London Overground line names announced

[renegademaster]

No matter how neutral it is or how it functions, it *is* still a political position, in the political make up of our country. It is de facto political!
If we got rid of it we would need and alternative Head of State or alterations to the current political setup.

To try and claim as others have naming something after them is not political and then in the same breath try and claim Windrush is - is laughable.

People love to try and claim things that named after they don't agree with is 'politcal' - generally to deflect the real reasons they dont like it...

As said before , windrush line also implies special importance to that wave of migration over all the others. The names after royalty imply they are more important that regular people too, you are correct they are political,which is why i also dont like them either. But two wrongs dont make a right.

 

[Horizon22]

Plenty of people got up in arms about "Elizabeth line". A thing you are going to find on a discussion forum is discussion

Well quite you’re not going to please everyone.

I don’t think they’re too bad; some names are good, others are “meh”. I think it’s clear they wanted to go with ‘one word line names’ which cuts out the geographic names. But there are certainly - in my opinion - a couple that could have been done better.

I’m more intrigued on how they’ll not confuse the customer information and wayfinding with the Overground remaining an ‘umbrella’ term whilst giving the lines identity. For instance the stock will probably remain orange, but which maps will they put on? If the line goes into disruption will it be Severe Delays on the Mildmay line? Overground control is split across lots of different areas, so will that remain the same? What will internal staff call it? Lots of tiny questions like this which are all connected for the overall product

 

[Tester]

The suffragettes did some stuff to the railway too...

I haven't noticed any effects on today's railway from what the suffragettes did.

Major on the other hand.....

 

[W-on-Sea]

However as none of the names have a geographical element (apart from arguably Lioness), they could have been allocated better. For example Liberty Line is a good name, but it's wasted on the obscure Rom-minster branch and the justification is tenuous at best.

Liberty is the one that does have an unambigious, clear, and enduring historic and geographic link with the area it serves: the Liberty of Havering-atte-Bower. (TfL's justificiation is drivel, of course, and overlooks that most people who have lived in the area for any length of time don't regard the area as being part of London, anyway). Realistically and maybe by chance or design it also ties into the general political outlook of the borough, which is, in this and numerous other ways, rather set apart from Greater London.

 

[Horizon22]

How does that help you work out which line is disrupted if you just give a place, this is the current situation now and it's often a mess

Yes the status quo was not great either. The Overground being “Part-Suspended” is not useful to 99% of people if it’s Romford - Upminster or the other side of the network to the bit you frequent.

 

[DjU]

saying people shouldnt say anything because ultimately nothing we say he matters

i wouldnt call all the people suggesting a numerical s bahn system reactionaries having a strop.

You are *very* good at making things up I'll give you that... I haven't told anyone to not say anything nor have I said people suggesting S Bahn numbers are having a strop...

You seem very confused

 

[renegademaster]

Yes the status quo was not great either. The Overground being “Part-Suspended” is not useful to 99% of people if it’s Romford - Upminster or the other side of the network to the bit you frequent.

Theyll struggle to fit all the new lines on the Whiteboards/TV screens/PIS displays, i suspect that problem is here too stay

 

[Falcon1200]

Once you learn it, you know… and numbers are easier to learn and remember…

Once you learn names you know them too! And personally I find names easier to remember than numbers.

How is naming it after a national team divisive?

Naming it after only one of the two national teams who won a major honour at Wembley could be termed divisive.

Or the suggested North London Line. Since when has Richmond or Clapham Junction been in North London?

North London Line is not suggested, it has been in use for decades, and by and large it does indeed serve North London; Unlike say the West Coast Main Line which goes hardly anywhere near the West Coast!

The proof of the pudding will be how well the names actually catch on and are used, I will reserve judgment on that for a while.

 

[DjU]

As said before , windrush line also implies special importance to that wave of migration over all the others. The names after royalty imply they are more important that regular people too, you are correct they are political,which is why i also dont like them either. But two wrongs dont make a right.

No where in the naming of Windrush does it imply or confer any importance OVER others. Thats on you.

Naming it merely says it has some importance to be recognised

 

[jon81uk]

How about simply saying between which locations is disrupted? This 'naming' of lines is pointless. Why is it necessary?

