Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Bikeman78]

There was a fairly recent post from WarrenTManager on one of the SWR-related threads, basically saying (iirc) that the entire 455 fleet is going to run out of miles or hours or both before the end of next year, unless major overhauls are done (which is very unlikely).

So unless fingers are pulled out soon on the 701s, the SWR metro timetable will pretty much collapse, which wouldn't be a good look for the newly-nationalised operator ....

The overhauls will be spread over a few years. Even if they did two per month, that's only 24 per year. So the remaining fleet will be spread over at least three years.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Utterly pathetic, basically. Bunch of "adults" who should hang their heads in shame.

Well said.

 

[DelW]

The overhauls will be spread over a few years. Even if they did two per month, that's only 24 per year. So the remaining fleet will be spread over at least three years.

Unfortunately I can't find the post I referred to, so maybe my recollection of it is faulty.

But posts 11761 (question) and 11762 (reply) in this thread say that overhauls of (most of) the 455s won't be happening.

 

[Goldfish62]

The overhauls will be spread over a few years. Even if they did two per month, that's only 24 per year. So the remaining fleet will be spread over at least three years.

So is it confirmed that the 455s will be going through overhauls?

 

[Bikeman78]

So is it confirmed that the 455s will be going through overhauls?

No, not at all. C4 are mileage based and C6 are date based, assuming that class 455 are the same as class 150. My point is that the last run of overhauls will have taken place over a period of a few years. So it stands to reason that they will run out of miles or time over a similar period of years. They won't all drop dead on, for example, 31/12/25. It might be that the leases all expire around the same time but extending a lease for something that will otherwise go for scrap ought to be simple enough. Introducing 40 class 701 to replace 40 pairs (give or take) of 455s by the end of the year will be a tall order.

 

[Nogoohwell]

Can’t see Labour giving two s@&ts about SWR TBH.
Once you’re outside Wandsworth, i dont think any SWR station is in a target Labour seat. Its entirely Conservative or floating Lib Dems for the entire region. Just milk the punters for their worth to fund Northern Rail.

However the Conservatives have not exactly helped themselves in the past few years by not reinstating more services and permitting spending on driver training for 701’s and recruitment.

Could it just be that SWR is too big for a remote government department to manage?

Time will tell and fingers crossed those 701’s get out there before the 455’s run out of miles and parts.

 

[Goldfish62]

No, not at all. C4 are mileage based and C6 are date based, assuming that class 455 are the same as class 150. My point is that the last run of overhauls will have taken place over a period of a few years. So it stands to reason that they will run out of miles or time over a similar period of years. They won't all drop dead on, for example, 31/12/25. It might be that the leases all expire around the same time but extending a lease for something that will otherwise go for scrap ought to be simple enough. Introducing 40 class 701 to replace 40 pairs (give or take) of 455s by the end of the year will be a tall order.

Ah right, thanks. Sorry, I'm being a bit slow today!

Talking of which, in the latest issue of Modern Railways SWR have stated that "ideally" all 455s will be withdrawn by the end of this year due to increasing issues with corrosion and sourcing of parts. They will be withdrawn and sent for scrap as they become due for repair.

We shall see.... The quote is from December before the latest obstacle preventing further 701s being introduced became evident.

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Could it just be that SWR is too big for a remote government department to manage?

GTR is much larger and has been under a management contract since 2014.

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Once you’re outside Wandsworth, i dont think any SWR station is in a target Labour seat. Its entirely Conservative or floating Lib Dems for the entire region. Just milk the punters for their worth to fund Northern Rail.

Plenty of Labour seats, including new ones, on the Windsor lines.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Wish they’d change the announcements on the 701s… the Celia voice that has clearly been altered using some sort of computerised synthesis sounds so depressing

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Introducing 40 class 701 to replace 40 pairs (give or take) of 455s by the end of the year will be a tall order.

