• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

TfW withdrawals (170/175 all gone, now just class 15x to go)

Lurcheroo

Established Member
Joined
21 Sep 2021
Messages
1,232
Location
Wales
More 197's aren't needed.
Getting the 756's and 398's in service, and 231's cascaded off the Valleys is what is needed so 197's can be put on the routes they were designated for.
Absolutely.
I would say that it could really only be determined if more 197’s are needed once all the other fleets are operating as intended, so that includes the MK4’s and 230’s too.
Then if they were struggling for capacity I’d rather see some more middle cars made and have some of the 2 cars made into 3 cars.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Anonymous10

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2019
Messages
2,397
Location
wales
Absolutely.
I would say that it could really only be determined if more 197’s are needed once all the other fleets are operating as intended, so that includes the MK4’s and 230’s too.
Then if they were struggling for capacity I’d rather see some more middle cars made and have some of the 2 cars made into 3 cars.
Or 3 cars into 4 and exclusively for mainline use?
 

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
5,457
The TFW 150's going for scrap are life expired. The cost of the exam work required for the sake of a few extended years really isn't worth it.
There also isn't the Depot space to keep them all going alongside all the other new fleets. The 150's should have been gone soon anyway with the introduction of the 398's had that introduction been on time.
Other 150 fleets are soldiering on and, as far as I know, still being overhauled. As you say, the problem is the late arrival of the new fleets and the 150s hitting their C6 deadline. With hindsight, a few should have been overhauled in the past two years and gone to the back of the scrap queue.
 

Wyrleybart

Established Member
Joined
29 Mar 2020
Messages
2,010
Location
South Staffordshire
More 197's aren't needed.
Getting the 756's and 398's in service, and 231's cascaded off the Valleys is what is needed so 197's can be put on the routes they were designated for.
Is the correct answer.
I know diddley squat about financials but I am willing to bet that all that cash tied up in Stadler units sitting around Cardiff and Taffs Well will have left to finance instructions to get the old tat off fhe balance sheet.

I notice the 150 car on the lorry still seemer to have windscreen wipers and wipac lights. Did Landore remeve the Cummins engine and final drive ? And did it go to Sims on scrap wheelsets ? From what I am reading the obsolete Cummins NT855s are a valuable commodity in the railway industry.
 

Caaardiff

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2019
Messages
1,100
Other 150 fleets are soldiering on and, as far as I know, still being overhauled. As you say, the problem is the late arrival of the new fleets and the 150s hitting their C6 deadline. With hindsight, a few should have been overhauled in the past two years and gone to the back of the scrap queue.
Are they all the same age? Have they done similar mileages? Have they been maintained to the same standard?
Everything is hindsight. Ultimately the train lease company decides what happens next to them. TFW didn't want or need them.
 

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
5,457
Are they all the same age? Have they done similar mileages? Have they been maintained to the same standard?
Everything is hindsight. Ultimately the train lease company decides what happens next to them. TFW didn't want or need them.
Assuming units were delivered roughly in numerical order, 150281 is almost the youngest. The non gangway 150/1 are all older than the 150/2. Once something is that old, age doesn't matter. The first units to go are simply those that are longest out of overhaul when the decision is made to start binning them off. The older 317s lasted longer than the second series because the latter were due overhauls when the first 720s arrived. As for the 150s, I think TfW probably does still want them. If they weren't due C6 overhauls, there would still be 34 of them in service.
 

Lurcheroo

Established Member
Joined
21 Sep 2021
Messages
1,232
Location
Wales
As for the 150s, I think TfW probably does still want them. If they weren't due C6 overhauls, there would still be 34 of them in service.
Almost certainly, if TFW could keep them until the 398’s are ready then they would. They’ve taken measures to try and make them last a bit longer by restricting them to the valleys lines, therefore reducing how much mileage they do, as much as possible.

TFW certainly don’t want them after that or to pay for an overhaul they would get no use out of.
 

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
5,457
Almost certainly, if TFW could keep them until the 398’s are ready then they would. They’ve taken measures to try and make them last a bit longer by restricting them to the valleys lines, therefore reducing how much mileage they do, as much as possible.

TFW certainly don’t want them after that or to pay for an overhaul they would get no use out of.
Unfortunately, the measures only affect the mileage based C4 exams. C6 exams are date based, and when they reach the 10 year drop dead date, it is game over. Thankfully there are only three more on the list this year, 237, 230 and 250. 237 has about two weeks to go.
 

