Euston overcrowding

[Transilien]

I really hope the HS2 rebuild fixes this problem. It is really bad having such an important railway station in such a bad state.

 

[styles]

I think it's important not to overtalk it. It very much isn't that because gatelines can be pushed through, so it's not going to end up with masses of people crushed against an immovable barrier.

It is a problem though. The station is utter purgatory to use at present.

I don't think it's an exaggeration - while the barriers can be pushed through, they're bottlenecks, and the handrails and walls to the sides can't be pushed through; and people are barging their way through a crowd to get a seat then before you know it they've fallen or been pushed onto the tracks.

The ORR seem to agree that it's a serious safety risk. Every year it gets worse, and there's a limit point at which it will become deadly.

 

[Cross City]

I also don’t think it’s an exaggeration that it’s extremely dangerous, and it’s important that people do say these things.

All it takes is one person at the front of a rush to the platform to fall over on the down ramp and it could very easily end up in a pile-on with the people at the bottom being crushed. All because they deliberately wait to the very last second to announce platforms forcing people to run or risk missing their train.

It really would not surprise me if it happened one day.

 

[Ridgeblog]

This is very serious and is nothing new, yet Network Rail still seems to ignore it. Hopefully the ORR will find a more suitable solution. That is a serious accident waiting to happen.

 

[bramling]

I honestly think it's a Hillsborough disaster waiting to happen.

I get that you want people to depart a train before starting to board it again, and ideally you want to clean it and do a walk-through in between; but the timescales are just far too short at Euston. Platforms are often announced like 2 minutes before scheduled departure, and of course we've drilled into passengers that train doors can close up to 2 minutes before departure. Not to mention all the people on flexible tickets scrambled for coaches C/U, or those with luggage wanting to get prime storage spots.

For years now there's been a strive to increase capacity on the network, but it's been so focussed on the rails and signals that we've neglected the stations.

The ORR in October called out Network Rail for this at Euston saying it's an unacceptable safety risk. They have to come up with some new ideas, and I don't really think taking away central departure boards is the answer.

It can't be a permanent solution that we keep significant portions of station space (the platforms) empty for the vast majority of the time. Maybe barriers are needed, with one-way systems, or guards against falling onto rails, or removing some furniture like the industrial bins stored on the platforms, or underground/overground waiting areas, or dare I say some compulsory purchasing of neighbouring land to expand, but something has to change.

I get the feeling that Euston seems to work on the “this is how we do things here” principle, similar to the Blackpool North ideology.

Completely agree that sooner or later something is going to happen that will force a change. They will then *have* to find a way of preparing trains with people either on the platform or even on the train.

 

[Bungle965]

One change that I have noticed is the employment of some extremely overzealous new security staff, who during the disruption this week I watched literally scream at a passenger who dared to walk down to where his train was (although had been taken off the boards)

The security staff that were there previous weren’t particularly great, these appear to be hired straight off the doors of your local rough nightclub!

 

[Mikey C]

I get the feeling that Euston seems to work on the “this is how we do things here” principle, similar to the Blackpool North ideology.

Completely agree that sooner or later something is going to happen that will force a change. They will then *have* to find a way of preparing trains with people either on the platform or even on the train.

Euston and Blackpool North seem to be competing to be the least passenger friendly stations in the country.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I honestly think it's a Hillsborough disaster waiting to happen.

I get that you want people to depart a train before starting to board it again, and ideally you want to clean it and do a walk-through in between; but the timescales are just far too short at Euston. Platforms are often announced like 2 minutes before scheduled departure, and of course we've drilled into passengers that train doors can close up to 2 minutes before departure. Not to mention all the people on flexible tickets scrambled for coaches C/U, or those with luggage wanting to get prime storage spots.

For years now there's been a strive to increase capacity on the network, but it's been so focussed on the rails and signals that we've neglected the stations.

The ORR in October called out Network Rail for this at Euston saying it's an unacceptable safety risk. They have to come up with some new ideas, and I don't really think taking away central departure boards is the answer.

It can't be a permanent solution that we keep significant portions of station space (the platforms) empty for the vast majority of the time. Maybe barriers are needed, with one-way systems, or guards against falling onto rails, or removing some furniture like the industrial bins stored on the platforms, or underground/overground waiting areas, or dare I say some compulsory purchasing of neighbouring land to expand, but something has to change.