Have always thought so. Harking back to 458 conversion first time around and subsequent re-introduction as 5 car, thence 456/707 introductions, the plan was worked out on the basis of a ramp up (the next pair of 458/5 etc and subsequent cascade of other types) once every fortnight. So in theory one might say one new 10 car 701 once every fortnight, but that is me thinking of past introductions, I could well be way out from my retired comfy chair!

Talking of which, in the latest issue of Modern Railways SWR have stated that "ideally" all 455s will be withdrawn by the end of this year due to increasing issues with corrosion and sourcing of parts

Quite so. The former was a major problem with the above mentioned 458/0 to 458/5 conversion at Donny (for some vehicles) and the latter was the nail in the coffin for the 3 Cig's on the Lymmy branch in the end, much to the disdain of some in the enthusiast world. It was what it was, and the railway needs reliability, less it gets stung financially.

 

[DMckduck]

Wish they’d change the announcements on the 701s… the Celia voice that has clearly been altered using some sort of computerised synthesis sounds so depressing

Could also do with toning it down quite a bit, lots of repeating information and does the calling pattern need to be announced in full after every station?

Probably not if you ask me.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Talking of which, in the latest issue of Modern Railways SWR have stated that "ideally" all 455s will be withdrawn by the end of this year due to increasing issues with corrosion and sourcing of parts. They will be withdrawn and sent for scrap as they become due for repair.

Here's the extract for those interested
"The remaining Class 455's could all be withdrawn by the end of the year under plans envisaged by South Western Railway. Speaking to Modern Railways at Alstom's Widnes facility on 12 December, SWR Engineering Director Neil Drury said that ideally the last of the four-car EMUS would be withdrawn this year" ... "Corrosion is an issue across the fleet while sourcing sub-components is also becoming more of a problem." .. "...455s will be withdrawn and stripped of components before being sent to scrap"



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Additionally, reliability figures (my greatest condolences to Merseyrail)
"But as one Alstom product leaves the table, another enters. Despite umpteen Class 701 EMUs having been accepted, SWR is running just four. But despite the handicap of low numbers and negligible mileage, they have managed to debut within spitting distance of four longer-established fleets at the bottom end or the table and on a par with other two recently introduced fleets from Stadler and Hitachi. I say at the bottom of the table, but, of course, the Merseyrail Class 777s continue to be in a class of their own. And, it seems, not even the remedial class."

 

[Class450/4DES]

455s will be withdrawn and stripped of components before being sent to scrap"

View attachment 173433

I just hope 455868 will be preserved.

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What's going to happen if SWR makes no progress with the 701's this year and the 455 deadline hits?
I mean, SWR is not going to be a thing possibly by May, but still.

 

[Peter Wilde]

Ok, so what will the former SWR use as 455 replacements? Class 47s in push pull mode with 7 Mk 2s and a DVT ???? The mind boggles ...

 

[Goldfish62]

I mean, SWR is not going to be a thing possibly by May, but still.

As with TPE, SE, TfW and Scotrail it'll undoubtedly still be SWR. Just a change of owner and registered company name (currently First MTR South Western Trains Ltd).

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Ok, so what will the former SWR use as 455 replacements? Class 47s in push pull mode with 7 Mk 2s and a DVT ???? The mind boggles ...

The new temporary stop gap has been revealed...
View attachment EMU_Acceleration_And_DecelerationSEALDAH_DIVISION.mp4

 

[Class450/4DES]

The new temporary stop gap has been revealed...
View attachment 173457

I am surprised there has not been an incident like this yet to the 455's, it has happened to a 1996 Stock and I think a Class 321.
Also I love the fact it sounds like a 455 as well. XD Gotta love them old motor sounds.

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it'll undoubtedly still be SWR. Just a change of owner and registered company name (currently First MTR South Western Trains Ltd).

Ok, so what will the former SWR use as 455 replacements? Class 47s in push pull mode with 7 Mk 2s and a DVT ???? The mind boggles ...

