Crewe Resignalling Dec 27-Jan 2

[LNW-GW Joint]

I see there are no Avanti trains to/from Liverpool today, with no services through Crewe because of resignalling there.
There are replacement buses to/from from Stoke, serving Crewe/Liverpool/Chester/Preston, to pick up Manchester-Euston trains from there.
LNR has a similar bus Liverpool South Parkway to Stafford to pick up there.
Preston/Glasgow are served by a couple of trains which run Euston-Stoke-Manchester-Golborne-Wigan.
North Wales gets a few Chester-Holyhead shuttles.

It's unusual for Liverpool to lose London services.
The Chat Moss line is open so you would expect a service via Manchester, but none operates.

Is this the resignalling that eliminates Basford Hall Jn box?
There are no trains at all today at Crewe, so what is going on on the north side?
I can't remember Crewe being closed completely since the 1985 resignalling.

 

[The Planner]

I see there are no Avanti trains to/from Liverpool today, with no services through Crewe because of resignalling there.
There are replacement buses to/from from Stoke, serving Crewe/Liverpool/Chester/Preston, to pick up Manchester-Euston trains from there.
LNR has a similar bus Liverpool South Parkway to Stafford to pick up there.
Preston/Glasgow are served by a couple of trains which run Euston-Stoke-Manchester-Golborne-Wigan.
North Wales gets a few Chester-Holyhead shuttles.

It's unusual for Liverpool to lose London services.
The Chat Moss line is open so you would expect a service via Manchester, but none operates.

Is this the resignalling that eliminates Basford Hall Jn?
There are no trains at all today at Crewe, so what is going on on the north side?
I can't remember Crewe being closed completely since the 1985 resignalling.

Yes, signalling work will also take out the fringes as its all the boxes on the Independents that go. You can't fit two diverted Avanti via 13/14 at Picc without decimating the existing services. There will likely be the odd Intermodal via Macclesfield as well so the capacity isnt there.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looks like every day is different through Crewe until Jan 3.
Once the routes to Stafford/Shrewsbury reopen on Jan 1, the route via Weaver Jn closes for a couple of days.
While the Stafford line is closed, London/Birmingham services are routed via Alsager and Stoke.
Wiring Crewe-Kidsgrove for WCRM is proving its value again.

 

[Rhysdabeast]

I see there are no Avanti trains to/from Liverpool today, with no services through Crewe because of resignalling there.
There are replacement buses to/from from Stoke, serving Crewe/Liverpool/Chester/Preston, to pick up Manchester-Euston trains from there.
LNR has a similar bus Liverpool South Parkway to Stafford to pick up there.
Preston/Glasgow are served by a couple of trains which run Euston-Stoke-Manchester-Golborne-Wigan.
North Wales gets a few Chester-Holyhead shuttles.

It's unusual for Liverpool to lose London services.
The Chat Moss line is open so you would expect a service via Manchester, but none operates.

Is this the resignalling that eliminates Basford Hall Jn?
There are no trains at all today at Crewe, so what is going on on the north side?
I can't remember Crewe being closed completely since the 1985 resignalling.

Salop Goods, Sorting Sidings North and Basford Hall Jn have closed with the boxes set to be demolished. Everything transferred to Manchester ROC. Basford Hall Jn area now has the Area ID M7 and The Independent Lines now have the Area ID M8 in Network Rails open datafeeds. Basford Hall Junction has the same berths but just re-numbered and the 2 shunt signals on the Up Fast and Up Slow now have berths. The independent lines pretty much are the same as well but should hopefully come through the datafeeds now as with Salop Goods and Sorting Sidings North the datafeeds was pretty limited.

 

[M60lad]

And as usual while the works at Crewe were/are going on there's bound to be problems elsewhere and for some reason for the past couple of days there's been problems at Wolverhampton due to a fault with the signalling system although Cross Country Journey Check is saying due to engineering works not being finished on time.

Without going too much off topic does anyone know what is causing the problems at Wolverhampton?

 

[Mugby]

Looks like every day is different through Crewe until Jan 3.
Once the routes to Stafford/Shrewsbury reopen on Jan 1, the route via Weaver Jn closes for a couple of days.
While the Stafford line is closed, London/Birmingham services are routed via Alsager and Stoke.
Wiring Crewe-Kidsgrove for WCRM is proving its value again.

Kidsgrove - Crewe certainly is being put to good use on the 31st with Preston/Glasgow/Edinburgh services being routed that way.
I'm travelling north on the 31st and I see quite a lot of recovery time has been packed into the timetable with trains standing for about 10 minutes at Barthomley Crossover and almost 20 minutes at Crewe Station.

 

[Tilting007]

And as usual while the works at Crewe were/are going on there's bound to be problems elsewhere and for some reason for the past couple of days there's been problems at Wolverhampton due to a fault with the signalling system although Cross Country Journey Check is saying due to engineering works not being finished on time.

Without going too much off topic does anyone know what is causing the problems at Wolverhampton?

