• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

St Andrews Transport Study - rail link option

och aye

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2012
Messages
806
This was reported in The Courier a couple of days ago.


Residents have the chance to air their views over two options to reduce traffic in the town.

The first is to build a railway station in St Andrews with services to Dundee and Edinburgh.


And the second is an off-road, rapid transit connection between St Andrews and Leuchars station.


The pros and cons of each are set out in a detailed study, which is online now.


This is then followed by a short survey, the results of which will be sent to the Scottish Government by the end of March.

Here is a link to the online survey for those who might be interested in more information or participating. The survey it is open until 17th March.


Here's a snapshot of the 3 different options. More information is available in the link to the survey.

What are the options?​

Over the course of the study, a long-list of options has been generated, developed, packaged and progressively appraised. At this Detailed Options Appraisal stage, three ‘option packages’ remained in-scope to be considered – these are:
  • Option 1: Heavy rail St Andrews to Edinburgh services and St Andrews to Dundee shuttle (noting that these could be phased)
  • Option 2: New fixed off-road St Andrews to Leuchars Light Rapid Transit (LRT)-type connection timed to meet train arrivals
  • Option 3: New Leuchars bespoke bus services timed to meet train arrivals
New Park and Ride facilities for St Andrews have not been considered here. The main reason for this is that the policy aim (aligned with the Scottish Government’s target to reduce car-kilometres by 20% by 2030) is for trips to be made end-to-end using public transport. Any new edge of town P&R facilities would have a very modest impact on reducing car-kilometres.

Note also that any of these options should be supplemented by improvements to walking and cycling links to enable sustainable access from within the town.

Option 1: Heavy rail


How much would this alignment cost to build?

The estimated capital cost would be in the region of £115m, with an additional cost of £16m to add a chord that would facilitate services to Dundee, £131m in total.

At this stage in an appraisal, costs are initial estimates based on making best use of the information available at this stage. To reflect this uncertainty, a percentage uplift to the base cost is applied based on experience of projects of a similar nature – this is known as ‘optimism bias’. The appropriate optimism bias for this option is 64% and thus the adjusted cost would be £188m, with an additional £26m for the Dundee chord, £214m in total.

1709488365988.png

Option 2: Light Rapid Transit (LRT)

How much would this alignment cost to build?

The estimated capital cost would be in the region of £80m, or £131m when adjusted for optimism bias. This is based on an at-grade access to Leuchars - i.e., running on the heavy rail Dundee to Edinburgh line.

LRT systems have a lower cost of construction and offer the opportunity for future low-cost provision of additional stations. Signalling would also be of tram standards, which is much lower cost and would allow line of sight operation by driver.

1709488417723.png

Option 3: Bespoke bus services​


Is a bus option viable?

In our view, a dedicated rail-bus operating between Leuchars and St Andrews is not a viable option for the following reasons:
  • It would be difficult to make a compelling case for a ‘market failure’ with the current commercial bus services that would justify state intervention in the form of a Fife Council contract
  • Abstracting demand from the current bus services could lead to a reduction in the frequency or length of operating day of those services and / or an increase in fares
  • Any reduction in the current St Andrews – Dundee bus service could have a knock-on impact on more marginal services in the north-east Fife area, that are possibly underwritten by revenue earned on that route
There are bus-based measures which could be implemented to improve the Leuchars – St Andrews service. However, these measures would not materially improve connectivity in their own right. Bus-based options were not therefore considered further in the appraisal.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

lachlan

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2019
Messages
805
I am confused what the bus option being proposed is - to my knowledge St Andrews to Leuchers already has a frequent bus service
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,113
I am confused what the bus option being proposed is - to my knowledge St Andrews to Leuchers already has a frequent bus service
The light rail option is also just the heavy rail option but without an Edinburgh-facing chord, even though the chosen alignment was mostly justified on the basis of quicker journeys into Edinburgh. It seems clear that what they want to do is progress the heavy rail, but also to make it look like they've done a comprehensive analysis.
 