As SWR is going going to be nationalised they could use the spare 465 MetCams in storage but it is not really realistic. Class 350/2's could be a good option and it could also send the 701/5's to SE who also really need new trains. The Class 350/2's are very similar to the 450's, its just that they don't have 3rd rail shoes. I think SWR has too many 701's anyway so the /5's going to SE would not really be a problem. - I hope...

 

[Bigfoot]

I think SWR has too many 701's anyway

It really doesn't.

 

[43096]

It really doesn't.

Actually, if you compare the timetable before Covid (and the timetable they bid against) with what is run now, then they will have too many trains once the 701s enter service. There were a load of peak extras in the old world that no longer runa nd there is no sign of them being reinstated.

 

[Cach17]

I think SWR has too many 701's anyway so the /5's going to SE would not really be a problem. - I hope...

As if SE need yet another microfleet.

 

[Class450/4DES]

It really doesn't.

Guessing that post I saw was misleading then.

 

[Goldfish62]

Guessing that post I saw was misleading then.

The SWR Engineering Director stated that there are too many. On balance I'd say that's sufficient evidence.

 

[Class450/4DES]

The SWR Engineering Director stated that there are too many. On balance I'd say that's sufficient evidence.

Okay. I was right then.

 

[norbitonflyer]

"But as one Alstom product leaves the table, another enters. Despite umpteen Class 701 EMUs having been accepted, SWR is running just four.

Where do they get that figure from? There are six in regular service, and have been since November.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The SWR Engineering Director stated that there are too many. On balance I'd say that's sufficient evidence.

It has too many for what they run now, because they no longer can be bothered to run 2tph to Dorking or Guildford via Bookham, nor the much needed 4tph peak Readings or even more than 2tph via Hounslow off peak…

 

[43066]

There has been a disagreement on wording, no specific information released.

So ASLEF and SWR are currently in the middle of a p**si*g contest basically...

Does anyone know what the specifics are in relation to this?

 

[norbitonflyer]

It has too many for what they run now, because they no longer can be bothered to run 2tph to Dorking or Guildford via Bookham, nor the much needed 4tph peak Readings or even more than 2tph via Hounslow off peak…

Or 2tph stoppers via Mortlake

 

[Goldfish62]

It has too many for what they run now, because they no longer can be bothered to run 2tph to Dorking or Guildford via Bookham, nor the much needed 4tph peak Readings or even more than 2tph via Hounslow off peak…

Exactly. And from the sounds of it they have no intention whatsoever of increasing service levels for the foreseeable future.

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Where do they get that figure from? There are six in regular service, and have been since November.

The period 7 data covers October, when there were four units in service.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

It has too many for what they run now, because they no longer can be bothered to run 2tph to Dorking or Guildford via Bookham, nor the much needed 4tph peak Readings or even more than 2tph via Hounslow off peak…

Something to do with guard avaliablity apparently. But of course this might change when nationalisation happens in May. Again, I believe SWR will be given a little more treatment as they're the first of the operators under Labour to be nationalised and therefore you'd expect them to want it to look like it's working so people are supportive of further franchise transfers

 

[lookapigeon]

I got a taste of what the future might be like amongst all of the engineering work between Surbiton and Clapham this weekend and rode a 701 for the first time, completely by chance.

Very smooth quality of ride and quiet inside in the carriage (from a mechanical point of view, not the passengers scrolling ****e on tiktok). Can only hope that they get back on track with the roll-out (excuse the pun).

Sooner the 455s disappear the better, they're pretty clapped out and lack any facilities you'd expect in 2025 on a train, such as plugs, toilets and heating.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I got a taste of what the future might be like amongst all of the engineering work between Surbiton and Clapham this weekend and rode a 701 for the first time, completely by chance.

You were very lucky then, as there seems to be only one out today, working a Windsor diagram