CrossCountry's Driver Shortage

[dangie]

Well you presumably signed up to a contract specifying 24/7. As above, Sundays are still entirely voluntary at some train operators (by no means everywhere), and the reason for that is because the industry has consistently recruited people on that basis - and still is for some grades in some locations!

Yes I did, that was because the industry I worked in required 24/7 working. That is my point. I find it quite unbelievable that any industry which requires weekend working relies on voluntary working to provide the service.

 

[43066]

Yes I did, that was because the industry I worked in required 24/7 working. That is my point. I find it quite unbelievable that any industry which requires weekend working relies on voluntary working to provide the service.

But the railway staff concerned didn’t. They weren’t asked to, specifically because it didn’t suit the industry to recruit them on that basis. The Sundays issue is a bit of a red herring, because, as we are seeing at XC, the bigger issue at some TOCs is the reliance on overtime on other days of the week!

I can’t speak for the power industry but many (most?) industries rely on some degree of voluntary overtime to deliver their service, whether at the weekend or during the week. That is perfectly sensible however, if you’re going to do that, you need to (a) offer sufficient incentives to get staff to volunteer to work, and (b) not allow industrial relations to deteriorate to the point where many simply wish to spend as little time at work as possible.

 

[Bald Rick]

One month for the ex WMT Drivers who transferred across to XC but three months for everybody else.

Ah, that explains it, thanks.

 

[GoneSouth]

One month for the ex WMT Drivers who transferred across to XC but three months for everybody else.

How does anybody ever keep track of the variations in conditions of service and the TUPE terms that move around with people. Completely bonkers

 

[sikejsudjek]

The sooner the contract is taken off them the better. This hasn't happened out of the blue. Abysmal overcrowded services even if they do run.

 

[brad465]

It will get better on 2 January, as it always does. For XC it will also get better progressively through to April.

What happens in April is anyones guess. Everyone is waiting to see how many people choose to retire when the new pension estimates come through. XC may suffer more than most as their drivers only have a month’s notice.

What happens on the 2nd January that means things always get better then? April being the new tax year is what I assume why other posters refer to things getting better then, for sake of tax take on their pay.

 

[Bald Rick]

What happens on the 2nd January that means things always get better then? April being the new tax year is what I assume why other posters refer to things getting better then, for sake of tax take on their pay.

Well its the reverse of what happens now; people don’t take as much time off (leaving gaps in the roster), and some people are more willing to work the extra shifts, as they also don’t have ‘other things to do’, and in some cases bills to pay (although that will be less of an issue this year).

 

[paulmch]

What happens on the 2nd January that means things always get better then? April being the new tax year is what I assume why other posters refer to things getting better then, for sake of tax take on their pay.

A number of factors but a big one is the end of the Birmingham Christmas market. Weekend late shifts in November and December are extremely challenging, to the extent that for many people even very generous rest day work payments aren't a big enough incentive.

 

[12LDA28C]

The sooner the contract is taken off them the better. This hasn't happened out of the blue. Abysmal overcrowded services even if they do run.

You can hardly blame overcrowding entirely on XC when the DfT is in charge of stock provision (eg removing HSTs from service)

 

[whoosh]

What happens on the 2nd January that means things always get better then? April being the new tax year is what I assume why other posters refer to things getting better then, for sake of tax take on their pay.

That is what I was getting at with April yes.
From January through to March, if it's anything like my TOC, then this part of the year sees the most 'floating' of an allocated annual leave week converting it into ad-hoc days. This is allowed at my TOC for one annual leave week only. I don't know if Cross Country have the same arrangements, but if so, things may improve a bit from January.

 

[Russel]

The sooner the contract is taken off them the better. This hasn't happened out of the blue. Abysmal overcrowded services even if they do run.

Arriva have to take a fair amount of the blame for the state XC is in, but let's not forget they are only doing what the DFT have told/allowed them to do over the last few years.

I left XC in 2010, it wasn't too bad back then, but seeing the mess it's been left to get into now, is just sad.

 

[Trainman40083]

Arriva have to take a fair amount of the blame for the state XC is in, but let's not forget they are only doing what the DFT have told/allowed them to do over the last few years.

