Grand Central Abandoning Customers

[TUC]

No, the advice is generally also to use other means of transport or delay travel - so many won’t be on the train at all (having used other routes).




== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Oct 2024 ==

In the case of evening cancellations on longer distance operators like GC most passengers will be on their way home, so the notion of delaying travel is not meaningful.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Oct 2024 ==

No, the advice is generally also to use other means of transport or delay travel - so many won’t be on the train at all (having used other routes). Of those who order taxis, they will be spread between various platforms rather than all trying to use taxis ordered by the TOC (by which staff exactly?) via Cmac or similar.



And you have the expertise to know that an app like that can be produced *just like that*, do you?

Passengers can use commercially available apps, Uber, Bolt etc. all of which generate receipts. Why waste money reinventing the wheel? The majority of train travellers will be able to afford a taxi which is then reimbursed - even if it’s just shoving on a credit card and claim back with no bother. That then frees up TOC staff to book for those few who for what ever reason can’t.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Oct 2024 ==

No, I am saying that TOCs should have account arrangements with some of the existing apps that you reference above so that passengers can book via them in the event of disruption and the TOC be directly invoiced-or for a Rail version of such apps be developed in partnership with them on a white label basis.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, I am saying that TOCs should have account arrangements with some of the existing apps that you reference above so that passengers can book via them in the event of disruption and the TOC be directly invoiced-or for Rail version of such apps be developed in partnership with them on a white label basis.

I believe at least one airline has a corporate version of something like booking.com to which passengers are directed to book hotels in the event of disruption, making it easier for passengers and staff alike, and of course the flight itself can be rebooked via their app. I forget which one though.

 

[harz99]

I wrote earlier that 180114 hasn't been used since Sunday's problem, it appears to now be en route ECS from Crofton to King's Cross to replace the failed 180107, however after a late start in the ECS path it is now an hour or so late, hopefully the loss of time is due to pathing issues and not a fault...

Edit.
And of course never made it due to this afternoon's ECML problems and is presumably on its way back to York.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

My assumption was that the RRT providers (CMAC/FTS etc) had 24/7 stand-by coaches (their remit extends well beyond rail, so this isn't as silly as it may sound, especially when you consider how vast their client list is). I would have assumed something along the lines of strategically placed drivers and vehicles throughout the country, on the equivalent of paid permanent spare shifts.

No, it’s never been like that. The closest it came was probably in the days of companies like Fraser Eagle who were decent sized coach operators who would approach TOCs offering to do just that, provided nobody else got any work out of the TOC. They couldn’t (economically) deliver what they promised, so they had a second layer of “preferred” operators who got an enhanced rate of pay for running vehicles in FE’s livery, and then a range of alternative providers who ran in their own colours.

Before FE, it was basically a guy at the station ringing local operators on a rota, so you had a decent relationship with the TOC, and you billed a decent rate. It then went to a central office, Preston, in our case, who rang operators local to the issue, but you still got to bill what you wanted. When FE came along, it went fixed price, and the level of work dropped dramatically as it went to FE preferred operators, who could be pulled in from hundreds of miles away to cover work. However, this led to a bit of an issue, because if those Preferred Operators couldn’t do the work, the next level down don’t want to take it when they were expected to dig FE out of a hole for less money than someone else…

Correct me if I'm wrong but all rail replacement vehicles have to be accessible, even if more than one vehicle is used per timetabled departure. From reading other threads on this forum, there simply aren't enough operators or vehicles to go round.

That’s my understanding, but not all vehicles in an operators fleet have to be accessible. And given that those vehicles will have to be newer and cost more, they’re probably the ones that you’re trying to get as much use out of as possible, so they aren’t sitting spare, unlike the ones that don’t have wheelchair lifts…

I've been at work on a rest day less than 30 minutes after receiving a call before.

There's nothing stopping the bus drivers saying no, and nothing stopping train drivers saying no.

You're mistaking emergency cover with changes to rostered turns.

Possibly I am mistaking emergency cover and change of turn. Remember though, PCV drivers can’t say yes if they are resting - it’s legally mandated. If you google PSV375, there’s a pretty good explanation on the gov.uk website.