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
8,248
Location
SE London
The LRT proposal sounds to me like a recipe for disaster: An isolated section of track requiring its own specially custom-built units. How many units? 2? 3 maximum, maybe? The cost per unit of maintenance and difficulties coping if a unit has an accident or goes out of service would be horrendous. And is there anywhere else in the UK - or the World for that matter - where an isolated tram line has been successfully built and run in the middle of the countryside?
 

mcmad

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2015
Messages
979
The light rail option is also just the heavy rail option but without an Edinburgh-facing chord, even though the chosen alignment was mostly justified on the basis of quicker journeys into Edinburgh. It seems clear that what they want to do is progress the heavy rail, but also to make it look like they've done a comprehensive analysis.
Since the report has been produced for the rail link campaigners then it was obviously going to come up with that as the preferred option despite having the lowest cost benefit.
 

stevieinselby

Member
Joined
6 Jan 2013
Messages
211
Location
Selby
I am confused what the bus option being proposed is - to my knowledge St Andrews to Leuchers already has a frequent bus service
Yes - Stagecoach run buses every 7/8 minutes direct between St Andrews bus station and Leuchars railway station then on to Dundee – the journey time between St Andrews and Leuchars is 11–12 minutes.
Replicating that with a dedicated non-stop rail link bus would be a complete waste of time, money and resources, as it wouldn't be able to compete on frequency and nor would it offer any meaningful saving on journey times.

The LRT proposal sounds to me like a recipe for disaster: An isolated section of track requiring its own specially custom-built units. How many units? 2? 3 maximum, maybe? The cost per unit of maintenance and difficulties coping if a unit has an accident or goes out of service would be horrendous. And is there anywhere else in the UK - or the World for that matter - where an isolated tram line has been successfully built and run in the middle of the countryside?
It's basically Parry People Movers all over again. If the 99 bus can do the journey in 12 minutes then any kind of light rail would need to cut a few minutes off that to be worth the expenditure, and so a single vehicle could manage a half-hourly service without too much bother, which is all that is needed to connect with a half-hourly train. So one in service and one spare ... seems like the loss of economies of scale would eat up any savings!
 

lachlan

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2019
Messages
805
Yes - Stagecoach run buses every 7/8 minutes direct between St Andrews bus station and Leuchars railway station then on to Dundee – the journey time between St Andrews and Leuchars is 11–12 minutes.
Replicating that with a dedicated non-stop rail link bus would be a complete waste of time, money and resources, as it wouldn't be able to compete on frequency and nor would it offer any meaningful saving on journey times.


It's basically Parry People Movers all over again. If the 99 bus can do the journey in 12 minutes then any kind of light rail would need to cut a few minutes off that to be worth the expenditure, and so a single vehicle could manage a half-hourly service without too much bother, which is all that is needed to connect with a half-hourly train. So one in service and one spare ... seems like the loss of economies of scale would eat up any savings!
A tram could continue on streets into St Andrews but then so could an extended bus service...
 

stuu

Established Member
Joined
2 Sep 2011
Messages
2,792
The LRT proposal sounds to me like a recipe for disaster: An isolated section of track requiring its own specially custom-built units. How many units? 2? 3 maximum, maybe? The cost per unit of maintenance and difficulties coping if a unit has an accident or goes out of service would be horrendous. And is there anywhere else in the UK - or the World for that matter - where an isolated tram line has been successfully built and run in the middle of the countryside?
It's not very different in principle to the Isle of Wight line. Which isn't a great precedent at the moment
 

mrcheek

Established Member
Joined
11 Sep 2007
Messages
1,478
This reminds me of Yes Minister.

The options have clearly been drawn up and costed to ensure that Option 1 is chosen
 

lachlan

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2019
Messages
805
This reminds me of Yes Minister.

