How could heritage railways encourage more visitors to arrive by public transport?

[Krokodil]

Well the operating season finished on the fifth so you're a bit late if you want to travel on the TR on the eleventh month of 2023 (or "November" as normal people would refer to it). Looking at the scheme it appears to be a recognition badge awarded annually - think "top attractions to visit this year" sort of thing. I'm pretty sure that the place hasn't substantially declined since last year so the fact that there's no fresh badge shouldn't put you off.

Google Maps would tell you the best route via public transport from your preferred remote farmstead. Most options seem to involve either a bus or a Northern service to somewhere like Stockport, Macclesfield, Winsford or Crewe, and then heading for Wolves. The Barmouth Bridge is being rebuilt at the moment so RRBs are in use north of Machynlleth.

Doubtless you're now going to come up with an isolated small holding a gazillion miles from any bus stop or railway station (I've checked and in Cheshire East you're never more than eight miles or so from a railway station, let alone a bus stop, so a little bit of active travel won't hurt - I await the wheeling out of the Standard Minority) in order to 'prove' some sort of point about why it's impossible to get your 20% discount. To preempt this I'll point out that 99.4% of the population do not live in Cheshire East (rural or otherwise) and that 90% of people live in settlements of pop 10k or greater.

And yes, if public transport doesn’t suit you you could always scroll down to the bottom of the page and read the driving directions - or does the Standard Minority's disability preclude the use of the Page Down key? The idea that someone would be put off from visiting somewhere just because it advertises public transport connections is frankly preposterous.

 

[daodao]

To give one example, the Beamish Museum

The Beamish Museum is a poor example, as it is so large that visiting it is a full day's outing, and it is also relatively well-served by buses. [I visited it once over 10 years ago, unusually for me by public transport, and spent 6 hours there.]

There is a niche for public transport in serving visitor attractions, including heritage railways, which are:

• large with plenty to do; and/or
• attract large numbers of people; and/or
• sited in major towns/cities.

It also reduces the car parking requirements, which can be problematic at such venues.

 

[A S Leib]

Doubtless you're now going to come up with an isolated small holding a gazillion miles from any bus stop or railway station (I've checked and in Cheshire East you're never more than eight miles or so from a railway station, let alone a bus stop, so a little bit of active travel won't hurt

Conversely, Cheshire East has at least one fairly major attraction (Jodrell Bank) which isn't very accessible to the ~20% of households without a car. I think the closest station to Jodrell Bank's Chelford, around a 40 minute walk away, with the nearest bus stop a similar distance - not impossible - and I wouldn't mind that option myself - but almost certainly off-putting to those for whom driving's an option. (Their website recommends booking a taxi in advance for Goostrey or at Macclesfield station.)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well the operating season finished on the fifth so you're a bit late if you want to travel on the TR on the eleventh month of 2023 (or "November" as normal people would refer to it).

You appear to have missed the point that I was making which is the referred-to "2022" offer is very much out of date in 2023. In your posting, you made no mention of such an offer being available in 2023, only the 2022 offer.

 

[Krokodil]

You appear to have missed the point that I was making which is the referred-to "2022" offer is very much out of date in 2023. In your posting, you made no mention of such an offer being available in 2023, only the 2022 offer.

There was no suggestion that the offer was time limited. The offer was listed in its own box, separate from the "Good Journeys" stamp

Talyllyn Railway | Parking & How to find us

www.talyllyn.co.uk

 

[railfan99]

It also reduces the car parking requirements, which can be problematic at such venues.

That was one of my major points earlier.

Please correct me, but doesn't England have quite a few villages or towns where to park one has to do so on the outskirts and get a bus (or walk) in?

On busier days some heritage railways' parking lots must fairly quickly fill.

 

[Llanigraham]

That was one of my major points earlier.

Please correct me, but doesn't England have quite a few villages or towns where to park one has to do so on the outskirts and get a bus (or walk) in?

On busier days some heritage railways' parking lots must fairly quickly fill.

Do you mean "England" or the UK (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland)?
I can think of two villages in Devon, England that do require that to happen, but there are numerous across the nation that encourage you to park outside and walk or bus in, although walking predominates.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you mean "England" or the UK (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland)?
I can think of two villages in Devon, England that do require that to happen, but there are numerous across the nation that encourage you to park outside and walk or bus in, although walking predominates.

With preserved railways, "drive to the country end station, take the train into the town, have a nice wander round and a cup of tea, take the train back" does work quite well as a use-case. Doesn't work for all of them (e.g. I don't think "Dolgoch Parkway" would ever work, but then the Tal-y-Llyn station at Tywyn is slightly out of town anyway) but for the ones where it does I suspect a reasonable number of people do do it.