50002Superb

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2021
Messages
1,475
Location
Nottingham
It was mentioned upthread that it was being repaired at Landore, I presume it's still there
Repaired?

I thought it was one of the fire damaged ones and unlikely to return?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Does anyone know where 150242 is?
You can’t see it from the train or the road that runs the other side of the depot.
 

50002Superb

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2021
Messages
1,475
Location
Nottingham
Because it's in the shed being repaired! it's C6 doesn't run out yet so it's worth repairing (it was outside so has been moved recently, and don't forget they have just stripped 236 for parts)
I understood that the two burns victims were also intended to be used for parts, is there a source to confirm that it’s being repaired?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

It was mentioned upthread that it was being repaired at Landore, I presume it's still there
Which post is it that you are referring to?
 

sd0733

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2012
Messages
4,670
Understood, maybe @sd0733 can shed some light as to the current intention?
As far as I'm aware nothing has changed and it's still the intention to bring them back. Last time I was at Landore (some time ago admittedly) one coach was being shunted around freshly painted.
They're not my area of expertise though I'm afraid so can't guarantee what the intentions are now!
 
Joined
28 Jul 2015
Messages
121
The two Craven Arms crash & fire damaged units, 150 242 and 150 279 are currently under repair. Given the varying extent of damage across the 4 vehicles, we will be making them up as Hybrid units, in order to get a complete unit back into traffic sooner:

Hybrid 1 will be formed of 52279 and 57242 (Will likely keep the 150 279 unit number, dictated by the 52 car). This has been fired up and running and is now undergoing interior fitment and rebuild.

Hybrid 2 will be formed of 52242 and 57279, and will likely keep the 150 242 unit number. 52242 was the most heavily damaged with significant cab damage. 57279 will be going into the paint shop in the next week or two. It's currently the last remaining mainline vehicle still carrying the old Arriva Trains Wales blue livery.

Whether they get put back into their correct unit formations will be down to TfW.

The 175 fleet that have all come through Landore over the past year were not re-formed into original formations.
 

Spaceship323

Member
Joined
24 Jan 2020
Messages
490
Location
Nuneaton Trent Valley
The two Craven Arms crash & fire damaged units, 150 242 and 150 279 are currently under repair. Given the varying extent of damage across the 4 vehicles, we will be making them up as Hybrid units, in order to get a complete unit back into traffic sooner:

Hybrid 1 will be formed of 52279 and 57242 (Will likely keep the 150 279 unit number, dictated by the 52 car). This has been fired up and running and is now undergoing interior fitment and rebuild.

Hybrid 2 will be formed of 52242 and 57279, and will likely keep the 150 242 unit number. 52242 was the most heavily damaged with significant cab damage.

Whether they get put back into their correct unit formations will be down to TfW.

The 175 fleet that have all come through Landore over the past year were not re-formed into original formations.
That's nice to have confirmed thanks, hopefully see them around soon
 

JakeMurphy

Established Member
Joined
30 Aug 2018
Messages
1,222
The two Craven Arms crash & fire damaged units, 150 242 and 150 279 are currently under repair. Given the varying extent of damage across the 4 vehicles, we will be making them up as Hybrid units, in order to get a complete unit back into traffic sooner:

Hybrid 1 will be formed of 52279 and 57242 (Will likely keep the 150 279 unit number, dictated by the 52 car). This has been fired up and running and is now undergoing interior fitment and rebuild.

Hybrid 2 will be formed of 52242 and 57279, and will likely keep the 150 242 unit number. 52242 was the most heavily damaged with significant cab damage. 57279 will be going into the paint shop in the next week or two. It's currently the last remaining mainline vehicle still carrying the old Arriva Trains Wales blue livery.

Whether they get put back into their correct unit formations will be down to TfW.

The 175 fleet that have all come through Landore over the past year were not re-formed into original formations.
Great to hear they are getting repaired, I assume the C6’s aren’t running out anytime soon on those.
 

50002Superb

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2021
Messages
1,475
Location
Nottingham
The two Craven Arms crash & fire damaged units, 150 242 and 150 279 are currently under repair. Given the varying extent of damage across the 4 vehicles, we will be making them up as Hybrid units, in order to get a complete unit back into traffic sooner:

Hybrid 1 will be formed of 52279 and 57242 (Will likely keep the 150 279 unit number, dictated by the 52 car). This has been fired up and running and is now undergoing interior fitment and rebuild.