The options have clearly been drawn up and costed to ensure that Option 1 is chosen
To be fair, I'm not sure what other conclusion anyone could come to for improving public transport to and from St Andrews. It seems fairly clear that light rail or a subsidised bus service are bad ideas.
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,113
To be fair, I'm not sure what other conclusion anyone could come to for improving public transport to and from St Andrews. It seems fairly clear that light rail or a subsidised bus service are bad ideas.
I think probably the answer is that maybe the government's 20% target needs to either be met elsewhere in the country, or by making driving less appealing. Before Leuchars you could make a case for the direct trains to Edinburgh, but now there probably isn't a coherent service to be had.

This is one of those cases where doing nothing is not only an option, but probably the best one.
 

InOban

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2017
Messages
4,225
I agree. There are plenty of proposals to enhance the network which would survive contact with the real world of the Business Case. Unfortunately they are crowded out by non-starters like this.

It's a few years since I visited St. A, but is there a segregated cycle path between Leuchars and the town? If not, that would be the best investment in Active Travel. And a P&R to discourage cars into the centre of the town
 

lachlan

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2019
Messages
805
I agree. There are plenty of proposals to enhance the network which would survive contact with the real world of the Business Case. Unfortunately they are crowded out by non-starters like this.

It's a few years since I visited St. A, but is there a segregated cycle path between Leuchars and the town? If not, that would be the best investment in Active Travel. And a P&R to discourage cars into the centre of the town
I was wondering this earlier and it appears there is, albeit it is adjacent to the main road so not sure how pleasant it is to cycle on.

The proposals may make more sense if we knew the origin and mode of journeys that are made to St Andrews.

Could Leuchars perhaps be advertised as a P&R?
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
7,652
I thought the heavy rail cost looked optimistic for a reopening
Then I looked at the map and I realised it was not using the old route but ploughing an entirely new railway through.
Then I looked at the contours….
Is there the capacity for this service to go into Edinburgh anyway?
What’s wrong with the buses, which can go round the town rather than just dump you on the outskirts?
£131m would buy quite a bit of bus priority stuff and a fancy bus station….

Is this ‘the answer is a railway, now what is the question?’
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,113
Absolutely. Crackers behaviour and needs a dose of reality administered sharpish.
Don't you know that St Andrews is the largest conurbation in Northeast Fife without a railway station? Won't somebody please think of the house prices
 

702

Member
Joined
12 May 2021
Messages
19
Location
Edinburgh
I was wondering this earlier and it appears there is, albeit it is adjacent to the main road so not sure how pleasant it is to cycle on.

The proposals may make more sense if we knew the origin and mode of journeys that are made to St Andrews.

Could Leuchars perhaps be advertised as a P&R?
Having walked it as part of the Fife Coast Path, the eastern end is seperated by a hedge or areas of grass and trees, that bit is fine, the western bit is right next to the road and is not so great, but cycling could be done in a few mins.

And just to add, a fast and frequent bus from Leuchars to St. Andrews is fine, this doesn't seem like it should be a high priority in the re/opening stakes.
 

vic-rijrode

Member
Joined
31 Aug 2016
Messages
288
Surely this would be a great idea and onwards to Crail, Anstruther and Levenmouth - linking up with the new line there...
 

A330Alex

Member
Joined
13 Feb 2019
Messages
223
Their reasoning for discounting any bus priority measures for the existing route is very questionable. They would deliver faster and more reliable journey times.

One of the key benefits of a light rail solution would presumably be the ability to run on-street into St Andrews and Leuchars which isn’t considered here. Obviously an isolated, limited LRT scheme will never be viable.

Comprehensive outline and full business cases alone can be very expensive. You could likely improve the active travel provision, subsidise a public cycle hire scheme and introduce bus priority on key sections for the same price.

This clearly isn’t going to go anywhere regardless with £200m+ project costs. Unless perhaps you add an additional station midway, develop the entirety of the A91 corridor and impose substantial developer contributions in the process. Would love to know how incredibly unpopular that would be locally.
 
Last edited:

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
7,652
Their reasoning for discounting any bus priority measures for the existing route is very questionable. They would deliver faster and more reliable journey times.