One where that does wory pretty well is the Wensleydale - drive from the motorway or Northallerton to Leeming Bar, which is largely in the middle of a field, and take the train to Leyburn, which is a pleasant little town for a wander round, cup of tea, maybe lunch etc before heading back. The role as a park and ride of that kind perhaps helps its case even when what's on offer is a Pacer, which feels a bit like parking up at Burscough Jn to go to Preston in the 90s.

It'd work for Llangollen if it was the other way round! (Most of the custom will likely come from the Birmingham direction, as on the other side there are mostly sheep for miles).

 

[Mike Machin]

The truth of the matter is that around 80% of households have access to a car and unless visitor attractions can make using public transport more convenient than driving, less stressful than driving and better value than driving, the car will always win. Once someone has invested in a car, the overheads on that car remain constant - (depreciation, maintenance, insurance etc.), it's only fuel and parking that constitute an additional expense.

With electric cars charged at home, the cost differential is even greater. For example, in my EV I can travel from home to Didcot Railway Centre and back home again for around £4.50, and it takes around 55 minutes each way. The parking at Didcot station main car park on a Saturday is £4.50 for 24 hours.

To do the same journey by rail entails driving to Southampton Parkway station, paying £9.10 to park, the cheapest fare is £35.20 and it would take 25 minutes to drive to the station, ten minutes parking/faffing around/waiting and a two hours and twelve minutes train journey involving one or two changes. In other words, using public transport for this journey takes three times as long and costs around five times more! Imagine trying to attempt this as a family with children. Frayed tempers and well over a hundred pounds.

Until public transport can take me door-to-door in around an hour and for less than a tenner all-in, I will stick with my car. And there's the rub, most non-enthusiasts will think the same way.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The other thing that doesn’t help is that many heritage lines with mainline connections often have very poorly timed connections...

That seemed to be the case on my most recent visit to Ravenglass and Eskdale during the summer. On the plus side, however, was the fact that the combined rail / heritage line ticket price gave a decent discount on the cost of buying tickets separately, and also that the roads in the area can be somewhat "interesting" so not everyone might want to drive all the way there.

As for other heritage lines in the North, the Keighley and Worth Valley heritage line is easy enough to get to from either the National Rail station at Keighley, or by using the bus over the big hill from Hebden Bridge to either Oxenhope or Haworth. And the East Lancs Railway in Bury is certainly get to-able on the Metrolink tram system from Manchester City centre and then a brisk walk across Bury town centre.

But, as regards the Embsay and Bolton Abbey line in North Yorkshire, have always driven there, as it's just that little bit too far from Skipton station, and I've never quite got my head round possible bus connections. Maybe I'll revisit that issue in 2024.

 

[renegademaster]

The thing with timing connections is a lot of it is a choice between making the arrival wait really long or the departure wait really long, so whatever you do you loose half the time

 

[railfan99]

Do you mean "England" or the UK (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland)?
I can think of two villages in Devon, England that do require that to happen, but there are numerous across the nation that encourage you to park outside and walk or bus in, although walking predominates.

I meant "England" but accept "UK" may have been a better choice of word.

 

[John Luxton]

With preserved railways, "drive to the country end station, take the train into the town, have a nice wander round and a cup of tea, take the train back" does work quite well as a use-case. Doesn't work for all of them (e.g. I don't think "Dolgoch Parkway" would ever work, but then the Tal-y-Llyn station at Tywyn is slightly out of town anyway) but for the ones where it does I suspect a reasonable number of people do do it.

There's Abergynolwyn Parkway on most of my visits to the TR by car I am approaching from the east and catching the train at Abergynolwyn into Tywyn is more convenient. Quite often its possible to do a trip on the Corris then pop over to Abergynolwyn and fit in both lines in one day.

 

[Llanigraham]

Generally what

There's Abergynolwyn Parkway on most of my visits to the TR by car I am approaching from the east and catching the train at Abergynolwyn into Tywyn is more convenient. Quite often its possible to do a trip on the Corris then pop over to Abergynolwyn and fit in both lines in one day.

Generally what I do as well.
On the Ffest I will park at Tan-y-Bwlch and do likewise.

 

[12C]

Sorry to bump an old thread but I was just having a look at the Churnet Valley Railway website and I was disappointed to read they are now actually discouraging the use of public transport to get there:

Getting Here:​

We highly recommend visiting us with your own private transport, such as a car or motorbike, as bus services may not provide regular access.