Hybrid 2 will be formed of 52242 and 57279, and will likely keep the 150 242 unit number. 52242 was the most heavily damaged with significant cab damage. 57279 will be going into the paint shop in the next week or two. It's currently the last remaining mainline vehicle still carrying the old Arriva Trains Wales blue livery.

Whether they get put back into their correct unit formations will be down to TfW.

The 175 fleet that have all come through Landore over the past year were not re-formed into original formations.
Great, thanks for clarifying
 

45076

Member
Joined
4 Feb 2021
Messages
296
Location
Midway, South Derbyshire
The two Craven Arms crash & fire damaged units, 150 242 and 150 279 are currently under repair. Given the varying extent of damage across the 4 vehicles, we will be making them up as Hybrid units, in order to get a complete unit back into traffic sooner:

Hybrid 1 will be formed of 52279 and 57242 (Will likely keep the 150 279 unit number, dictated by the 52 car). This has been fired up and running and is now undergoing interior fitment and rebuild.

Hybrid 2 will be formed of 52242 and 57279, and will likely keep the 150 242 unit number. 52242 was the most heavily damaged with significant cab damage. 57279 will be going into the paint shop in the next week or two. It's currently the last remaining mainline vehicle still carrying the old Arriva Trains Wales blue livery.

Whether they get put back into their correct unit formations will be down to TfW.

The 175 fleet that have all come through Landore over the past year were not re-formed into original formations.
Cheers for the info.
 

Wilts Wanderer

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2016
Messages
2,998
Anecdotally the (very) heavy overhaul programme that GWR put their 150/2 fleet through a few years ago basically proved that the units were in significantly worse condition, corrosion-wise in particular, than had been thought. Some individual units took months and significant amounts of new steel to return into traffic. It would be interesting to know how much of the original unit still exists on certain examples.

I imagine this experience has informed other operators’ choices about what to do with their respective 150 fleets - and the leasing companies too!
 

50002Superb

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2021
Messages
1,475
Location
Nottingham
Anecdotally the (very) heavy overhaul programme that GWR put their 150/2 fleet through a few years ago basically proved that the units were in significantly worse condition, corrosion-wise in particular, than had been thought. Some individual units took months and significant amounts of new steel to return into traffic. It would be interesting to know how much of the original unit still exists on certain examples.

I imagine this experience has informed other operators’ choices about what to do with their respective 150 fleets - and the leasing companies too!
Yep.

150202 seemed to be at Wolverton for years (although that might be age playing tricks on me).
 

150249

Member
Joined
13 Dec 2021
Messages
1,029
Location
The better Devon city
Anecdotally the (very) heavy overhaul programme that GWR put their 150/2 fleet through a few years ago basically proved that the units were in significantly worse condition, corrosion-wise in particular, than had been thought. Some individual units took months and significant amounts of new steel to return into traffic. It would be interesting to know how much of the original unit still exists on certain examples.

I imagine this experience has informed other operators’ choices about what to do with their respective 150 fleets - and the leasing companies too!
I believe 150244 and 150234 were at Wolverton for months on end

Yep.

150202 seemed to be at Wolverton for years (although that might be age playing tricks on me).
18 months I believe

Surely the TfW units are just as bad
 
Joined
30 Jul 2015
Messages
1,025
150202 seemed to be at Wolverton for years (although that might be age playing tricks on me).

1.5 years, so your mental faculties are OK

Of the three most recent GWR units that have gone to Wolverton for C6, I have their dates as approx

150202 19.02.22 - 25.08.23
150207 04.09.23 - 12.04.24
150216 23.04.24 - date

So even if 216 gets done as quickly as 207, then it is still only about half way through.
 

Wilts Wanderer

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2016
Messages
2,998
1.5 years, so your mental faculties are OK

Of the three most recent GWR units that have gone to Wolverton for C6, I have their dates as approx

150202 19.02.22 - 25.08.23
150207 04.09.23 - 12.04.24
150216 23.04.24 - date

So even if 216 gets done as quickly as 207, then it is still only about half way through.

Good god, I didn’t realise it was still going. How many units are left to complete?
 

Top