and are examining the possibility of a very limited shuttle service between Axminster and Exeter St David's in the morning and evening. We have also requested rail replacement bus services to run between Axminster and Exeter St David's." Some improvement, I suppose (my italics).

 

[vikingdriver]

Hasn't that finished now? GWR website says "There could be disruption from Friday 1 to Saturday 9 December due to industrial action short of a strike". OK there might be some disruption tomorrow morning if stock is in the wrong place.

Yes it finished like you say on Saturday 9th. Now it's over, looking at Real Time Trains there are trains planned to run tomorrow between Axminster and Exeter.

 

[Taunton]

it's being managed from Exeter that would make the difference, even last week the AOM was able to operate what would be 5L90 empty back from Axminster as a passenger service to try and help out, it is so bad at the West end of the WoE at the moment.

Those of us with long memories will recall exactly the same words, but the other way round, when the Western Region ran the line from the Exeter end with diesel locos, how useless it was doing that, and how great it would be if run from Waterloo and Salisbury by the Southern with a different, competing management ...

 

[pompeyfan]

Just to point out we regularly change crew at Axminster during engineering work, drivers and guards.

I knew guards changed over at Axminster, but thought drivers had to be at recognised points with adequate facilities, which Axminster didn’t have? a lot of the diagrams I’ve seen had driver taxi to Exeter for this reason, so to hear something conflicting from someone I assume is a driver is interesting.

 

[RPI]

There are now some trains showing on RTT between Axminster and Exeter, fingers crossed!

 

[embers25]

But still nothing Yeovil to Axminster and no ticket acceptance or buses.

 

[Three-Nine]

Please don't take the times in RTT as any kind of official schedule, note that its showing the leaf clearance as operating which would be a quite a feat at present to say the least. SWR official line is "Do Not Travel" between Yeovil and Exeter. From what I've been hearing its highly likely the times in RTT are not accurate, at least at time of typing.

 

[embers25]

Comically Nat Rail are using thd hashtag #Pinhoe fof disruption even though this is all Crewkerne but they don't want to be seen to highlight the failings of network rail at Crewkerne

 

[vikingdriver]

I knew guards changed over at Axminster, but thought drivers had to be at recognised points with adequate facilities, which Axminster didn’t have? a lot of the diagrams I’ve seen had driver taxi to Exeter for this reason, so to hear something conflicting from someone I assume is a driver is interesting.

Unless it's changed very recently! During the recent Yeovil to Axminster blockade there were certainly drivers taxied to Axminster. Some went to Exeter as well. Those may be linked to drivers required to have a grub break which would have to be at Exeter.

 

[RPI]

Well, one has run! Interestingly it ran ECS from Yeovil to Axminster via Crewkerne but timed to take about an hour, so must have run through the blockade at a vastly reduced speed, then ran in service from Axminster to Exeter, has just left Pinhoe.

 

[Three-Nine]

Yes, and that may be the only one today. The GWR Barnstaple to Axminster (2L92) might be the only other one.

 

[Starmill]

But still nothing Yeovil to Axminster and no ticket acceptance or buses.

There has been ample time now to put one or more of these into place. Senior management at SWR should be held to account over why neither have been arranged. I agree there's a slim possibility that there's some genuine reason, but if there is they should go on the record and state it.

One informed source suggested to me that for a period of time recently the taxi firm based in Yeovil who SWR were using had blocked their account except for pre-paid journeys, and sent a letter before claim to SWR threatening county court over several thousand pounds in unpaid taxi bills.