But this isn't how it used to be done. As I've said before, less than 10 years ago, if there was major disruption affecting rail only (eg: not something like major flooding), we would routinely have numerous coaches and RRT coordinators on site within 1-2 hours - which to my mind is a good performance. The point I am (and keep) making is that it used to be done that way, and the market from rail is still (in theory) there. What seems to be lacking is the will to do it (and yes, I accept this now comes at a higher price point, one which TOCs in particular seem unprepared to meet).

Yes, but see my earlier point about how things got concentrated into single operators/TOC contacts - much goodwill was lost, and the work just isn’t financially competitive with your own hires. Plus, as Tazi Hupefi says:

The bus/coach market is totally different from how it used to be, even just a few years ago. You can't compare 2024 with 2014.

It's a combination of factors, but one of the main things is stricter government regulations on buses being accessible and meeting certain standards - which ultimately means you need newer buses, which are both more expensive to buy and maintain. Rail Replacement used to have all manner of vehicles, from luxury coaches to double decker clapped out deathtraps - but at least it got you on the way.

You've also got emissions regulations in some areas, meaning huge extra charges if your bus/coach isn't the very latest in clean engine technology - which, again, means fleets have been reduced, and more costs going up there.

The other factor I think is significant is that there has been considerable consolidation in the coach market - lots of one man and his coach operations have gone/retired etc or been swallowed up in mergers/acquisitions as the costs become unbearable for smaller suppliers.

There's even more regulations on the way around rail replacement vehicles needing to be fitted with digital passenger information systems - which has already proved so impractical, the government has had to delay it's mandatory introduction.

TOCs have huge budgets and bills for rail replacement, but just like the taxis, it isn't a question of money - the entire market is knackered.

A great summary. Plus the ridiculous costs of fuel, plus driver CPC, plus increasing insurance, tyres, road tax…

The best way to make a small fortune running buses is to start with a large one, as they say. 10 years ago, there were 30+ sizeable (say 5 or more vehicles) coach operators within an hours drive of me. Now there are maybe 5, and the bulk of rail replacement isn’t run by any of them, but a bunch of bus enthusiasts with a preserved ALX300 service bus and a Scania service bus of some sort, both of which still have Class 6 MoTs for them to run day trips to vintage rallies, which relies on them having someone available with a PCV license, a CPC, and not having worked too many hours in their own job that week, because guess what? Those hours count towards their driving time too…

 

[357]

Possibly I am mistaking emergency cover and change of turn. Remember though, PCV drivers can’t say yes if they are resting - it’s legally mandated. If you google PSV375, there’s a pretty good explanation on the gov.uk website.

I understand there is a weekly rest for PCB drivers that we don't quite do in rail, but we would still have to say no if we hadn't had our rest period following our previous shift, or would work too many days, or would compromise our rest before our next shift etc

 

[TravelDream]

The enormous success of Ryanair et al show this is what customers actually want though...

The slight difference being what appears to be the greater rights for air passengers.

If you were on a hypothetical Stansted to Edinburgh flight and Ryanair cancelled it because the airplane went tech or ATC delays or whatever, you could buy a LNER ticket with absolute confidence they would have to pay out for that and any refreshments purchased by you because of the delay. You'd also likely be able to claim EU261 compensation (not ATC strikes, but yes for airline strikes and tech aircraft).

Airlines are also legally required to tell you your rights and I have found even Ryanair to be very good at that nowadays.

On the railway, it always seems to be the passenger's fault and the passenger's problem.

*I am not saying it always works perfectly. I had to send notice before action to '5 star' Qatar Airways once to get my 600 EUR per person plus refreshment costs reimbursed.

 

[harz99]

The unfortunate 180114 has again disgraced itself again this morning, having been failed at Wakefield. According to RTT brake issues being the reason..

