LNER were seriously proposing airline style check-in for rail travel?!

[midland1]

How many staff would you need to check in say 500 passengers for a train due to depart in the next 30 mins?

 

[birchesgreen]

Why would you need to check in on a train? Would we have to go through security and take our belts off first? Perhaps they could have a duty free shop at New Street?

 

[thedbdiboy]

The BR APT-P trains built in the late 1970s were designed around an airline style experience and the idea was certainly afloat then that there would be a reservation/check-in experience if the fully fledged service had ever got off the ground (so to speak...). They only had one (power) door per vehicle per side. I had an APT luggage tag at some point, I think it may still be in a box somewhere...

 

[wezmerc]

Would love to know more about what on earth they were proposing, so I've spun out another thread as it's gone way off the compulsory reservation thing that Grand Central and LNER are doing.

Can you elaborate on what this utterly ridiculous proposal was entailing?

Thanks.

P

 

[185143]

Why would you need to check in on a train? Would we have to go through security and take our belts off first? Perhaps they could have a duty free shop at New Street?

I mean, they could...

But it would serve of no use whatsoever to LNER passengers would it

 

[Bluejays]

I could see the value of this as strictly seperate and additional services. Non stop London to Edinburgh for instance. I think there'd definitely be a market for it and it could be useful.

But the idea of turning normal services into this kind of system. Utterly crazy. The ability to turn up and go is an important part of the system and should be protected

 

[hux385]

I could see Lumo doing this, but it wouldn't work for LNER

 

[LlanishenBull]

Who benefits the most from long check in times at airports? The huge corporations in whose dull chains people spend money before their flights depart.

I'd imagine those corporations would love the same principle to apply to mainline rail stations.

 

[riceuten]

There's a lot to unpack here. Check in on trains is not a new thing - Eurostar in the UK for instance.

But check in for domestic high speed trains ? Renfe has been doing this for ages - often, like in Valencia, in a segregated area of the station where your luggage is x-rayed as welll. SNCF has it at numerous stations, and for the low cost high speed operate Ouigo.

There is an issue where the train stops at unbarriered stations - where anyone can join - presuming this is done for security reasons and/or fare avoidance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But check in for domestic high speed trains ? Renfe has been doing this for ages - often, like in Valencia, in a segregated area of the station where your luggage is x-rayed as welll. SNCF has it at numerous stations, and for the low cost high speed operate Ouigo.

I know they do the security thing (and long may that nonsense remain absent from other countries), but showing a ticket to get into a particular area isn't really check-in and it's done at most major UK stations.

The OP on the other thread hasn't clarified beyond being asked how long they'd be willing to arrive before departure, though.

 

[benbristow]

Surely this would be like DB’s Komfort Check In, where it’s an optional service available for those with pre booked tickets to ‘check in’ to their seat or any other seat on that train. That gets sent pretty much instantly to the guard/revenue staff telling them that the person in for example coach B seat 12 has a valid ticket, which means they skip past you when doing a ticket check and you don’t get disturbed.
If that is what LNER have in mind then it’s actually not a bad idea at all. I used DB’s Komfort Check In on an ICE in October, it worked as intended and was easy to use even as a Brit who was unfamiliar with the DB app.

Mandatory check in like at an airport or on Eurostar would never work. For it to work LNER would need segregated platforms at every station, it simply isn’t viable and would do nothing but drive people off rail and onto the roads.

"Thanks for checking in to this LNER Azuma, would you fancy us to deliver a bacon roll to your seat for only £3?"

 

[Skie]

If TOCs want to operate like airlines then they can give me £220 each time they cancel a train.

 

[SussexSeagull]

I am not sure it is practical but I was up in Nottingham to watch the football last month and the train back to London I was booked on was so full with passengers who were, I assume (and no one was able to get down the train to check tickets so we will never know), legitimately on the train that people who had advanced tickets for that service couldn't get on.

I suspect they would have been in favour of a check in system at that point.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

As one who's never flown and has never even been inside an airport, can anyone tell me how the concept of a "check-in" works on domestic flights? Surely it's just a question of showing your travel documents to a member of airport staff and then being allowed through a gate to board your mode of transport shortly before departure, in other words pretty much the same as showing your rail ticket to someone on the gate at a rail station?

 

[sprunt]

As one who's never flown and has never even been inside an airport, can anyone tell me how the concept of a "check-in" works on domestic flights? Surely it's just a question of showing your travel documents to a member of airport staff and then being allowed through a gate to board your mode of transport shortly before departure, in other words pretty much the same as showing your rail ticket to someone on the gate at a rail station?

