Abandoned Railways from Above,new C4 series.

[geoffk]

So I watched episode two - Varsity Line. Quite interesting.

Really left me thinking the busway in Cambridge would have to be converted back to a rail line. I am also pretty sure a new route is needed in places to get as far as Bedford.

Niggles :-
The map they keep showing dropped all mention of Bedford by the time we had passed Bletchley !.

No mention at all of HS2 or the Great Central apart from the GC on the map early on.

Interesting they mentioned the Metropolitain railway service that connected at Verney Junction in the middle of nowhere !.

Interesting facts about the old terminus in Oxford (Rewley Road). The station building+train-shed from there was moved to Quanton Road on the Buckingham Railway Centre. I had completely forgotten the Varsity line did not run into the GW station at Oxford !.

Did anyone notice a slightly strange accent from the narrator. Some words seemed miss-pronounced and near the end I started to think AI was narrating it !.

I've watched both of these. Clearly they are not aimed at rail enthusiasts, being shown at prime viewing time. I thought a lot of time was spent on the Mullard Observatory, which could justify a programme to itself, while other important locations such as the GCR and HS2 crossings were ignored. Then we had a reference to "steam-hauled tube trains" in the section about Verney Junction! I think this station was technically part of London Underground only from 1933 to 1936, when the line from Aylesbury closed. Did LT ever show it on their maps?

I agree about all the padding and repetition but this seems to be a feature of many programmes nowadays.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I think this station was technically part of London Underground only from 1933 to 1936, when the line from Aylesbury closed. Did LT ever show it on their maps?

Good question. The contemporary London Underground Transport maps of the period (Fred Stingemore, Harry Beck, et al) only ever seem to concentrate on Central London, vaguely pointing, off map, to 'far distant' places, such as Rickmansworth, and (possibly) further beyond.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The Metropolitan Railway was an outer suburban railway too, not only a sub surface inner suburban.
The attached map (Flickr link) shows the route out to Verney Junction.

Map of the Metropolitan Railway and Connections, c1931 - 32

Fairly close to the end of the independent Metropolitan Railway here as this map, although undated, must be c1931/2 as it shows the Stanmore Branch under construction and the LER's Cockfoster's extension as being built. The Metropolitan Railway was one of the few railway companies to have...

www.flickr.com

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Sun Chariot. Good stuff. When does the map in post #63 date from? Must presumably be from just before October 1932 when 'Gillespie Road' tube station got renamed as 'Arsenal (Highbury Hill)' complete with suffix.

 

[Sun Chariot]

@Sun Chariot. Good stuff. When does the map in post #63 date from? Must presumably be from just before October 1932 when 'Gillespie Road' tube station got renamed as 'Arsenal (Highbury Hill)' complete with suffix.

The Flickr submitter states it's 1931-32, which ties in with Gillespie Road change of name from October 1932

 

[geoffk]

The Metropolitan Railway was an outer suburban railway too, not only a sub surface inner suburban.
The attached map (Flickr link) shows the route out to Verney Junction.

Map of the Metropolitan Railway and Connections, c1931 - 32

Fairly close to the end of the independent Metropolitan Railway here as this map, although undated, must be c1931/2 as it shows the Stanmore Branch under construction and the LER's Cockfoster's extension as being built. The Metropolitan Railway was one of the few railway companies to have...

www.flickr.com

Indeed, and it had Pullman cars and also ran freight trains. But my comment above was mainly about the daft reference to "steam-hauled tube trains".

 

[Sun Chariot]

Indeed, and it had Pullman cars and also ran freight trains. But my comment above was mainly about the daft reference to "steam-hauled tube trains".

Absolutely @geoffk "Cut and Cover" and "outer suburban" must've been a step too far for the programme researchers...

My post.with map, was purely to answer MCR Warrior's post.