 

[ainsworth74]

If you were on a hypothetical Stansted to Edinburgh flight and Ryanair cancelled it because the airplane went tech or ATC delays or whatever, you could buy a LNER ticket with absolute confidence they would have to pay out for that and any refreshments purchased by you because of the delay. You'd also likely be able to claim EU261 compensation (not ATC strikes, but yes for airline strikes and tech aircraft).

Airlines are also legally required to tell you your rights and I have found even Ryanair to be very good at that nowadays.

On the railway, it always seems to be the passenger's fault and the passenger's problem.

*I am not saying it always works perfectly. I had to send notice before action to '5 star' Qatar Airways once to get my 600 EUR per person plus refreshment costs reimbursed.

I had a 13 hour delay due to Ryanair once from Riga to Newcastle, aircraft suffered a mechanical issue on approach to Riga on its outward working (this would have been around 2100 ish on a Sunday night) and had to circle a few times whilst the crew worked on it, they got it down safely but around 2300 they updated that the flight was delayed until the following morning (I think we concluded that by the time a technician had fettled the fault the crew would have been out of hours).

Whilst queuing to get stamped back into Lativa by passport control, we booked a Hilton Garden Inn online for around £100, then jumped straight into a taxi and were in bed shortly after midnight. Following morning got breakfast for around £20 and a taxi back to the airport. Ryanair paid out the EU261 compensation and reimbursed the hotel, breakfast and both taxi fares without quibble.

They have a reputation (and often deservedly so) but they sent an email with a clear statement of the legal position once it was clear there would be a hefty delay, they made it extremely easy to make the relevant claims via their website and paid out swiftly once the claims were made.

Would Grand Central do the same (or any TOC)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would Grand Central do the same (or any TOC)?

I've had a similar experience with easyJet - the delay was annoying (though my manager was very reasonable and didn't make me take an extra day holiday for it!) but I couldn't fault how they sorted it out. Decent quality hotel sorted, taxi to the hotel offered (though I walked as it was on-airport), breakfast included, and a "ghost flight" the following morning (not on the displays, we were just told what gate to go to and when and there it was!)

I don't think I've ever had the same level of quality from the railway - I've generally had taxis in preference to strandings but have usually had to push for them* - and even well before present woes I once saw the last Euston-Crewe (delayed about 3 hours due to a fatality) terminated at Bletchley and everyone tipped out into an unstaffed station to fend completely for themselves. I don't doubt some kipped on the floor - at least Bletchley has the heated waiting room open all night because there is no other way to the platforms than through it, though the toilets are locked when the staff go home. It was absolutely appalling - no communication until "we are now arriving at Bletchley, this train will terminate here due to the severe delay, all change please" and the guard disappearing off as quickly as he could!

* Aside from BR days when if you went into the customer service office at Preston with a missed Ormskirk connection a taxi chit for a Hackney carriage would be quickly produced because the delay would be over an hour - try that now!

 

[800001]

I had a 13 hour delay due to Ryanair once from Riga to Newcastle, aircraft suffered a mechanical issue on approach to Riga on its outward working (this would have been around 2100 ish on a Sunday night) and had to circle a few times whilst the crew worked on it, they got it down safely but around 2300 they updated that the flight was delayed until the following morning (I think we concluded that by the time a technician had fettled the fault the crew would have been out of hours).

Whilst queuing to get stamped back into Lativa by passport control, we booked a Hilton Garden Inn online for around £100, then jumped straight into a taxi and were in bed shortly after midnight. Following morning got breakfast for around £20 and a taxi back to the airport. Ryanair paid out the EU261 compensation and reimbursed the hotel, breakfast and both taxi fares without quibble.

They have a reputation (and often deservedly so) but they sent an email with a clear statement of the legal position once it was clear there would be a hefty delay, they made it extremely easy to make the relevant claims via their website and paid out swiftly once the claims were made.

Would Grand Central do the same (or any TOC)?

I had same with BA at Salzburg,flight back to London.

Had to rebook flights with another operator as no BA flights for 2 days, sorted hotel and train transport to next Airport.

BA paid the required EU compensation and refunded me all expenses with 9 days, no quibble, and was a very simple process.

I was impressed, certainly after reading horror stories.