Currently the announcements were just stating which bit is disrupted, but to infrequent users they have no idea if that affects them or not. Stating "the london overground is currently suspended between Dalston Kingsland and Gospel Oak" doesn't help someone trying to travel between Cheshunt and Seven Sisters who isn't familiar with the station names and therefore has no idea whether thats the bit they need. But stating " the Mildmay line of the London Overground is suspended between Dalston Kingsland and Gospel Oak" is then clear to someone who knows they need the Weaver line that it doesn't affect them.

 

[Purple Train]

Well, my first observation is "it could have been worse", but I have a few reservations.

1) I've read the press release and still don't have a clue what "Liberty Line" is supposed to mean. I appreciate it must be difficult trying to come up with a relevant name for such a short line with not that many distinguishing features (what's Emerson Park famous for?) but the justification is pretty useless. When I think of the London Borough of Havering I think of 500 Miles by The Proclaimers, not a traditional sense of feisty independence. While I can see from this thread that people familiar with the area like it, I would hazard a guess that it wouldn't make sense to three-quarters of London.

2) I agree with the previous comments on "Suffragette Line", and also think that "Lioness Line" is a bit corporate. "Mildmay Line" I have no objection to in principle, but, as with "Liberty Line", it will have little significance to people at the other end of the route.

3) The colours are appalling. I'm not colour-blind and even I struggled to tell the difference between blue and green on the Overground-only map in post #27. The version of the Tube map on the BBC page is a little better, but by no means great.

4) It will make the already-totally-cluttered tube map even more so. I hope that Khan's next transport project is cleaning up the Tube map, but that wouldn't do, as his shiny new lines won't appear on any self-respecting cleaned-up version.

 

[jon81uk]

Theyll struggle to fit all the new lines on the Whiteboards/TV screens/PIS displays, i suspect that problem is here too stay

TfL already solved that, the screens only show the parts with disruption now.
Like this

 

[DarloRich]

The network is most easily to navigate when you can instinctively work out where a line goes based on its name, especially at busy stations with many destinations. “North London line” - ah it must go round the north of London. But who knows where Mildmay hospital is? Ironically it seems like TfL don’t.

Surely you trace your line along the colour line counting the stops if you don't know - that's what I do abroad when I don't speak the language.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Yet I take it you have no problem with the Jubilee line, the Metropolitan line, the District line etc etc.

Just repeat mistakes from the past, ok well done

 

[DjU]

Naming it after only one of the two national teams who won a major honour at Wembley could be termed divisive.

I think if someone is finding the fact it was named after the female team and not the male team devisive, then I think there are bigger issues at play there... see Joey Barton.

It's still fundamentally the England national team.

 

[CaptainBen]

I'd be just as against the Nye Bevan Line or the Keir Hardie Line as I would the Margaret Thatcher Line.

At least Margaret Thatcher represented a London constituency.

None of the Overground lines go to Finchley, so probably not relevant for this discussion. There is an argument for the High Barnet branch of a separated Northern line to be named after her, though.

 

[VauxhallandI]

That would be the name for the Mancheter - Stockport - Crewe line, surely?

No that would be Nicky Weaver

 

[renegademaster]

Highbury & South London line would be a neater geographical name that normies would be able to figure out too

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've read the press release and still don't have a clue what "Liberty Line" is supposed to mean.

It refers to the Royal Liberty of Havering.

 

[Via Bank]

How about simply saying between which locations is disrupted? This 'naming' of lines is pointless. Why is it necessary?

This is exactly why they're being given names in the first place, because "No service on the Windrush line" will be much more concise than "No service on London Overground between Highbury & Islington and West Croydon/Crystal Palace/New Cross Gate/Clapham Junction (via Surrey Quays)" particularly when sat next to information about the Mildmay/North London line. This has been a long running mess on the service information boards, particularly given the circular nature of LO's routes.

There is some inherent complexity which is unavoidable, but dividing into separate service groups (à la the sub-surface lines) will at least break it up and make it easier to reason about.

 

[158756]

I might be unpopular for saying this but IMO Windrush is the best of the new names.