A quick sidestep OT.
A shame TfL that didn't perpetuate "Steam on the Met".
The annual event was a highlight of each spring for me, back in the mid 1990s.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Watched Ep2 this evening,about 60% of the show had very little to do with railways. It has gone into Portillo mode only without the pink jacketed one.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Wrexham Lager lays claim to being the first lager brewed in Britain in 1882: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrexham_Lager

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Wrexham Lager lays claim to being the first lager brewed in Britain in 1882: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrexham_Lager

Does the Wiki article actually say that? First lager brewery perhaps? Think whatever "German Style" beer product was being produced at the Anglo Bavarian brewery in Shepton Mallet was actually a few years before that, albeit it wasn't all they were producing there.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Yes the first lager brewery is the claim. There are plenty of references online to Shepton Mallet's claim being disputed. This article claims that the brewery at Shepton Mallet never brewed lager and the first purpose-built lager brewery in Britain was the Austro-Bavarian Brewery in Tottenham: https://zythophile.co.uk/2010/05/24/so-what-was-the-first-purpose-built-lager-brewery-in-the-uk/

 

[DelW]

Then we had a reference to "steam-hauled tube trains" in the section about Verney Junction! I think this station was technically part of London Underground only from 1933 to 1936, when the line from Aylesbury closed. Did LT ever show it on their maps?

That jarred with me too. I think "steam hauled Underground trains" would just about have been acceptable, remembering that steam worked the Met beyond Rickmansworth until the early 1960s (although only briefly to Verney Junction within the LT era).

Good question. The contemporary London Underground Transport maps of the period (Fred Stingemore, Harry Beck, et al) only ever seem to concentrate on Central London, vaguely pointing, off map, to 'far distant' places, such as Rickmansworth, and (possibly) further beyond.

From "Mr Beck's Underground Map" by Ken Garland, almost all Beck's versions went to Aylesbury but not beyond, a few ended at Rickmansworth with a listing of more distant stations. When others took over in the early 1960s the Met only went to Amersham, following the ending of steam services as above.

 

[Harpo]

Seen a couple of these and, like Portaloo's stuff, they're not actually about railways but are just flimsy travelogues about places that happen to be on the same bit of railway.

One small bonus is not having the mandatory travelogue feature of presenters made to do silly stuff along the way such as dancing badly, learning to play the ethnic Rutland butt whistle, donning Clacton's national costume of head hanky and string vest, eating weird bits of dead animals or sea creatures disguised as local delicacies, etc..

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This Saturday's fourth episode (bring broadcast Saturday 12th October 2024 on Channel 4 at 8.20 p.m.) features the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line, and visits Strata Florida (= ruined abbey), a one-time milk factory at Pont Llanio (built 1937?), the abandoned tunnel at Pencader (988 yds long?), and Elvet Woollen Mill in the Teifi Valley.

 

[Western 52]

This Saturday's fourth episode (bring broadcast Saturday 12th October 2024 on Channel 4 at 8.20 p.m.) features the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line, and visits Strata Florida (= ruined abbey), a one-time milk factory at Pont Llanio (built 1937?), the abandoned tunnel at Pencader (988 yds long?), and Elvet Woollen Mill in the Teifi Valley.

Looking forward to that one as it's an area local to me.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

7/10 score intially -reduced to 3 by the end. Too much time wasted in endlessly showing you the map , and hyping up the "value" of traffic - not surprised that the flow of several milk tankers a day , and some bundles of cloth compared to the operating costs and infrastructure caused the lines demise. Largest settlement of 2,000 in Lampeter and a trickle of visitors to the impressive remains at Strata Florida.

Annoying and superfluous "tooting" of trains in the narrative.

Apart from that - some very fine colour archive film.

A green desert of territory - as far as population density is concerned. A billion or so to restore ? ....

 

[Rail Ranger]

The Carmarthen bypass looks to be a showstopper.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The Carmarthen bypass looks to be a showstopper.

Access into Aber not easy either. (someone suggested a tunnel under Pendinas Hill !)

 

[DDB]

I am enjoying the series but also agree it could be much better. (A lot of the interviews could have done with a second take as they often contradict themselves).
However what I find most interesting is that even when featuring people looking to reopen the lines it is very clear why they closed and are going to stay that way! As an example in episode one it was illuminating how much of the line out of Bath was single track so could never have been that busy.

 

[75A]

I've now deleted the record series from my TV, as to me each episode has been worse than the previous one, and I find the narrators voice very irritating.

To me it's as bad as the Secrets of the London Underground is good.

Just my opinion.

 

[Falcon1200]

This Saturday's fourth episode (bring broadcast Saturday 12th October 2024 on Channel 4 at 8.20 p.m.) features the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line,

While there is no doubting the enthusiasm of the re-opening campaigner, last night's episode at least performed a useful service in showing just why the idea is a total non-starter!