It doesn't really differ between domestic and international flights. You have to check in (these days typically online, previously at a desk in the airport) which is essentially saying "Yes, I intend to use the ticket I bought." At this stage, you'll be allocated a seat (assuming you didn't pay extra to select one when you bought the ticket) and issued with a boarding pass - on paper if you're checking in at the airport, in some electronic form if you're checking in online (within the app if you're using one, as a pdf if you're using the airline's website). The boarding pass is what you show at the gate to be allowed on to the plane, but you don't get it when you buy the ticket, only when you check in and there will be a cut-off point before the departure time by which time you must have checked in.

 

[fandroid]

As one who's never flown and has never even been inside an airport, can anyone tell me how the concept of a "check-in" works on domestic flights? Surely it's just a question of showing your travel documents to a member of airport staff and then being allowed through a gate to board your mode of transport shortly before departure, in other words pretty much the same as showing your rail ticket to someone on the gate at a rail station?

That's about it really. On most airlines, it's also the time when you get your seat allocation confirmed. If you have hold baggage then that's the time when the bags get weighed and labelled so that they can identify the owner, and remove the bags later if you don't actually get on board the plane (basic security measure).

 

[edwin_m]

The BR APT-P trains built in the late 1970s were designed around an airline style experience and the idea was certainly afloat then that there would be a reservation/check-in experience if the fully fledged service had ever got off the ground (so to speak...).

I've an idea this was due to concern about the effect of tilting on standing passengers.

That's about it really. On most airlines, it's also the time when you get your seat allocation confirmed. If you have hold baggage then that's the time when the bags get weighed and labelled so that they can identify the owner, and remove the bags later if you don't actually get on board the plane (basic security measure).

You show a boarding pass to be allowed into the security queue, so must have checked in first. I presume the airlines have access to this information so can tell who is on the way and who hasn't shown up yet. This will allow them (if they're that kind of airline) to trigger one of those announcements "will passenger X please proceed immediately to gate Y where their flight is now closing".

As others have suggested, with no security checks, a check-in at a station wouldn't be much different from passing through a ticket barrier. If it was necessary to control boarding, then barriers could be dedicated to specific platforms and programmed to reject anyone without the appropriate reservation.

It seems odd for LNER to be apparently considering check-in when most airlines are trying their best to move it online.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

It doesn't really differ between domestic and international flights. You have to check in (these days typically online, previously at a desk in the airport) which is essentially saying "Yes, I intend to use the ticket I bought." At this stage, you'll be allocated a seat (assuming you didn't pay extra to select one when you bought the ticket) and issued with a boarding pass - on paper if you're checking in at the airport, in some electronic form if you're checking in online (within the app if you're using one, as a pdf if you're using the airline's website). The boarding pass is what you show at the gate to be allowed on to the plane, but you don't get it when you buy the ticket, only when you check in and there will be a cut-off point before the departure time by which time you must have checked in.

Thanks for the explanation but to someone with no experience of air travel that sounds incredibly bureaucratic! Little wonder that people on this thread are up in arms about a TOC potentially doing something similar. Imagine having to get to Kings Cross at, say, 0830 in order to travel on the 1103 to Leeds!

 

[island]

There's a lot to unpack here. Check in on trains is not a new thing - Eurostar in the UK for instance.

But check in for domestic high speed trains ? Renfe has been doing this for ages - often, like in Valencia, in a segregated area of the station where your luggage is x-rayed as welll. SNCF has it at numerous stations, and for the low cost high speed operate Ouigo.

There is an issue where the train stops at unbarriered stations - where anyone can join - presuming this is done for security reasons and/or fare avoidance.

Security theatre more like.

Or in the case of Ouigo, to ching people for excess baggage.

 

[HSTEd]

How's that going to work when, inevitably, a service (or a whole day's services are binned because the wind is in the wrong direction or there's a giraffe entangled in the overhead wires) gets cancelled?

Well precisely, which is why I doubt HS2 has actually done this.

If they have not done it, then there is no real reason to have compulsory reservations beyond that the TOC wants them.
But the position around here, as has been endlessly repeated, is that compulsory reservations would be required "for safety".

 

[Bletchleyite]

But the position around here, as has been endlessly repeated, is that compulsory reservations would be required "for safety".

The other oft-quoted reason is that operations at Old Oak require it as dwells will be very short.

 

[greyman42]

As others have suggested, with no security checks, a check-in at a station wouldn't be much different from passing through a ticket barrier. If it was necessary to control boarding, then barriers could be dedicated to specific platforms and programmed to reject anyone without the appropriate reservation.

Not all LNER stations have barriers.

 

[route101]

Avanti at Glasgow come close to a check in at Platforms 1 and 2. People queue up and tickets often checked before boarding.

 

[Pigeon]

Thanks for the explanation but to someone with no experience of air travel that sounds incredibly bureaucratic! Little wonder that people on this thread are up in arms about a TOC potentially doing something similar. Imagine having to get to Kings Cross at, say, 0830 in order to travel on the 1103 to Leeds!