The railways really need to up there game on disruption handling.

One person on platform at Kings Cross trying to book hotels when there is hundreds of people wanting it, and if you do book your own hotel, it took LNER, 2 weeks to acknowledge I was due a refund in hotel, and then a further 2 weeks to pay the money. (From raising the BACS payment they say allow for 14 days, lo and behold exactly 14 days to pay). So from having to book a hotel room getting a refund it took LNER 4 weeks to repay.

 

[BAFRA77]

I have to commend Ryanair for the only time I was subject to a lengthy delay.

Was flying back with them from Oslo a few years back - and was due to fly out of Rygge airport (it's on the eastern side of the Oslofjord) - the airport now, sadly, is closed.

Got there by train - and was sat at the gate as a massive fog bank rolled in - rendering visibility down to pretty much zero.

Our flight was coming in from an inbound service from London - and had to divert to the other Ryanair Oslo airport at the time in Sandefjord (Torp) - which is located on the western side of the fjord.

Ryanair sprung into action - chartered several coaches for us - bussed us over to Sandefjord where we caught the flight as intended.

 

[Bikeman78]

Presumably for deaf passengers (or those wearing headphones). Possibly also an issue on double-deckers. (Just guessing.)

Perhaps. Given how often the system doesn't work on Cardiff Bus, on routes that they run all day every day, I don't hold out much hope for such a system working at all well on rail replacements. As I said above, it will diminish the pool of available vehicles and make a bad problem worse.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2024 ==

It's something that makes absolute sense for stage carriage buses - makes them orders of magnitude easier to use when in an unfamiliar area, even for those without disabilities.

The problem is if I recall legal precedent set a few years back that considers RRBs the same as stage carriage buses, which they're very much not. There could do with being legislation which turns them back into private hires legally, though I doubt it's a Parliamentary precedent it could perhaps be sneaked into the GBR enabling legislation. The issue is similar to the accessibility one - as long as the OPERATION is accessible (e.g. a wheelchair taxi is provided on demand to any wheelchair user so they are never required to wait longer than an able bodied passenger) there is no need for all individual vehicles to be so, unlike for a stage carriage bus operation which is not managed in the same way and you do want wheelchair users to be able to show up and be guaranteed to board (aside from if there are already other wheelchair users in the spaces or the bus is simply completely full).

In my experience, people who don't know the area will ask the driver for help, or use the map on their mobile. If you don't know the area, then most bus stop names are meaningless. I agree with your second paragraph.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2024 ==

Somebody asked upthread about what the issue was with 180114 at Northallerton, still no wiser, however the unit hasn't been out since it occurred so not a quick fix by the looks of things.

It appears to have been at the platform at Northallerton for around 30 minutes. It delayed the following TPE by a similar amount of time.

Lumo, didn't they just not run at all last Sunday...

That's fine. If the lack of service is known beforehand, then people will make other plans. That's better than getting stuck part way through a journey.

 

[noddingdonkey]

They have a reputation (and often deservedly so) but they sent an email with a clear statement of the legal position once it was clear there would be a hefty delay, they made it extremely easy to make the relevant claims via their website and paid out swiftly once the claims were made.

Would Grand Central do the same (or any TOC)?

I had a lengthy delay on a GC service stuck behind an LNER service which brought the wires down last year, there were onboard announcements about passing the threshold for 100% Delay Repay - although in this case GC would presumably be passing on the bill to either LNER or Network Rail.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I had a lengthy delay on a GC service stuck behind an LNER service which brought the wires down last year, there were onboard announcements about passing the threshold for 100% Delay Repay - although in this case GC would presumably be passing on the bill to either LNER or Network Rail.

Delay Repay ‘costs’ do not get passed on. They are not part of the general performance regime.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2024 ==

I noticed on twitter today that Grand Centrals 1A61 1213 Sunderland to Kings Cross terminated at Northallerton due to a train fault.

GCs advise on Twitter was:-


Also there 1N96 1738 London Kings Cross to Sunderland due to the above train fault, there advise, again from their twitter account:-



Basically today GC have abandoned customers, no ticket acceptance, no replacement transport.