I'm still finding the series interesting, it was good to see Strata Florida, having heard of it but never having been there; Although I was slightly disappointed by how little is actually left - Not a patch on Tintern....

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Why was the portal of one end of the now abandoned Pencader tunnel built directly underneath a waterfall?

 

[DelW]

Why was the portal of one end of the now abandoned Pencader tunnel built directly underneath a waterfall?

I think there'd been some sort of flume (overhead channel) presumably carrying a stream over the cutting, which had partly collapsed.

I enjoyed the programme, it's a line I'm interested in as my cousin lives beside the trackbed south of Lampeter (though on a stretch they skipped over). The views of Strata Florida ruins, and the remains of the dairy at Pont Llanio, were new to me.

I've also read a bit about its construction. As is fairly well known, it was always financially hopeless, part was built as an intended route to Cardigan, part as an intended route to Llanidloes, both ran out of money and the Llanidloes line was built instead to Aberystwyth, as a cheaper option to try to get some income. Both companies spent most of their lives in receivership until GWR hoovered up the lot decades later. The milk traffic just about kept it functioning, and south of Pont Llanio that continued until 1973.

I think the train shown twice with blue and grey coaches was possibly a charter operated when freight was withdrawn, passenger service ended in 1964 so wouldn't have used blue and grey stock.

 

[Harpo]

As is fairly well known, it was always financially hopeless, part was built as an intended route to Cardigan, part as an intended route to Llanidloes, both ran out of money and the Llanidloes line was built instead to Aberystwyth, as a cheaper option to try to get some income.

It's certainly a fascinating area for railway history. As I understand it, abandoning the original intention of tunnelling to the Rheidol valley to reach Aberystwyth, instead of a later easier option to follow the Ystwyth, meant that the Vale Of Rheidol line needed to be built, giving us a narrow gauge line that survives today instead of a standard gauge line that probably wouldn't have survived. Luckily though, that marvellous HQ building at Llanidloes is still there.

 

[Western 52]

I think the train with blue and grey coaches shown in the episode was a DMU tour which ran in 1973. I think it was a 6 car cross-country set, possibly class 119.

 

[SquireBev]

I find the narrators voice very irritating.

The last straw for me was when she pronounced "epitome" to rhyme with "home". Does nobody check these things anymore?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I take it no one watched the 3rd episode on the Scarborough to Whitby line then?

If you didn't, well you didn't miss much. Like previous episodes, it followed a predictable format of a few seconds of drone footage, a bit of vintage film here and there and long interviews with people who lived or worked near the line. A shame really as it was a wonderfully scenic route and more emphasis on the scenery and the conversion of the line to a walking and cycle route would have made for a far more interesting programme.

And like others, I found the narrator poor, with little enthusiasm or knowledge of the subject. A proper rail enthusiast like Michael Palin would have been ideal.

Incidentally there's some wonderful archive footage of the last days of the line here.

 

[DDB]

I take it no one watched the 3rd episode on the Scarborough to Whitby line then?

If you didn't, well you didn't miss much. Like previous episodes, it followed a predictable format of a few seconds of drone footage, a bit of vintage film here and there and long interviews with people who lived or worked near the line. A shame really as it was a wonderfully scenic route and more emphasis on the scenery and the conversion of the line to a walking and cycle route would have made for a far more interesting programme.

And like others, I found the narrator poor, with little enthusiasm or knowledge of the subject. A proper rail enthusiast like Michael Palin would have been ideal but I suppose white middle class males don't tick the right boxes in TV land these days.

Incidentally there's some wonderful archive footage of the last days of the line here.

The narrator is a voice over artist rather than a railway researcher so I suspect she is reading what she is given.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I take it no one watched the 3rd episode on the Scarborough to Whitby line then?

I’ve seen them all so far. Liked the S&D one but found the episodes since have become lacklustre. Its not something I look forward to watching but watch for the sake of it as it’s vaguely railway.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This Saturday's episode (five of six) is on Saturday 19th October 2024 and begins in York, starting off with a look at chocolate production in the City. Also visited are the former RAF base at Full Sutton which opened in 1944; then "Railway King" George Hudson's one-time 12,000 acre country estate at Londesborough, acquired almost a century previously, before the programme ends up in Hull. This week's episode is at 7.15 p.m. on Channel 4.