It's one of the reasons I refuse to use air transport. With a train all you have to do is get to the station before the train goes. With a plane you have to get to the airport hours in advance in order to waste the time being pointlessly mucked about. For one thing, sod that for a game of soldiers. For another thing, it's a significant part of the reason why air transport within Great Britain isn't actually quicker overall than using the train. Remove that advantage and it sounds like an actual incentive to get more people using planes instead of trains, instead of fewer.

 

[reecestrains]

Airline style check in's on LNER? No, thank you.

It's not like we're going to be heading out of the country.

 

[Watershed]

It's one of the reasons I refuse to use air transport. With a train all you have to do is get to the station before the train goes. With a plane you have to get to the airport hours in advance in order to waste the time being pointlessly mucked about. For one thing, sod that for a game of soldiers.

It wastes time, but when you can get into a decent airport lounge and have a drink and a tipple whilst planespotting, it's not nearly as bad.

For another thing, it's a significant part of the reason why air transport within Great Britain isn't actually quicker overall than using the train. Remove that advantage and it sounds like an actual incentive to get more people using planes instead of trains, instead of fewer.

It's a lot faster for most journeys. For London to Edinburgh it really comes down to where you're going to or from in either city, but for anything further (e.g. London to Aberdeen) let alone journeys where CrossCountry is the alternative (e.g. Southampton to Manchester, Bristol to Edinburgh), the plane wins hands down.

I regularly find flying between London and Manchester the fastest option, too. Of course that only works if you're connecting to or from another flight - if you were heading to central London the train would win.

 

[Krokodil]

It's one of the reasons I refuse to use air transport. With a train all you have to do is get to the station before the train goes.

Have you ever used Eurostar?

 

[noddingdonkey]

If it's reservation only, no standing allowed, and we assume that all services are at a fairly high occupancy (say 80%) how could they recover after a cancellation? (How do Ryanair do it?)

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I can only see check-in working in cases where there are wholly dedicated platforms (as per Eurostar at Ashford), next to no passenger transfers from non-checked-in trains and a low frequency. To put it the other way round I cannot see it being possible to sensibly apply it where platforms are shared with multiple operators/services, to trains with a high churn at intermediate stations or to frequent services where a delay would will quickly result in many hundreds of passengers having to be held somewhere. At least (major) airports tend to have lots of covered space for people to wait indoors (or sleep on the floor) (remember Finsbury Park a few Christmases ago!) and many also having a good supply of hotels in close proximity.

Off the top of my head, try having airline style pre-departure time 'check-in' at Durham in LNER land, at Penrith, Oxenholme, Lancaster, Wigan and Warrington on the west coast or at Stoke-on-Trent for HS2 compatible services. I imagine having, say, 20 minutes 'white space' in the timetable ahead of every 'Compulsory Reservations only with check-in' train, to enable the platforms to be cleared of illegitimate clutter (sorry non checked-in passengers) is a non-runner! An alternative would to be to have a burly steward (ex merchant navy stoker type) on EVERY door which opens at the platform - to count that the correct number of passengers alight and only the correct passengers board.

To reply to an early post. Self-activation of an e-ticket is just that. You can do it whenever you like, or not. Check-in implies a deadline, a permission from 'the man' to be allowed to travel and perhaps a refusal to travel even if you have a valid ticket.

The newish standard gauge railway in Kenya has airline style in-advance-of-departure check-in with security rigmarole. It operates just three times per day (each way), has no interaction with other services (possibly the extension beyond Nairobi, not sure if you can travel through). At Nairobi the transfer to the metre-gauge line (connecting trains are operated) into the city centre requires a walk to, essentially, a separate station. At Mombasa a separate station is being built close to the SGR station for the new MGR connecting line. At Maai Mahiu again a seperate station has been built. Never the twain shall meet.

 

[sheff1]

If TOCs want to operate like airlines then they can give me £220 each time they cancel a train.

Quite. That might concentrate minds or, if not, probably allow me to make a monetary profit on train travel.

Thanks for the explanation but to someone with no experience of air travel that sounds incredibly bureaucratic! Little wonder that people on this thread are up in arms about a TOC potentially doing something similar. Imagine having to get to Kings Cross at, say, 0830 in order to travel on the 1103 to Leeds!

The deadline before which you have to present yourself varies between airports and airlines. At the smallest airports it might be 30 mins. At the larger ones and/or with some airlines it might be an hour, but you are usually recommended to arrive at least 2 hours before departure time to allow time to get through security (and, they hope but do not state, spend money in the various overpriced outlets).

Back to the OP, disappointing that 60 posts in we still do not know exactly what LNER were suggesting.