Out of interest, legally where does a customer stand in a situation like this?

So, getting back to the very first post, can we assume that nationalised TransPennine refused ticket acceptance for stranded passengers from Northallerton? If this was the case Grand Central had very few options beyond ‘stranding’ a trainload of passengers given the very limited taxi, bus and hotel facilities immediately available a little way out of a relatively small town.
It is obviously a pity that TransPennine couldn’t at least take passengers forward to York where there would have been more facilities to assist.
Do we know why TransPennine refused to help?
(I am well aware that capacity forward to London was very limited that day.)

 

[Bikeman78]

So, getting back to the very first post, can we assume that nationalised TransPennine refused ticket acceptance for stranded passengers from Northallerton? If this was the case Grand Central had very few options beyond ‘stranding’ a trainload of passengers given the very limited taxi, bus and hotel facilities immediately available a little way out of a relatively small town.
It is obviously a pity that TransPennine couldn’t at least take passengers forward to York where there would have been more facilities to assist.
Do we know why TransPennine refused to help?
(I am well aware that capacity forward to London was very limited that day.)

I am going to hazard a guess that plenty of people simply piled on to the following three car Transpennine train to York. The likely overcrowding renders ticket acceptance a moot point as a ticket check is unlikely. The last thing most guards will want, on a late and overcrowded train, is an argument with passengers. It was at Thirsk for three minutes which tends to support the overcrowding theory. I must stress this is guesswork on my part.

 

[800001]

Delay Repay ‘costs’ do not get passed on. They are not part of the general performance regime.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2024 ==


So, getting back to the very first post, can we assume that nationalised TransPennine refused ticket acceptance for stranded passengers from Northallerton? If this was the case Grand Central had very few options beyond ‘stranding’ a trainload of passengers given the very limited taxi, bus and hotel facilities immediately available a little way out of a relatively small town.
It is obviously a pity that TransPennine couldn’t at least take passengers forward to York where there would have been more facilities to assist.
Do we know why TransPennine refused to help?
(I am well aware that capacity forward to London was very limited that day.)

TransPennine did take the customers to York!
Network Rail approached TPE and they granted it.
Also most services from Middlesbrough are 6 car sets now adays.

 

[Watershed]

So, getting back to the very first post, can we assume that nationalised TransPennine refused ticket acceptance for stranded passengers from Northallerton? If this was the case Grand Central had very few options beyond ‘stranding’ a trainload of passengers given the very limited taxi, bus and hotel facilities immediately available a little way out of a relatively small town.
It is obviously a pity that TransPennine couldn’t at least take passengers forward to York where there would have been more facilities to assist.
Do we know why TransPennine refused to help?
(I am well aware that capacity forward to London was very limited that day.)

Even if TPE "refused" ticket acceptance (regarding which we have no evidence - I see no particular reason they would have done so as the Saltburn services aren't as busy north of York) this is not an excuse for the way GC handled things.

Their conductor could, and should, have been issuing zero fare tickets to passengers to allow them to take any other company to get to their destination. And GC should have been clear in their communications that any reasonable expenses incurred in buying new tickets would be reimbursed. They failed to do so, leaving people under the impression they would be 'on their own'.

 

[Bikeman78]

TransPennine did take the customers to York!
Network Rail approached TPE and they granted it.
Also most services from Middlesbrough are 6 car sets now adays.

The train in question is shown as a three car on Realtime Trains.

 

[800001]

The train in question is shown as a three car on Realtime Trains.

Ok. But TPE assisted.

 

[Horizon22]

Either way, I definitely get it - "it" is that no company should be allowed to trade without respecting the legal requirements and contractual requirements of doing so, because that is both illegal/unlawful (depending on whether the law is infringed or a contract) and immoral.

So we should stop all trains running then? Because other operators - I can name SWR, GWR and GA who have had late or weekend incidents - have equally struggled to get short-notice transport and have been unable to provide ticket acceptance because a) other routes are impacted, b) associated engineering works or c) there is no alternative (e.g. local buses have finished by 2000-2100).