Public Train Service

Welcome to our Heritage Train Services! Operating Season: We invite you to join us on our heritage train services, which operate generally from February to October, offering delightful weekend journeys and selected midweek days inApril through to October. Please check our timetable for the...

www.churnetvalleyrailway.co.uk

Worse still as it’s completely untrue, Cheddleton has a good (half hourly) bus service during the day connecting it to Stoke on Trent, with some continuing to Buxton.

I personally think any tourist attraction, particularly one operating in a rural area, should at least make an attempt to encourage public transport use if it is possible/practical. Not to mention they could be needlessly putting those who don’t have a car off visiting.

 

[D6130]

Worse still as it’s completely untrue, Cheddleton has a good (half hourly) bus service during the day connecting it to Stoke on Trent, with some continuing to Buxton.

Yes....but the nearest bus stop is a good 15-20 minute walk from the station along the canal towpath, which is not ideal for families with young children in tow - and their grandparents - especially in wet weather. (I've done it....luckily the rain was fairly light and intermittent on that particular day in September 2022).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jan 2024 ==

I personally think any tourist attraction, particularly one operating in a rural area, should at least make an attempt to encourage public transport use if it is possible/practical. Not to mention they could be needlessly putting those who don’t have a car off visiting.

Agreed.

 

[nanstallon]

To be honest, the British are spoilt. They expect to be delivered straight to the door of wherever they want to go. It is high time that climate change was taken seriously, and we are going to have to adapt to using public transport, which may involve a little bit of walking. Personally, I enjoy having a little stroll along a canal towpath - preferably in decent weather! If we end up with a real climate catastrophe, having to walk from the bus stop will be the least of our problems.

 

[eldomtom2]

Yes....but the nearest bus stop is a good 15-20 minute walk from the station along the canal towpath, which is not ideal for families with young children in tow - and their grandparents - especially in wet weather.

No, but it's close enough for people not to be actively discouraged from using it.

 

[43096]

Worse still as it’s completely untrue, Cheddleton has a good (half hourly) bus service during the day connecting it to Stoke on Trent, with some continuing to Buxton.

I personally think any tourist attraction, particularly one operating in a rural area, should at least make an attempt to encourage public transport use if it is possible/practical. Not to mention they could be needlessly putting those who don’t have a car off visiting.

Why should they be that bothered about how visitors arrive? The key thing is that visitors do come - it matters not how they arrive - and in the current climate that is more important.

 

[paul1609]

No, but it's close enough for people not to be actively discouraged from using it.

I agree, it would be better to say nothing or at least say something on the grounds of the nearest bus stop is x minutes walk away along a canal towpath which may not be suitable for small children details are at... www. traveline.etc etc. then people can make their own decisions.

 

[12C]

Yes....but the nearest bus stop is a good 15-20 minute walk from the station along the canal towpath, which is not ideal for families with young children in tow - and their grandparents - especially in wet weather. (I've done it....luckily the rain was fairly light and intermittent on that particular day in September 2022).

You can get off the bus before the canal and walk through the village, I did it a while ago and was no more than a 15 minute leisurely walk. Although the towpath is more pleasant on a nice day.

I agree, it would be better to say nothing or at least say something on the grounds of the nearest bus stop is x minutes walk away along a canal towpath which may not be suitable for small children details are at... www. traveline.etc etc. then people can make their own decisions.

Exactly, it won’t suit everyone but at least suggest it as an option.

Considering the amount of various dining ‘experiences’ the railway plugs these days, highlighting the bus service might encourage punters to spend a bit more in the on train bar too!

 

[TheTallOne]

I've just looked at my options, journeys for a Saturday morning.

Nearest heritage railway to me, circa 25-30 minutes drive away.

Via public transport: best option 1hr28, worst 1hr49

Options include:

Two busses and a train (quickest)

One bus, walk, one train (longest)

Three busses

Four busses.

 

[Trainlog]

I visit a lot of heritage railways by public transport (Usually National rail) and it's my favourite way of getting to them. I like the ability of not worrying about parking spaces, and I get to see the contrasts of today's network one minute, and the network during different parts of the steam era the next.


I agree with a lot of people earlier on in the thread, I like that the Epping- Ongar does take into account that public transport is the main way of getting to the line with the vintage bus link from Epping tube station to High Weald. However, it's a shame that the plans towards getting back to Epping proper do feel a bit shelved currently as though it's interesting to have this bus link, i do find limitations from when I have used it in the fact that there is little reference outside the station of the heritage railway along with the fact that you have to take the last bus into account when visiting the line (They get very packed on Gala days).