One of the key benefits of a light rail solution would presumably be the ability to run on-street into St Andrews and Leuchars which isn’t considered here. Obviously an isolated, limited LRT scheme will never be viable.
On street running is far too expensive for small towns, and is just a slower less flexible bus.
The economics for this must suck - how much more can you charge for an Edinburgh-St Andrews ticket over an Edinburgh-St Leuchars one? And loads of the passengers will be on student discounts, and buying advances to their home which they would otherwise have got from Leuchars
 

sannox

Member
Joined
1 Mar 2016
Messages
409
It seems a non-starter for me - the LRT also sounds the better option but then the isolated units is an issue,.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
7,652
Is it, though? The Stourbridge Shuttle seems to work OK.
That was an alternative to closing an existing line.
These folk plan on building a whole new line - just the land buying and legals will make the accountants eyes water.
This plan is just a combo of trainophilia and busophobia
 

WAB

Member
Joined
27 Jun 2015
Messages
714
Location
Middlesex
I've always found the 99 bus to be a very good service whenever I've visited St Andrews. Every ten minutes during the day, every 20 minutes till late. Slap the double arrow on the buses and the bus station, install a couple of TVMs at the bus station, bribe Stagecoach to add a slightly later last bus to meet the last train from Edinburgh and job done, millions saved.
 

lachlan

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2019
Messages
805
That was an alternative to closing an existing line.
These folk plan on building a whole new line - just the land buying and legals will make the accountants eyes water.
This plan is just a combo of trainophilia and busophobia
I think the question was more with regards to reliability

I've always found the 99 bus to be a very good service whenever I've visited St Andrews. Every ten minutes during the day, every 20 minutes till late. Slap the double arrow on the buses and the bus station, install a couple of TVMs at the bus station, bribe Stagecoach to add a slightly later last bus to meet the last train from Edinburgh and job done, millions saved.
Better still, integrated ticketing (assuming this doesn't exist already)
 

WAB

Member
Joined
27 Jun 2015
Messages
714
Location
Middlesex
Better still, integrated ticketing (assuming this doesn't exist already)
Through tickets are available through LNER, ScotRail, RailEasy and Trainline. It'd be good if it was more universal. TVMs would be useful for those starting journeys in St Andrews and those collecting TOD.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
98,198
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Through tickets are available through LNER, ScotRail, RailEasy and Trainline. It'd be good if it was more universal. TVMs would be useful for those starting journeys in St Andrews and those collecting TOD.

The bus being in the rail timetable and (and this is important) it counting as a delayed train for ticketing purposes if late/cancelled is what you need. With contactless actually buying a bus ticket isn't a huge effort, just tap in and out.
 

ajrm

Member
Joined
1 Feb 2019
Messages
148
Through tickets are available through LNER, ScotRail, RailEasy and Trainline. It'd be good if it was more universal. TVMs would be useful for those starting journeys in St Andrews and those collecting TOD.
The enquiry desk at St Andrews bus station sells rail tickets.
 

Boff

Member
Joined
9 May 2023
Messages
19
Location
Edinburgh
From what I've found, a lot of people who would happily travel by train don't because the words 'bus connection' strike so much fear within their hearts that they don't dare touch it with a barge-pole.

Whether this should be the case or not is a different matter, but I do think an actual rail connection would significantly reduce the number of cars from locals, tourists and students alike.
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,113
From what I've found, a lot of people who would happily travel by train don't because the words 'bus connection' strike so much fear within their hearts that they don't dare touch it with a barge-pole.

Whether this should be the case or not is a different matter, but I do think an actual rail connection would significantly reduce the number of cars from locals, tourists and students alike.
I guess the question there is whether it's better to pander to their prejudices and spend an eyewatering amount of money on a railway for them in the hopes that they will deign to use it, even though that money could be transformational elsewhere. You could just force their hands by introducing road pricing and low speed limits until they give up.
 

Top