Errr - I think Euston has already been there and done that.....

It can't be a permanent solution that we keep significant portions of station space (the platforms) empty for the vast majority of the time. Maybe barriers are needed, with one-way systems, or guards against falling onto rails, or removing some furniture like the industrial bins stored on the platforms, or underground/overground waiting areas, or dare I say some compulsory purchasing of neighbouring land to expand, but something has to change.

In situations where there are long and busy trains on non-IC services, with quick turnrounds, then even with not-very-large platforms it's accepted that people will be waiting for the train and will barely let you off before they start boarding. I've often - at terminals such as Brighton and London Victoria - been getting off a train in a mass of people, only to encounter another mass of people coming up the platform the other way to get on. (Platforms are usually advertised shortly before the train arrives, where it's a quick turnround, so there's no attempt to hide the platform allocation until after the incoming service has emptied out.) This doesn't seem to be considered an organisational problem, nor a safety problem, so what's so different about Euston? I understand that for longer-distance journeys, more people are likely to turn up at the station further ahead of their departure time; but then the turnround times aren't so tight, so there's plenty of scope to let people onto the platform well before departure.

 

[AndrewE]

What people are asking for with Avanti, is the train comes in and passengers get off, cleaners, etc get on. Train locked, platform announced, passengers allowed to start coming onto platform if they want. Train unlocked and boards when ready.

which is exactly how platforms 8 and 9 are worked at Edinburgh Waverley. It saves having a crowd blocking the Market St entrance and allows people to drift along the platforms to find their coach, or just sit on a platform seat rather than standing in a scrum. The platform might not be advertised, but the arrival from Euston is, and you aren't prevented from going down.

 

[Falcon1200]

In situations where there are long and busy trains on non-IC services, with quick turnrounds, then even with not-very-large platforms it's accepted that people will be waiting for the train and will barely let you off before they start boarding.

I was at Euston, at 0800 yesterday (Fri 28th June) for 1S45 0830 to Glasgow Central. The screens showed Preparing, then Boarding at 0825; Leaving just 5 minutes for a large number of passengers, many with large luggage, to make their way from the concourse to the Platform (3), and then in some cases along most of the length of an 11-car Pendolino! In the event the platform was actually displayed at about 0822. The reason for the late boarding was the incoming train, 1R08 0513 from Lancaster, not arriving until 0815, instead of the booked 0800, so actually Euston did well to get 1S45 away just a minute late.

This does raise the question of (in this case unplanned) short turnrounds; Should there be a minimum turnround enforced for longer distance trains, to allow calm and unhurried boarding, even if this results in a late departure? And would passengers for say the 0830, even if it was advertised as not now leaving until 0840, take their time or would they still rush in fear of missing their train?

Given the number of passengers now using Euston I am not sure there is a simple solution to the overcrowding problem, which certainly is a major concern.

 

[The Planner]

I was at Euston, at 0800 yesterday (Fri 28th June) for 1S45 0830 to Glasgow Central. The screens showed Preparing, then Boarding at 0825; Leaving just 5 minutes for a large number of passengers, many with large luggage, to make their way from the concourse to the Platform (3), and then in some cases along most of the length of an 11-car Pendolino! In the event the platform was actually displayed at about 0822. The reason for the late boarding was the incoming train, 1R08 0513 from Lancaster, not arriving until 0815, instead of the booked 0800, so actually Euston did well to get 1S45 away just a minute late.

This does raise the question of (in this case unplanned) short turnrounds; Should there be a minimum turnround enforced for longer distance trains, to allow calm and unhurried boarding, even if this results in a late departure? And would passengers for say the 0830, even if it was advertised as not now leaving until 0840, take their time or would they still rush in fear of missing their train?

Given the number of passengers now using Euston I am not sure there is a simple solution to the overcrowding problem, which certainly is a major concern.

Only if your prepared to let delays rattle on for several hours after with varying late departures. Ideally you wouldnt sweat assets so much and have hot spares that can step up. Though understandably you still need to cycle the sets so they are in the right place for maintenance, which this could disrupt.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Noting that there a variety of scenarios when the London Overground ‘DC’ service may well be the only one able to operate with any degree of normality (during major and sustained main line disruption) because of its largely self-contained nature, would there be any merit in some sort of dedicated ‘lane’ on the ramp for LO departures and arrivals?