There is an element of finance - paying the going rate (an ongoing issue for planned RRB) or a premium rate during disruption (i.e begging local bus operators to come and help with huge rates) but ultimately someone is going to have to sanction that cost on the day and it is also going to be scrutinised by TOC accounts or more likely, the DfT.

And even if they did offer to pay a premium rate, there is the unavoidable - and nobody here has suggested an alternative - issue that taxi drivers or bus drivers (who are asked to work short-notice overtime) might just refuse the job and the TOC can't compel them to do so.

 

[trek]

Would Grand Central do the same (or any TOC)?

In general, yes. They have to and are generally pretty good at doing so. There are not that many complaints about failures to pay out around these forums and elsewhere ("happy" customers don't complain) - the main complaint here is about lack of information and on the day action.

A lot of the issue here stems from GC not informing passengers of this. Once upon a time, they used to be very clear and tell people specifically to buy LNER tickets and contact GC customer services afterwards to claim the money back. They still have to do this (or some other some way to get to your destination - flight, bus, taxi, whatever/overnight accomodation).

I expect they are not telling passengers of this because it is extremely expensive - even more so now that LNER's only key walk up fares are anytimes. They would rather passengers go away and try another time and withholding this information makes people more likely to do that.

I had a 13 hour delay due to Ryanair once from Riga to Newcastle, aircraft suffered a mechanical issue on approach to Riga on its outward working (this would have been around 2100 ish on a Sunday night) and had to circle a few times whilst the crew worked on it, they got it down safely but around 2300 they updated that the flight was delayed until the following morning (I think we concluded that by the time a technician had fettled the fault the crew would have been out of hours).

Whilst queuing to get stamped back into Lativa by passport control, we booked a Hilton Garden Inn online for around £100, then jumped straight into a taxi and were in bed shortly after midnight. Following morning got breakfast for around £20 and a taxi back to the airport. Ryanair paid out the EU261 compensation and reimbursed the hotel, breakfast and both taxi fares without quibble.

They have a reputation (and often deservedly so) but they sent an email with a clear statement of the legal position once it was clear there would be a hefty delay, they made it extremely easy to make the relevant claims via their website and paid out swiftly once the claims were made.

Most train passengers do not know their rights in this regard and there is less regulatory enforcement, whereas I would suggest that airlines have got much better, because there is now a huge amount of consumer guideance out there over EU261 and regular regulatory enforcement against airlines for failing to comply.

I would also suggest airline passengers are much more likely to try to claim, because many will incur very significant extra and totally unavoidable costs in these situations - hotels, taxis, foreign country etc - having already paid a lot of money already for their trip. Additionally when going abroad, most people have travel insurance and are aware of it - if a passenger tries to go to them, their insurer will almost certainly send the costs back to the operator that caused the delay - much less likely on a domestic trip.

Whereas on a domestic train, many passengers are likely to be in a more "familiar" environment and, for example, will simply head home or back to where they were staying - perhaps back to their friends/family, perhaps their work covers it (this is not *every* case of course - I am making a general point).

 

[BankQuayLowLvl]

Having previously been caught out (last year) by GC when the final service of the day from Eaglescliffe-Kings Cross was cancelled, there was no ticket acceptance in place and the guard on the LNER service, knowing this, informed us that we were obligated to buy full price tickets and get them reimbursed. Good job I had £180 readily available to cover my partner and me, and GC did reimburse the new tickets plus the original tickets through delay repay.

Evidently it may have been possible to argue the Conditions of Carriage case to the LNER guard, and I suspect that we'd not have been turfed off had we been able to pay. Presumably this is LNER protecting their revenue/extracting as much from Grand Central as they're able - but it hardly makes for a good passenger experience.

 

[trek]

Having previously been caught out (last year) by GC when the final service of the day from Eaglescliffe-Kings Cross was cancelled, there was no ticket acceptance in place and the guard on the LNER service, knowing this, informed us that we were obligated to buy full price tickets and get them reimbursed. Good job I had £180 readily available to cover my partner and me, and GC did reimburse the new tickets plus the original tickets through delay repay.