Suffragette feels clunky. I think it would have been better named after a person, but I suppose the problem there would be the most famous suffragettes were from Manchester and if you name it after a specific person questions will be asked about some of the things they did.

Liberty feels like a name you'd expect to see on the Paris Metro. I've read the explanation but it still feels like a tenuous link to Romford. Lioness feels very current - what if the team changes it's name in future, or leaves Wembley, or just generally loses popularity? Also not the first route I'd think of if I wanted to get to Wembley - when the Lionesses play will there be problems with people who don't know where they're going all trying to cram on the Lioness line?

Mildmay is named after a place/hospital very few people outside the immediate area have ever heard of, and which isn't even on the route. And for Weaver, maybe Londoners have a different view, but North East London isn't the first place that comes to mind when I think of Weavers. I also just don't think it's a very good name.

 

[12LDA28C]

This is exactly why they're being given names in the first place, because "No service on the Windrush line" will be much more concise than "No service on London Overground between Highbury & Islington and West Croydon/Crystal Palace/New Cross Gate/Clapham Junction (via Surrey Quays)" particularly when sat next to information about the Mildmay/North London line. This has been a long running mess on the service information boards, particularly given the circular nature of LO's routes.

There is some inherent complexity which is unavoidable, but dividing into separate service groups (à la the sub-surface lines) will at least break it up and make it easier to reason about.

More concise, yes. More confusing? Also yes, at least until all users have learnt where the Windrush line is.

 

[spyinthesky]

Too many people care about nothing. Those that use it will use it.

 

[bramling]

The new names for the six London Overground lines have been announced by the Mayor of London.

They will all appear on the Underground map as parallel lines but on different colours, replacing the swathe of orange that currently appears.

The new names are:

Lioness - Euston to Watford Junction (yellow)
Mildmay - Stratford to Richmond/Clapham Jun (blue)
Windrush - Highbury & I to Clapham Jun/New Cross/Crystal Palace/West Croydon (red)
Weaver - Liverpool Street to Enfield Town/Cheshunt/Chingford (maroon)
Suffragette - Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside (green)
Liberty - Romford to Upminster (grey)

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...ansport-for-london-elizabeth-ii-b1139254.html



THC

Political - sadly just as expected.

Politicians who are more interested in furthering their own agenda rather than working for the good of the country as a whole. But just what we have come to expect from this failing country.

Given their in some cases obscurity one can see these names becoming something of a laughing stock.

And from a logistical point of view was it really a priority given TFL’s financial state?

 

[12LDA28C]

How does that help you work out which line is disrupted if you just give a place, this is the current situation now and it's often a mess

It seems to work on other parts of the national network where lines aren't named.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Haha. The only ones creating polarisation are the people getting up in arms by a simple name. It gets a name and then loads of people find a flimsy excuse to get all angry at how that name is offensive to *them*.

well I’m not right wing and it reads like a load of virtue signalling over reach. So yes it is a baiting extreme left action.

 

[PGAT]

More concise, yes. More confusing? Also yes, at least until all users have learnt where the Windrush line is.

At least getting into arguments online helps us remember them all

 

[jon81uk]

More concise, yes. More confusing? Also yes, at least until all users have learnt where the Windrush line is.

You only need to know what line you are on or are moving to next, then you can just ignore all other information.

Similarly on the Underground, if travelling on the Central line and changing at Oxford Circus to get onto the Victoria line, an announcement about the Bakerloo line can be ignored as it is neither the line you are on, or the one you want, you don't need to learn where the Bakerloo line is.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Naming it after only one of the two national teams who won a major honour lost a European final at Wembley could be termed divisive.

Fixed that for you.

 

[VauxhallandI]

At least getting into arguments online helps us remember them all

This is very true!

I think if someone is finding the fact it was named after the female team and not the male team devisive, then I think there are bigger issues at play there... see Joey Barton.

It's still fundamentally the England national team.

Off topic but; you think it’s premium professionalism for commentators made up from players in the 9th step of the men’s game?

As thats the level of football skills we are talking about here, nothing to do with genitalia

I think all commentators are a PITA mind