Southeastern metro fleet replacement/improvement

[Peter Mugridge]

Do we know where that is? I'm guessing this is a restoration to the unit's first livery.

It will be - SE hinted at an NSE repaint for a Networker a few months ago on Twitter.

 

[LUYMun]

Do we know where that is?

Doncaster Wabtec.

 

[brad465]

Doncaster Wabtec.

Yes that makes sense. Something tells me this unit, on return to the Southeastern area, will be a highly sought after TOPS request.

 

[gmaguire]

So someone sent this in a server im in. Any info on this?

(Image is a class 465 driving coach in Network Southeast livery with a GWR 769 beside it)

Wow, I’m looking forward to seeing that.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I’ll just leave this here..
(465908 in modified NSE Livery)

 

[Class15]

So annoying that they’ve gone for a /9 though! The one subclass that didn’t exist in NSE days! I’m assuming that they picked a /9 because they’re being overhauled at the minute?

 

[LUYMun]

A path has been put in place for a move from Ely to Newport next Tuesday and another on Thursday, I assume these are 465 scrap drags?

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K28709/2025-02-11/detailed https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K28709/2025-02-13/detailed

 

[brad465]

So annoying that they’ve gone for a /9 though! The one subclass that didn’t exist in NSE days! I’m assuming that they picked a /9 because they’re being overhauled at the minute?

The 9s still have their original traction motors, which the BREL units don't. Maybe they could have restored its old number as well but I assume that's not simple.

A path has been put in place for a move from Ely to Newport next Tuesday and another on Thursday, I assume these are 465 scrap drags?

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K28709/2025-02-11/detailed https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K28709/2025-02-13/detailed

Could be, but there is other old stock stored there as well, including 156s and HST power cars that these drags could also be, so we'll have to wait for an official source or an observation of these to know for sure.

 

[Class450/4DES]

So someone sent this in a server im in. Any info on this?

(Image is a class 465 driving coach in Network Southeast livery with a GWR 769 beside it)

I am now a happy guy!! NSE Networker in 2025.

 

[stadler]

I’ll just leave this here..
(465908 in modified NSE Livery)

Nice to see a Network South East liveried unit again. I did not expect that. I like that they have done a 465/9 as those seem to get used further outside of London on routes in to the Kent area. So more places to spot it. Probably less likely but i would love if they did a Connex liveried Networker too.

 

[gmaguire]

Deleted

 

[NSEWonderer]

I'm very excited to see this in person again, shame about the doors remaining grey but that's for accessibility reasons which is fair.

 

[physics34]

Window frames need to be white

 

[brad465]

Window frames need to be white

I agree. It is possible though the restoration isn't finished yet; the same images reveals no unit ID on the front either. Hopefully a proper NSE sticker appears on the front too (as opposed to the small improvised one on 465001).

 

[LUYMun]

Window frames need to be white

Some Networkers had their window frames repainted blue or black after NSE, such was the case for 465191: https://flic.kr/p/nBQPmj

 

[43066]

View attachment 174146

I'm very excited to see this in person again, shame about the doors remaining grey but that's for accessibility reasons which is fair.

Great to see this!

 

[Tram203]

A path has been put in place for a move from Ely to Newport next Tuesday and another on Thursday, I assume these are 465 scrap drags?

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K28709/2025-02-11/detailed https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K28709/2025-02-13/detailed

Could the pathed route, via the Midlands and not London, give any clues as to what may be heading in its final journey?

 

[Class450/4DES]

View attachment 174146

I'm very excited to see this in person again, shame about the doors remaining grey but that's for accessibility reasons which is fair.

Looks like there is a bit of work to do. Number and logo on the front and white window surrounds. Looking good so far!

 

[Class15]

Could the pathed route, via the Midlands and not London, give any clues as to what may be heading in its final journey?

Yeah, I assume it must be something that is not cleared to run via London for whatever reason.

 

[SolomonSouth]

I just got off another terrible BREL 465. This one was 465157. At least 2 if not 3 out of 4 motors were off. We were crawling out of stations and it tripped multiple times.