I left XC in 2010, it wasn't too bad back then, but seeing the mess it's been left to get into now, is just sad.

I can imagine..XC to DfT we need greater capacity... Treasury says NO. What about a box of paperclips? If you saved paper, you wouldn't need them. I suspect a few TOCs will be glad to offload these management contracts. A few may set up open access operations.

 

[1D54]

And would you expect Arriva to be one of them? They don't really have a great record in the UK of late, bus operations sold off and I'd put a pound to a penny management can't wait to hand the keys back. I'm surprised they haven't done it already.

 

[Trainman40083]

And would you expect Arriva to be one of them? They don't really have a great record in the UK of late, bus operations sold off and I'd put a pound to a penny management can't wait to hand the keys back. I'm surprised they haven't done it already.

I would imagine the management are well hacked off. After all the DfT pulls the strings, the TOC gets the grief, and in some cases, abuse. I really can't see things getting any better when they are effectively nationalised (well under Operator of Last Resort)

 

[ExRes]

I would have thought in BR, Sundays weren't as much of an issue as drivers (and to a lesser extent other staff) were less well paid and Sunday working with its enhanced allowances made their income 'look good' so they worked them. Now that salaries are higher there is less incentive to work on Sundays if its all voluntary.

Exactly, when I started in the early 90s the basic rate was so poor that we worked the maximum 13 out of 14 days to take home a decent wage, there may have been more trains running but they were often staffed by knackered drivers and guards, very H&S

 

[duffield]

I would imagine the management are well hacked off. After all the DfT pulls the strings, the TOC gets the grief, and in some cases, abuse. I really can't see things getting any better when they are effectively nationalised (well under Operator of Last Resort)

Just as a minor point, as of 4th December it's no longer called the "Operator of Last Resort" (which would be silly under the changed circumstances).

Quote from link below:

DfT OLR Holdings Limited is now called DfT Operator Limited

DfT OLR Holdings Limited

www.gov.uk

The new organisation can be found here:

DfT Operator Limited

DfT Operator Limited has responsibility for train operators’ ownership in England. DfT Operator Limited is a public corporation of the Department for Transport .

www.gov.uk

 

[A S Leib]

Do CrossCountry only have a driver shortage or does it extend to train managers as well? What are XC's rules on staffing for combined trains?

 

[Jimini]

combined trains?

What's one of those?

 

[duffield]

Do CrossCountry only have a driver shortage or does it extend to train managers as well? What are XC's rules on staffing for combined trains?

We've been told here a number of times that XC require both units of a double voyager to have at least one train crew member, so the rear unit may be locked out if there's no-one to staff it. However, I don't know if that applies to the class 170 routes (Nottingham-Cardiff and Birmingham-Stanstead), few of them run in pairs anyhow.

I've seen some recent cancellations due to staff shortages (other than drivers), but they are rare compared to "driver shortage". Can't remember if they were described as "a shortage of train managers" or something less specific.

The non-driver shortage may well grow more acute if/when they attempt to run extra services and more double voyagers as the rest of the 12 extra units arrive from Arriva.

 

[class 9]

A number of factors but a big one is the end of the Birmingham Christmas market. Weekend late shifts in November and December are extremely challenging, to the extent that for many people even very generous rest day work payments aren't a big enough incentive.

Agreed, for onboard staff the chronic overcrowding & widespread poor passenger behaviour means in the run up to Christmas very few staff volunteer for overtime.

 

[Russel]

Agreed, for onboard staff the chronic overcrowding & widespread poor passenger behaviour means in the run up to Christmas very few staff volunteer for overtime.

The last two Saturdays, I've travelled from Bristol to Tamworth on XC, Bristol to New Street is lovely and peaceful but as soon as you pull into New Street, the once a year drinkers pile on and it's awful.

 

[PG]

I've taken a look back at this thread from earlier in the year, when the MD was suddenly defenestrated. Posts #38 and #43 are quite informative, and I'd imagine staff morale is at rock bottom.