Evidently it may have been possible to argue the Conditions of Carriage case to the LNER guard, and I suspect that we'd not have been turfed off had we been able to pay. Presumably this is LNER protecting their revenue/extracting as much from Grand Central as they're able - but it hardly makes for a good passenger experience.

And aligns with what I said: Grand Central are obligated to get you to your destination, and pay for it.

I totally agree on the £180. Why does the passenger have to see this problem and go round in circles, when there could easily be a behind the scenes process for this. Oh, there is: ticket acceptance, which LNER regularly refuse to grant.

LNER regularly do not abide by the Conditions of Carriage in this regard and there is no punishment for failing to do so, a problem in itself.

 

[43066]

Even if TPE "refused" ticket acceptance (regarding which we have no evidence - I see no particular reason they would have done so as the Saltburn services aren't as busy north of York) this is not an excuse for the way GC handled things.

Their conductor could, and should, have been issuing zero fare tickets to passengers to allow them to take any other company to get to their destination. And GC should have been clear in their communications that any reasonable expenses incurred in buying new tickets would be reimbursed. They failed to do so, leaving people under the impression they would be 'on their own'.

A couple of points I’d make in response to the above:

We haven’t heard from anyone who was on the train, to my knowledge. We don’t know what was said on train to the passengers concerned, nor what “11th hour” arrangements GC may have made with TPE - unless anyone can shed any light?

How do you know what the GC guard did or said? It seems a little premature to make pronouncements on what they should or shouldn’t have done.

I realise there is a desire to find fault with GC here but, looking at matters objectively, it appears (tweet aside) that the situation was actually handled perfectly sensibly. Nobody was stranded and those on the train were conveyed onwards by other means.

 

[Meerkat]

I believe at least one airline has a corporate version of something like booking.com to which passengers are directed to book hotels in the event of disruption, making it easier for passengers and staff alike, and of course the flight itself can be rebooked via their app. I forget which one though.

This sort of thing is definitely available as it’s effectively the same as some corporate travel systems where you have to book through the approved system, from an approved list of hotels.
You have to put some kind of employee ID in so the system could presumably be changed to accept ticket numbers.

TOCs really should have a legal duty to fully explain the passengers rights, even if it was after proving you had a ticket. It would then be in their interest to set up, and then walk the passenger through, the cheapest way of legally doing this.
A piece of paper/clear web page would also assist them in arguing their rights with any intransigent guards.

 

[Travelmonkey]

But it takes a certain amount of ability and self-confidence to do that.

Agreed I'm wrestling with do I Lawyer up against a certain TOC or take the refund of £40 for 2 acsess failures, I know I should but taking things to court is alot of spoons to coin a autism metaphor.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Agreed I'm wrestling with do I Lawyer up against a certain TOC or take the refund of £40 for 2 acsess failures, I know I should but taking things to court is alot of spoons to coin a autism metaphor.

Are we take it in this thread that the ‘certain TOC’ is Grand Central?

 

[Travelmonkey]

Are we take it in this thread that the ‘certain TOC’ is Grand Central?

Surprisingly no, although they do have some trains formerly of the TOC in question

 

[jayah]

This is why I won’t use these open access operators, they basically are Ryanair on rails, bare minimum service for bare minimum cost with zero toss given when things go wrong. Unfortunately we’re promised these charlatans right across the network in the future.

The continued decline in public service!

Pretty much all operators do the same now, including British Airways and Eurostar. Sort it out yourself and claim it back. You can book another flight or hotel in seconds on your phone, trying to have the local staff organise it all themselves would take hours.

 

[Topological]

Pretty much all operators do the same now, including British Airways and Eurostar. Sort it out yourself and claim it back. You can book another flight or hotel in seconds on your phone, trying to have the local staff organise it all themselves would take hours.

As long as they pay without quibble then it is the best way.

If TOCs did indeed set up a website that would only show valid options then that would be a good half-way house. Passengers could book and the site could bill the TOC.

As mentioned upthread, there are many companies using such systems for their corporate bookings.