Obviously it would be necessary to avoid also encouraging stranded passengers waiting for services to Glasgow, Holyhead, etc. to just wander down and spread out.

I am sure south of the river you see people waiting on platforms before the train comes in. It certainly happened to me the other Saturday coming into Charing Cross. My 375 was stuck on Hungerford Bridge for about 10 mins, as soon as the doors opened at CHX a charge of passengers burst through waiting for the next down service.

 

[M&NEJ]

Surely the longer term aim should be to get departing passengers onto the platform sooner rather than later, with specific waiting areas on each platform. On an airport you send people to a departure gate, not keep them all in one hall!

If I were planning to rebuild Euston I would keep the exisiting ramps for people arriving, to walk away from the platform; and build new corridors above each platform, leading to one or two escalators/stairways nearer the centre of the platform for departing passengers to come down to the waiting areas.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Really Euston should have been redeveloped at the same time as the WCML upgrade when they knew frequencies would be getting at least doubled on each intercity route, piling more pressure on an already inadequate platform and concourse layout. Railtrack clearly had other ideas though.

 

[Falcon1200]

Rebuilding Euston as part of the West Coast Route Modernisation would have added billions to the already huge cost, taken years and caused massive disruption, over and above that which the project caused anyway. HS2, in its full and complete form, is the answer.

 

[strawbrick]

Several years before HS2 was announced there was a major redevelopment proposal which took advantage of the fact that the existing concourse is several metres above the track level by creating two passenger areas. The lower, existing, level would be for passengers arriving on inbound trains with a new concourse, slightly above the existing main concourse, for passengers awaiting to board departing trains. Just like they used to do at Waterloo International.

 

[Kite159]

Just had an interesting experience with the 10:24 to Coventry. Late into the station so only got announced at 10;22 with the platform screen saying 'platform closing' going from P11 with the gateline in operation with the member of staff playing hide and seek creating a larger tailback when people's tickets didn't work forcing their way through the barriers to catch the train

 

[Skie]

I am sure Euston has years of historical data/evidence to justify not allowing everyone to use the platforms to wait for trains, and that's before considering what happens if they do a unit swap or a train changes platform last minute.

Of course all of this data is subject to confirmation bias by the experience at Euston being one of urgency to get on a train quickly, which has only been made worse by the recent addition of countdown timers and the practice of calling trains later and later.

 

[jackdoyle]

Regarding the ORR Improvement Notice, I sent an FOI asking what were the "necessary control measures" put in place. They said:

1. Produce to ORR a suitable and sufficient risk assessment for passenger flows and overcrowding.
2. The risk assessment should cover all foreseeable passenger surge and overcrowding situations.
3. Cooperation by Network Rail with affected duty holders to manage overcrowding at Euston Station
4. Implementation of mitigations and controls for passenger flow and overcrowding, which includes the following:

• Implementation of textured floor markings, floor signage, hatchings to direct passenger flow, prevent slip trip and fall (STFs), prevent rush from concourse, prevent key areas being blocked (i.e, platform entries), cross through running man on ‘no running’ signs so this is clear to non-native speakers.
• Fixed tensator barriers to be put in place at the top of every ramp.
• Boarding Coordinator role and responsibilities fully defined and a clear implementation plan on who will undertake this role and when this will be implemented.

 

[Skie]

Floor markings that can’t be seen when crowds are on them, tensator barriers that become a trip hazard in large surging crowds and shouty men.

That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Floor markings that can’t be seen when crowds are on them, tensator barriers that become a trip hazard in large surging crowds and shouty men.

That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Agree, that sounds like it will make it worse.

Absolutely nothing at all to address the root issue, which is calling trains too late.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Regarding the ORR Improvement Notice, I sent an FOI asking what were the "necessary control measures" put in place. They said:

1. Produce to ORR a suitable and sufficient risk assessment for passenger flows and overcrowding.
2. The risk assessment should cover all foreseeable passenger surge and overcrowding situations.
3. Cooperation by Network Rail with affected duty holders to manage overcrowding at Euston Station
4. Implementation of mitigations and controls for passenger flow and overcrowding, which includes the following:

• Implementation of textured floor markings, floor signage, hatchings to direct passenger flow, prevent slip trip and fall (STFs), prevent rush from concourse, prevent key areas being blocked (i.e, platform entries), cross through running man on ‘no running’ signs so this is clear to non-native speakers.
• Fixed tensator barriers to be put in place at the top of every ramp.
• Boarding Coordinator role and responsibilities fully defined and a clear implementation plan on who will undertake this role and when this will be implemented.