Networkers really should go, the sooner the better. They’re obviously falling apart around the edges, especially the BREL/ABB as of late but GEC units have their own set of issues too.

 

[brad465]

Yeah, I assume it must be something that is not cleared to run via London for whatever reason.

Or alternatively the pathing doesn't exist that way.

 

[4BEP]

Would be unlikely as IIRC the assembly line for that family of trains is now closed - could be restarted but would come at a higher cost. Is do-able and not unheard of, but with this government wanting to do everything on the cheap and the Derby factory desperate for orders its unlikely Siemens would be the cheapest option.

I would hedge my bets on Alstom winning it as the combo of Alstom desperation for orders and the want from the government for orders to arrive ASAP could lead to a good deal being struck, plus the Political side of things (e.g. the idea the government has come and saved the Derby Factory).

Personally I would prefer either Siemens or Stadler winning the order.

Desiro City is still listed in Siemens pro optional material.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2025 ==

Unlikely - these train would be expected to mainly cover metro services, but be to be able to cover all services across the whole SE Network except SE Highspeed IF needed (e.g. be able to cover for 377/375s if they failed).
It would likely see a 2+2 and some 1+1 seating layout to allow for more standing space - I would say similar to what is seen on the Class 730/0s.

There is nothing in the tender requiring the proposed fleet to cover Metro and Mainline services or to be used to recover failed units. What the tender does say is that the product offered should able to be configured in Metro or Mainline layout and that the intention would ultimately be to operate an homogeneous fleet. Since the tender was released it has been confirmed that trains would replacements for the exiting Metro fleet.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Yeah, I assume it must be something that is not cleared to run via London for whatever reason.

Good chance its the 4x156s then.

 

[SEtrains]

Good chance its the 4x156s then.

I know that trusting twitter is a bad idea but according to a few posts on twitter it is indeed networkers off for scrap sadly.

 

[gmaguire]

View attachment 174146

I'm very excited to see this in person again, shame about the doors remaining grey but that's for accessibility reasons which is fair.

Looking at bit 458/5-ish with the blue window frames.

Some Networkers had their window frames repainted blue or black after NSE, such was the case for 465191: https://flic.kr/p/nBQPmj

I think they were painted black to blend with the black band which was added as part of the SET and SE liveries. Some were relivered into SET still with white window frames and later painted black, from memory 465042 was one of those.

I’ve always liked the shape of the windows on the BRELs and how they were highlighted in off-white. It was a shame they hid them.

 

[brad465]

I know that trusting twitter is a bad idea but according to a few posts on twitter it is indeed networkers off for scrap sadly.

Given Richard Clinnick is a railway journalist, I'd say this source can be trusted. While the unit IDs are not yet known, I'm guessing 465/2s will be the first to go as they've been out of service the longest. As I'm in Taunton I might try and get to Severn Tunnel Jct next week for one of the moves, as long as it's not too early or late by that point in the move.

 

[Mikey C]

What that unit does show is how well the NSE livery (the later one with more white) suits the Networkers. The subsequent liveries they've worn are really dowdy in comparison.

 

[NSEWonderer]

What that unit does show is how well the NSE livery (the later one with more white) suits the Networkers. The subsequent liveries they've worn are really dowdy in comparison.

Agreed, really suited/ suits them.

 

[SEtrains]

Given Richard Clinnick is a railway journalist, I'd say this source can be trusted. While the unit IDs are not yet known, I'm guessing 465/2s will be the first to go as they've been out of service the longest. As I'm in Taunton I might try and get to Severn Tunnel Jct next week for one of the moves, as long as it's not too early or late by that point in the move.

More than likely will be /2s but it won’t be 241, 242 or 247 since these 3 are strangely still on lease.

 

[Doomotron]

It does seem weird that they chose a /9 to get the NSE livery. Yes, they have the original traction motors, but the subclass didn't even exist at the time. Granted, they're nowhere near as different to how they were off the production line compared to the Hitachi-motored Networker, so if they were going for an NSE 465 in as close to original condition as possible I guess a /9 would be the best option. However, I think they should have gone with a different subclass because the /9s won't be around for as long as the other Networkers. They could have got their money's worth more if they went for a Hitachi unit.