How long can i be held on a train?

[Jan Mayen]

I'm currently on 9M47 Edinburgh to London Euston at Watford Junction. We are only partly on a platform (7?), as someone is threatening to throw themselves in front of a train. The front of this train has passed them, but nonetheless we are not moving and no-one is allowed off.
So, as per thread title, how long can I be keep on a train under these circumstances?
Please note, I'm only curious as to the answer. I've no intention of leading a rebellion or anything. I've a suitable supply of liquid refreshment if nothing else

 

[dk1]

You just wait to be told the next step. Others have far more pressing needs & don’t need any added stress in the situation.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I understand. But at what point might it deemed to be unreasonable? An hour? Two? Three?
I'd note that I'm only a few feet away from a door which is on the platform, and London Overground is continuing to operate.
Actually, we are just moving onto the platform.

 

[dk1]

I understand. But at what point might it deemed to be unreasonable? An hour? Two? Three?
I'd note that I'm only a few feet away from a door which is on the platform, and London Overground is continuing to operate.
Actually, we are just moving onto the platform.

How long is a piece of string? You just have to follow advice from onboard crew.

 

[Russel]

Presume said person is on the platform, threatening to jump?

If trains have been stopped then can't the police just remove them?

 

[dk1]

Presume said person is on the platform, threatening to jump?

If trains have been stopped then can't the police just remove them?

Nothing is that straightforward.

 

[Jan Mayen]

How long is a piece of string? You just have to follow advice from onboard crew.

There comes a point when an instruction becomes unreasonable. I concede that will vary from incident to incident, but there are limits. Or do we have to stay on board forever and a day?

Now heading at full throttle to Euston.

 

[dk1]

There comes a point when an instruction becomes unreasonable. I concede that will vary from incident to incident, but there are limits. Or do we have to stay on board forever and a day?

Now heading at full throttle to Euston.

Glad to hear you are on the move but no impatience will speed such situations up. It just adds more stress onto the poor traincrew.

 

[Horizon22]

If you are partly on the platform, it may be possible to selectively open some door and allow people off.

Stranded trains start to be considered by the 45-60 minute mark for next steps, including in the worst case, evacuation.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Glad to hear you are on the move but no impatience will speed such situations up. It just adds more stress onto the poor traincrew.

I'm sorry if I came across as impatient. I wasn't actually that bothered by the delay, as I'm off work for a week. If it had come to evacuating the train through a single door, I'd have been happy to have been last off.
I didn't speak to the train crew. I just drunk my wine, and posted on here, which was an agreeable way to pass the time

 

[dk1]

I just drunk my wine, and posted on here, which was an agreeable way to pass the time

That sounds the perfect way to pass the inexplainable length of time.

 

[12LDA28C]

Presume said person is on the platform, threatening to jump?

If trains have been stopped then can't the police just remove them?

The police don't generally hang out on station platforms just in case someone wants to end it all. Even if they are called and arrive on the scene quickly, it's often a case of negotiating with the individual as they may threaten to jump or harm themselves in some other way if they are approached. These incidents can sometimes take several hours to resolve.

 

[Lurcheroo]

I'm sorry if I came across as impatient. I wasn't actually that bothered by the delay, as I'm off work for a week. If it had come to evacuating the train through a single door, I'd have been happy to have been last off.
I didn't speak to the train crew. I just drunk my wine, and posted on here, which was an agreeable way to pass the time

I think you’re question is perfectly reasonable. It is difficult to answer. As you’re partly on the platform, you’d like to think not too long before they decide it’s reasonable to let passengers off by doors on the platform. Will largely depend on what is going on and how long it is expected to take to resolve it. Might also differ based upon who is responsible for control of releasing doors. If it’s DOO then the driver might be pre occupied with talking to the signaller, station staff or control. If it’s conductor control they may have more capacity to look at and get permission to do so.

 

[sheff1]

If you are partly on the platform, it may be possible to selectively open some door and allow people off.

Stranded trains start to be considered by the 45-60 minute mark for next steps, including in the worst case, evacuation.

If a train is partly in a platform at a station where there are alternative transport options, as in this case, I would hope that letting those who wanted to alight do so would happen before the 45/60 min mark. A few years back I was on a diverted SWR fast which came to a halt at a station in SW London (Putney or Barnes maybe ??) due to a signal failure in the Waterloo area and I don't think it was more than 10 mins before the doors were opened.

 

[cmovcc]

on a bus in London I've seen people hit the emergency exit and jump out after 45 seconds

 

[skyhigh]

on a bus in London I've seen people hit the emergency exit and jump out after 45 seconds

For obvious reasons, a train is completely different.

 

[12LDA28C]

A few years back I was on a diverted SWR fast which came to a halt at a station in SW London (Putney or Barnes maybe ??) due to a signal failure in the Waterloo area and I don't think it was more than 10 mins before the doors were opened.

This is an entirely different situation compared to one where there is potential for serious injury or loss of life. Even if train movements are stopped there is potential for someone to climb up towards the OHLE if they are determined to do themselves harm.

 

[Ducatist4]

There have been numerous instances of train passengers self evacuating as well.