A lot of expenditure which apart from creating additional risks as pointed out by @Skie and @Bletchleyite above could also be avoided by simply not leaving it until the last minute before announcing anything...

 

[takno]

Floor markings that can’t be seen when crowds are on them, tensator barriers that become a trip hazard in large surging crowds and shouty men.

That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Are you suggesting that ORR have absolutely no relevant expertise in crowd control away from the train-platform interface, and might just be winging it themselves?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure why they think Tensabarriers at the top of ramps will be in any way helpful, because that will just increase the crowding around the platform entrances. It needs to be accepted that nowadays people will know their platform in advance, however much they seek to hide it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2024 ==

Are you suggesting that ORR have absolutely no relevant expertise in crowd control away from the train-platform interface, and might just be winging it themselves?

If that rubbish is what they've come up with, clearly yes!

 

[Russel]

Something I noticed on Saturday while passing through Euston, given the state of play regarding not allowing passengers onto the platform until the last minute, why are there benches on the platforms??

 

[AndrewE]

Something I noticed on Saturday while passing through Euston, given the state of play regarding not allowing passengers onto the platform until the last minute, why are there benches on the platforms??

So that the casualties from the rush can be laid out in comfort and not delay a train while they wait for an ambulance?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Something I noticed on Saturday while passing through Euston, given the state of play regarding not allowing passengers onto the platform until the last minute, why are there benches on the platforms??

There are only (that I recall) benches on 8-11, and nobody stops you going down there if you want in normal circumstances.

Though in terms of why they are there, platforms were not suppressed for local services until the mid 2000s. It worked better when they weren't.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Are you suggesting that ORR have absolutely no relevant expertise in crowd control away from the train-platform interface, and might just be winging it themselves?

Genuine question: Which organisation is actually the most expert in station crowd control (at a main line terminal such as Euston so, for example, London Underground or Hong Kong metro not really applicable)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Genuine question: Which organisation is actually the most expert in station crowd control (at a main line terminal such as Euston so, for example, London Underground or Hong Kong metro not really applicable)?

One would think Network Rail themselves - but they do seem to be grossly failing, and at multiple locations, too (Manchester Picc P13/14 being the other obvious one). Particularly given that they've got stations to compare that have similar services but nowhere near the level of problem (e.g. Kings Cross).

 

[AndrewE]

Genuine question: Which organisation is actually the most expert in station crowd control (at a main line terminal such as Euston so, for example, London Underground or Hong Kong metro not really applicable)?

One would think Network Rail themselves - but they do seem to be grossly failing, and at multiple locations, too (Manchester Picc P13/14 being the other obvious one). Particularly given that they've got stations to compare that have similar services but nowhere near the level of problem (e.g. Kings Cross).

Given the long history of crush events - including 173 lives lost in a London air-raid shelter https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Bethnal-Green-Tube-Disaster/ - I am surprised that money isn't being found to address this properly.

There must be reams of enquiry and research reports, not to mention guidance and the dozens of hits at HSE that you get when you Google "guidance crowd control." Anybody who has had any involvement at all with H&S knows the importance of the topic.
Their H&S professionals must be feeling very uncomfortable just now. I can only guess that the financial drivers of putting retail in what should be circulation space and no money to sort it out are the sticking points.

I think they are skating on very thin ice. https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg142.htm (Managing crowds safely) says

Responsibilities of the management team​

Crowd safety is primarily a management responsibility and requires the application of the best practices of health and safety management. All who run venues, organise events or manage places which attract crowds should have a health and safety management system which anticipates, monitors and controls potential crowding risks.

and

Some hazards to watch out for​

RMC's study indentified those physical features of a venue that may lead to overcrowding and possible injury. These include:

• steep slopes
• dead ends, locked gates
• convergence of several routes into one
• uneven or slippery flooring or steps

The potential for injury increases in some situations. Potential hazards requiring identification and management control include:

• reverse or cross flows in a dense crowd
• flows which are obstructed by queues, or gathering crowds