 

[D1015]

Is it just a shortage of drivers though? Asking as have observed XC have engaged in recruitment of TMs and SCs based at Bham New Street and furthermore, from a friend who has wished to join the railway and applied for the latter the application process has been frighteningly rapid compared to the usual "railway time".

 

[WAB]

I have had dealings with managers at many TOCs, and XC is the only one where the atmosphere was grim even when around stakeholders from outside the company. Expressing an interest at working for XC is likely to raise eyebrows amongst railway colleagues. Looking at who has been recruited for the HQ staff over the last few years also tells its own story.

Quite aside from problems with the management, you also have to consider the morale issues resulting from the challenges facing the organisation. The unique operating position - 11 traincrew depots across 2170 route kilometres (third only to Northern and ScotRail who both operate within smaller areas). A fleet which is totally unsuitable for the demands on their network and has been for more than twenty years. The worst cancellation rate in the country. Punctuality only worsted by Avanti and Grand Central.

All this in a TOC which comes from a long line of neglect. From slightly peripheral inter-company through coaches and joint services pre-war, post-war into a growing service under a joint management committee but a lower-priority service shared between multiple regions, then a junior partner in the InterCity Midland Mainline / CrossCountry subsector, then an even more junior partner under Virgin, then into the more distinct but still stunted TOC that survives to this day.

When the only fixes to the fundamental problems facing XC are dependent on the thus-far disinterested Treasury and DfT, it's easy to see why staff morale is so poor.

 

[paulmch]

We've been told here a number of times that XC require both units of a double voyager to have at least one train crew member, so the rear unit may be locked out if there's no-one to staff it. However, I don't know if that applies to the class 170 routes (Nottingham-Cardiff and Birmingham-Stanstead), few of them run in pairs anyhow.

170s only require the driver in the front portion and the conductor in the rear - is there some feature of the Voyagers that means this isn't acceptable?

 

[duffield]

170s only require the driver in the front portion and the conductor in the rear - is there some feature of the Voyagers that means this isn't acceptable?

I'm not sure, but I have a vague memory it might relate to door operation differences.

Anyhow I've certainly got the impression from posts on here that the driver does not count for the purposes of having a crew member in each unit, but that impression may be wrong, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can confirm or refute that.

On the 170's, I knew that EMR followed the practice you described on 170 double units since I've been on EMR services where the guard has made announcements to that effect (that he was only available in one portion of the train). But I wasn't sure if XC had different rules.

 

[Snow1964]

170s only require the driver in the front portion and the conductor in the rear - is there some feature of the Voyagers that means this isn't acceptable?

I heard only relevant if they choose to call at stations with platforms so short that front of back unit is not in the platform. Apart from that it is apparently nothing technical, but their preference or some agreement

 

[Russel]

Is there really a staff shortage?

I've just had a look at the Arriva/XC recruitment site and I can't see any train crew roles to apply for!

 

[GoneSouth]

Is there really a staff shortage?

I've just had a look at the Arriva/XC recruitment site and I can't see any train crew roles to apply for!

If you were about to be relieved of your responsibilities of running a contact if any kind would you recruit? I certainly wouldn’t bother with all that hassle. They know the game is up so why should they care now.

I might be wrong but to a passenger that’s how it looks

 

[43066]

I heard only relevant if they choose to call at stations with platforms so short that front of back unit is not in the platform. Apart from that it is apparently nothing technical, but their preference or some agreement

Ultimately, though, the working arrangements were agreed to by the company, haven’t changed for many years, and the operator should have recruited accordingly.

If you were about to be relieved of your responsibilities of running a contact if any kind would you recruit? I certainly wouldn’t bother with all that hassle. They know the game is up so why should they care now.

I might be wrong but to a passenger that’s how it looks

It has been discussed on here that they have been recruiting heavily for a long time. Also keep in mind that, along with other operators, they recruit on a talent pool basis, so no live job adverts doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t taking people from pool to training school. However there is a limited capacity so this is a bottleneck.

Large volumes of recruitment also don’t necessarily lead to rapid increases in net numbers of crew available when you have an ageing workforce, retirements etc.