 

[Three-Nine]

There have been a couple cases in Japan where passengers have been held in shinkansen trains overnight - some of the reporting even referred to such cases as "hotels on tracks" - before either being evacuated or the train moving so that might give an idea of the upper limit. I doubt UK railways would do that except in the most extreme circumstances, such as a train stuck in a snow drift in a remote location or something though.

 

[Horizon22]

There have been numerous instances of train passengers self evacuating as well.

Yes and there is some evidence to suggest that passengers are now more likely to self-evacuate earlier at an earlier point in the stranding then they used to. No doubt the rise of social media and instant messaging is at least partly why.

 

[Starmill]

Most of the time, if someone has a pressing need to leave the train that can be accommodated without too much difficulty. Just one door can usually be released easily if the train has a guard and at least one passenger door with a door control panel is on the platform. It's a bit more complicated if the only door(s) platformed don't have a panel or the guard can't physically get to the panel. Sometimes the guard will get authority to use the emergency door release to allow people to leave in these circumstances. If there's just no door on the platform you're going to have to wait it out. If the train doesn't have a guard you'll also just have to wait it out as the driver will most likely be too busy to do anything about it. They may be able to give normal door release if they can stop their train in an appropriate place for that, though.

 

[DMckduck97]

There have been numerous instances of train passengers self evacuating as well.

Self evacuating in third rail land is asking for trouble in itself, sometimes the best thing people can do is just follow the advice and guidance provided to them by trained individuals.

 

[Recessio]

I was once held on a train at Balham - fully inside the station, all doors on the platform - while the guard and driver diagnosed a fault. The doors weren't released, we weren't scheduled to stop there. I saw a young man pull the emergency door release and get off, promptly followed by everyone else in the carriage who got another train or the tube! I would never evacuate onto track without authorisation, "Lewisham style", but in this case safely onto a platform it was more understandable. I do understand why they didn't release the doors though, we weren't scheduled to stop there and they had bigger fish to fry.

 

[1D54]

Could self evacuation lead to a charge of trespassing on the railway?

 

[43066]

I'm currently on 9M47 Edinburgh to London Euston at Watford Junction. We are only partly on a platform (7?), as someone is threatening to throw themselves in front of a train. The front of this train has passed them, but nonetheless we are not moving and no-one is allowed off.
So, as per thread title, how long can I be keep on a train under these circumstances?
Please note, I'm only curious as to the answer. I've no intention of leading a rebellion or anything. I've a suitable supply of liquid refreshment if nothing else

A perfectly reasonable question, to which there’s no definitive answer. In your situation, with part of the train in a platform, it would be easy enough for crew to egress doors that are platformed, and for people wishing to alight to walk through the train, and that’s likely what would have happened had you been held there for much longer.

This becomes more difficult/impossible if no doors are platformed, or if the train is comprised of separate units with no interconnecting corridors.

Could self evacuation lead to a charge of trespassing on the railway?

Absolutely.

It will also lead to many other passengers remaining trapped as trains cannot move when there are trespassers on the railway, and in third rail areas the current will likely have to be switched off. This is why the Lewisham incident a few years ago was so prolonged; as soon as they were ready to move trains, somebody else would egress, and they’d be back to square one.

 

[skyhigh]

Could self evacuation lead to a charge of trespassing on the railway?

Do you mean self evacuation lineside or onto a platform?

Definitely if you get off and go for a walk up the track, very unlikely if you just open a door onto a platform (though you could still end up in trouble other than being done for trespass)

 

[gabrielhj07]

Not exactly the same situation I know, but being held at Glenfinnan waiting for a late train to clear the single section, the first thing the Guard did was invite the passengers to mill around on the platform until the train passed.

 

[TPO]

on a bus in London I've seen people hit the emergency exit and jump out after 45 seconds

..... and some motorway incidents (accidents, severe weather) have resulted in people being stranded in their stationary vehicles for many, many hours- with no information or assistance. [Once it's over 6-8 hours then they will usually start turning traffic around to release on the same carriageway, but that's a long slow process].

If a train has decent conditions- everyone in a seat, hotel power working, toilets available, regular updates from traincrew even if it's "no change"- then chances of self de-trainment are apparently (and logically) rather lower than if it's a ram-loaded unit with no power, and no opening windows on a hot sunny day. Lesson there?.

I have long since come to the conclusion that if you NEED to be somewhere at a specific time and it's critical, then you must stay the night before within walking distance of the destination. There's no transport method immune from delays these days- excepting perhaps Shanks Pony.

TPO

 

[Horizon22]

Self evacuating in third rail land is asking for trouble in itself, sometimes the best thing people can do is just follow the advice and guidance provided to them by trained individuals.

People regularly don't listen to "advice and guidance by trained individuals" though and are increasingly impatient. Sometimes this can be exacerbated if an EMU has no power and the systems start to load-shed which means no PA after 60-90 minutes.

 

[Angmering1974]

I'm sorry if I came across as impatient.

You’d be accused of being impatient by some even if you just sighed heavily after being trapped on a train for 8 hours with no opening windows and 30c outside, no working toilets and no water.