To answer the question of this thread, here are some of my suggestions...


1.) When it comes to heritage railways being part of the London and Southeast railway map, I find it strange that there is no locomotive icon next to the text stating what heritage line it is, when they exist on road and footpath signs - even in the steam era, GWR had icons for Golf courses. It will allow for the heritage railways to stand out better on the map and using an icon can allow rail centers to get a feature if they so wish.

The icon doesn't have to be fancy, honestly, a steam loco outline like the tourist road sign one will do on the map.


2.) A common point of mine but heritage railways do need to consider the fact that if they want to pass the torch, there is little in the way of advertising that could help bring in a new audience that wouldn't have typically visited a heritage railway or haven't been aware of them in the past. If heritage railways want to attract new visitors to their mainline connections and their lines, ideally there should be advertisements at nearby national rail stations so that people are made aware of the line as somewhere to visit.

3.) I reckon the Great Central Railway approach is a good way of solving the wait times at stations by letting you look at the footplate of the loco when it's at the station - I enjoyed this aspect when I visited back in the summer. I could see something like this being a good idea at stations that don't align well with the national network as a way to kill time whilst waiting to board a train.

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/4MBWxE1NySGks1Iv3cHMn9/7b88f5cc82aa3ee5898a2a551cda85d7/LondonSouthEastNetworkRailcard_map__May2023.pdf

 

[12C]

I've just looked at my options, journeys for a Saturday morning.

Nearest heritage railway to me, circa 25-30 minutes drive away.

Via public transport: best option 1hr28, worst 1hr49

Options include:

Two busses and a train (quickest)

One bus, walk, one train (longest)

Three busses

Four busses.

Inevitably, driving door to door will in most cases be quicker, but personally I prefer using the train or bus to make it more of a day out rather than be there and back home as soon as possible. I find not having to drive less stressful, it can be combined with a bit of a walk as described above and using public transport allows the opportunity to sample the odd local pub en route and sometimes end up having a good chat to complete strangers.

To quote Ludovic Kennedy after a coast to coast USA rail journey: “I could have saved time, but what would I have done with the time I had saved?”.

 

[30907]

I agree, it would be better to say nothing or at least say something on the grounds of the nearest bus stop is x minutes walk away along a canal towpath which may not be suitable for small children details are at... www. traveline.etc etc. then people can make their own decisions.

I don't know the line, but they clearly want you to start at Froghall (understandably, from the description online), so "we recommend starting at Froghall; and using private transport as the station has no bus service nearby."

 

[railfan99]

No, but it's close enough for people not to be actively discouraged from using it.

Agreed: in September 2023 I travelled by rail and the local bus, and walked on the road (that passed some industry) to get there, and on the way back used the canal towpath (more pleasant).

It rained a bit on the return, but that was OK.

The bus was punctual leaving Stoke-on-Trent Hanley "bus station": the return departed my boarding stop about three minutes late.

 

[bussnapperwm]

I've just looked at my options, journeys for a Saturday morning.

Nearest heritage railway to me, circa 25-30 minutes drive away.

Via public transport: best option 1hr28, worst 1hr49

Options include:

Two busses and a train (quickest)

One bus, walk, one train (longest)

Three busses

Four busses.

Similar for my local heritage railway

Taxi: 25 mins
Bus: 67 mins (2 buses).
Bus + Train: 50 mins

I'd do the middle one as a concessionary pass holder, but relying on Diamond Kidderminster at any time of day with the roadworks that keep popping up in the Wyre Forest District, they aren't exactly reliable... and for the bus + train option, relying on West Midlands Railway is a bit ambitious at times

 

[TheTallOne]

yes, I guess it’s less likely the steam train driver and crew will go on strike (although as per another topic…)

The car driver (me) probably won’t go on strike either, as long as he either gets a cuppa or a small beer at some point.

I have to say I find driving less stressful than using public transport, but everyone is different. Having a range of options is good for all. Perhaps offer discounts for those that come by public transport if feasible.

 

[Krokodil]

The car driver (me) probably won’t go on strike either, as long as he either gets a cuppa or a small beer at some point.

Travel by public transport and you can have a large beer.

 

[John Luxton]

Travel by public transport and you can have a large beer.

This is one of the great advantages of using public transport to access heritage lines in particular those with bars at either the station or on board the train. I have a strict limit on half a pint of beer or a pint of shandy (no spirits or wine) if anywhere near the car. Without the car to worry about it is a different matter!