And a dewirement at Four Ashes overnight…

 

[AndrewE]

A self-congratulatory puff here: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...190m-overhaul-of-crewe-bottleneck-09-01-2025/

Network Rail completes ‘once in a generation’ £190M overhaul of Crewe bottleneck​

Crewe’s railway infrastructure has undergone a “once in a generation” upgrade following a £190M investment by Network Rail, aimed at enhancing both passenger and freight services at one of Britain’s busiest junctions.

but there are still only 3 approach lines into the station from the south... from 4 slow and fast lines and serving 5 through platforms, 2 through lines and 5 bays! It's no good saying that freights have gone off on the independant lines (the usual establishment justification,) I have frequently been delayed while conflicts at the S end are resolved.

 

[Watershed]

A self-congratulatory puff here: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...190m-overhaul-of-crewe-bottleneck-09-01-2025/

but there are still only 3 approach lines into the station from the south... from 4 slow and fast lines and serving 5 through platforms, 2 through lines and 5 bays! It's no good saying that freights have gone off on the independant lines (the usual establishment justification,) I have frequently been delayed while conflicts at the S end are resolved.

Modern signalling naturally has a lifespan of about that length, so it's pretty meaningless self-congratulation to celebrate replacing life-expired assets.

And it's hardly "digital" or "modern" signalling. That would require ETCS, which is decades away from making an appearance here, now that they have just resignalled it with last-century technology.

 

[The Planner]

A self-congratulatory puff here: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...190m-overhaul-of-crewe-bottleneck-09-01-2025/

but there are still only 3 approach lines into the station from the south... from 4 slow and fast lines and serving 5 through platforms, 2 through lines and 5 bays! It's no good saying that freights have gone off on the independant lines (the usual establishment justification,) I have frequently been delayed while conflicts at the S end are resolved.

It wasn't resignalling Crewe though, it was Basford Hall and the Independents.

 

[AndrewE]

It wasn't resignalling Crewe though, it was Basford Hall and the Independents.

so what bottleneck was removed? Not the strangulation point of 3 approach lines to the station from the south... Maybe I shouldn't have taken "crewe" to mean the station, but if it's just resignalling of the goods lines how does that help? Maybe it helps NR because they don't have to find signallers for the small boxes...

 

[Merle Haggard]

Modern signalling naturally has a lifespan of about that length, so it's pretty meaningless self-congratulation to celebrate replacing life-expired assets.

And it's hardly "digital" or "modern" signalling. That would require ETCS, which is decades away from making an appearance here, now that they have just resignalled it with last-century technology.

Railtrack had, and Network Rail have,a history of describing replacement of worn out infrastructure as 'Investment' rather than 'Renewals'.

Would be interesting to see how it's treated in their books...

 

[The Planner]

so what bottleneck was removed? Not the strangulation point of 3 approach lines to the station from the south... Maybe I shouldn't have taken "crewe" to mean the station, but if it's just resignalling of the goods lines how does that help? Maybe it helps NR because they don't have to find signallers for the small boxes...

Its spin and it may be the NCE saying that, not anyone else. It was consolidation of the old boxes into one workstation, so yes saving NR headcount, much like any signaling job over the last 60 years.

 

[poffle]

Its spin and it may be the NCE saying that, not anyone else. It was consolidation of the old boxes into one workstation, so yes saving NR headcount, much like any signaling job over the last 60 years.

I think that they have now lifted some speed restrictions on the independent lines and the plan was that some of the through passenger services could use the independent lines in future rather than go through the station. That could facilitate greater use of the through platforms for stopping trains.

That's my memory and I can't immediately point to a source.

 

[Harpo]

Railtrack had, and Network Rail have,a history of describing replacement of worn out infrastructure as 'Investment' rather than 'Renewals'.

Would be interesting to see how it's treated in their books...

Generally, stuff delivered by maintenance teams is opex, and stuff delivered by renewals teams is capex.

On top of capex is enhancements. Anything that results in a greater operational capability than exists now, needs its own business case and source of funds/sponsor.

Anything other than opex spend has to pass through investment panel scrutiny.

 

[The Planner]

I think that they have now lifted some speed restrictions on the independent lines and the plan was that some of the through passenger services could use the independent lines in future rather than go through the station. That could facilitate greater use of the through platforms for stopping trains.

That's my memory and I can't immediately point to a source.

Speeds didnt get lifted, its still 10 and 15mph. Its now passenger rated, but I doubt it will see any diversions as no one will sign it.

 

[Lewisham2221]

so what bottleneck was removed? Not the strangulation point of 3 approach lines to the station from the south... Maybe I shouldn't have taken "crewe" to mean the station, but if it's just resignalling of the goods lines how does that help? Maybe it helps NR because they don't have to find signallers for the small boxes...

It doesn't say anything about a bottleneck being removed, just "overhauled" and "upgraded"

 

[AndrewE]

It doesn't say anything about a bottleneck being removed, just "overhauled" and "upgraded"

Silly me! Fancy reading "Network Rail completes ‘once in a generation’ £190M overhaul of Crewe bottleneck!" and imagining that they might be addressing a bottleneck... What an idiot I am: Of course ovehauling a bottleneck means just leaving it as it is.

 

[poffle]

Here's an article from Rail Engineer describing the project.

Among the main things

Chester line gains access to the independent lines
Increased speed was supposed to be part of the project
Modern signalling capable of supporting future systems
Closure of old signal boxes

A lot of this is enabling work for later stages of the Crewe project. The existing track and signalling infrastructure in Crewe is life expired and needs renewal. This work will allow some trains to run through Crewe during blockades.

Here is an article on the overall project:

Crewe Basford Hall and Independent Lines resignalling - Rail Engineer

Listen to this article If you have ever stood on Crewe station, you may have noticed that hardly any freight trains pass through it. This is because they are diverted via a separate four-track railway in a deep cutting to the west. Known as the Crewe Independent Lines, it is tunnelled beneath...

www.railengineer.co.uk

There is also another article on the overall scope of the Crewe Hub project.

A lot of this was also at least partly related to HS2.

All Change at Crewe - Rail Engineer

Listen to this article In 2021, Rail Engineer reported on the Crewe Basford Hall and Independent Lines (BHIL) re-signalling. BHIL is an early part of the overall large Crewe Hub programme which will consist of many individual projects and phases. In this article we look at the whole programme...

www.railengineer.co.uk

 

[Efini92]

I see there are no Avanti trains to/from Liverpool today, with no services through Crewe because of resignalling there.
There are replacement buses to/from from Stoke, serving Crewe/Liverpool/Chester/Preston, to pick up Manchester-Euston trains from there.
LNR has a similar bus Liverpool South Parkway to Stafford to pick up there.
Preston/Glasgow are served by a couple of trains which run Euston-Stoke-Manchester-Golborne-Wigan.
North Wales gets a few Chester-Holyhead shuttles.

It's unusual for Liverpool to lose London services.
The Chat Moss line is open so you would expect a service via Manchester, but none operates.

Is this the resignalling that eliminates Basford Hall Jn box?
There are no trains at all today at Crewe, so what is going on on the north side?
I can't remember Crewe being closed completely since the 1985 resignalling.

I don’t think anyone signs the chat moss from Liverpool to earlestown.

 

[The Planner]

Here's an article from Rail Engineer describing the project.

Among the main things

Chester line gains access to the independent lines
Increased speed was supposed to be part of the project
Modern signalling capable of supporting future systems
Closure of old signal boxes

A lot of this is enabling work for later stages of the Crewe project. The existing track and signalling infrastructure in Crewe is life expired and needs renewal. This work will allow some trains to run through Crewe during blockades.

Here is an article on the overall project:

Crewe Basford Hall and Independent Lines resignalling - Rail Engineer

Listen to this article If you have ever stood on Crewe station, you may have noticed that hardly any freight trains pass through it. This is because they are diverted via a separate four-track railway in a deep cutting to the west. Known as the Crewe Independent Lines, it is tunnelled beneath...

www.railengineer.co.uk

There is also another article on the overall scope of the Crewe Hub project.

A lot of this was also at least partly related to HS2.

All Change at Crewe - Rail Engineer

Listen to this article In 2021, Rail Engineer reported on the Crewe Basford Hall and Independent Lines (BHIL) re-signalling. BHIL is an early part of the overall large Crewe Hub programme which will consist of many individual projects and phases. In this article we look at the whole programme...

www.railengineer.co.uk

There is no Crewe project now HS2 is curtailed.

 

[AndrewE]

Here's an article from Rail Engineer describing the project.

Among the main things
Chester line gains access to the independent lines

What do you mean, "gains?" the line is still in on Open Train times even if it has been singled - and is grey on Traksy.
What a triumph, reinstating a mothballed line (not!) It definitely doesn't count as overhauling a bottleneck in my book. Why can't they just make an honest press release? - e.g. signalling upgrade/removal of 3 manual boxes, preparation for reinstating Chester Independants.

"Some sections of overhead line equipment above the out-of-use Down Chester and Coal Sidings 9 will be recovered" doen't sound very clever to me, as it will stop electric locos getting from Basford Hall to the ETD!

 

[Rail Ranger]

I think the up Chester Independent is now bidirectional.

 

[Freightmaster]

I think the up Chester Independent is now bidirectional.

Correct, but as far as I am aware, nothing ever uses it anyway!



MARK

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don’t think anyone signs the chat moss from Liverpool to earlestown.

It's history now, but Avanti has in the past diverted through Manchester via Chat Moss, and occasionally via Warrington BQ and Earlestown.
In fact the latter diversion was used last week when there was a problem at Runcorn.

The Crewe resignalling was supposed to be the beginning of a complete upgrade which would include HS2 Phase 2a (extended platforms etc).
But that's in the bin now, and it's also unclear when the remaining fringe boxes at Crewe (Steel Works and Coal Yard) will be replaced.

 

[The Planner]

But that's in the bin now, and it's also unclear when the remaining fringe boxes at Crewe (Steel Works and Coal Yard) will be replaced.

The plan is still for those along with Beeston and Winsford to go.