Caledonian Sleeper

[Carntyne]

I wonder what the business case was for the lounge at Dundee. I find it hard to imagine it being justified on usage, so what else could drive it?

The excitement of spending taxpayers money on stuff that isn't needed is probably the driver behind it.

 

[Bill57p9]

Obviously the sensible approach to the lounges would have been to share them with other operators to increase their viability, as was the case with the Glasgow Central and Euston lounges. On the whole sleeper and day trains will, by definition, have different peak times.
I do find it particularly bizarre that this has not happened with ScotRail given both are arms of Transport Scotland.

For the record, it isn’t just the railway that misses this opportunity: Aer Lingus used to offer business class passengers at Glasgow Airport use of the Upper Deck Lounge but no have no offering despite IAG stablemate BA having it’s own lounge.

 

[Caleb2010]

London bound highlander 2hours late leaving Edinburgh, according to CS it was due to a loco failure!

92038 was supposed to taking over at Edinburgh, a loco did attach and we got the hotel power back but then it all went off and after some time, something else was attached (I assume) and we were off.

RTT Still shows 92038 as hauling it but no idea if it is or not!

Anyone any idea what’s hauling 1M16 now?

Edit: it was 92014. delay repay already processed

 

[styles]

Obviously the sensible approach to the lounges would have been to share them with other operators to increase their viability, as was the case with the Glasgow Central and Euston lounges. On the whole sleeper and day trains will, by definition, have different peak times.
I do find it particularly bizarre that this has not happened with ScotRail given both are arms of Transport Scotland.

For the record, it isn’t just the railway that misses this opportunity: Aer Lingus used to offer business class passengers at Glasgow Airport use of the Upper Deck Lounge but no have no offering despite IAG stablemate BA having it’s own lounge.

Agreed. The main advantage to the CS lounge at Euston is it's on platform 1, which is where the CS (usually) leaves from. Given you can board the CS train what 45 minutes early though, it's hardly a massive benefit. I prefer the Avanti lounge food, but the CS lounge decor and comfort.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Agreed. The main advantage to the CS lounge at Euston is it's on platform 1, which is where the CS (usually) leaves from.

This also had the advanatge for Club passengers (who are the only ones allowed in the lounge) that the advertised priority boarding can be honoured, and that they can then get ahead of the scrum for a seat in the lounge car.

Previously (as it still is at the Scottish boarding points) it was first come first served, which is galling if you've paid extra for Club (which I do, albeit mainly because at my age multiple nocturnal calls of nature are a fact of life and I don't want to go down the corridor every time)

 

[styles]

This also had the advanatge for Club passengers (who are the only ones allowed in the lounge) that the advertised priority boarding can be honoured, and that they can then get ahead of the scrum for a seat in the lounge car.

Previously (as it still is at the Scottish boarding points) it was first come first served, which is galling if you've paid extra for Club (which I do, albeit mainly because at my age multiple nocturnal calls of nature are a fact of life and I don't want to go down the corridor every time)

Out of interest, how often do you find that the club car is full? I tend to go in a bit later, and during the later hours it's completely empty. I'm not sure I've ever been in and been unable to get a seat, but maybe I don't pop in at peak supper time?

In theory, if it is that busy, then non-club should be asked to come back later when it's quieter, but I'm not sure how this happens in practice.

 

[swaldman]

Out of interest, how often do you find that the club car is full? I tend to go in a bit later, and during the later hours it's completely empty. I'm not sure I've ever been in and been unable to get a seat, but maybe I don't pop in at peak supper time?

In theory, if it is that busy, then non-club should be asked to come back later when it's quieter, but I'm not sure how this happens in practice.

IM(limited, of late)E it's often full from departure for some hours. Histocially if it was going to be busy the hosts would turn away non-Club pax - perhaps that has been relaxed to first come / first served more recently?

In practice I know that I can't rely on being able to get into the lounge car, and hence I will eat dinner before departure, which then means I'm not going to spend much in the lounge car if I do get access.

 

[styles]

IM(limited, of late)E it's often full from departure for some hours. Histocially if it was going to be busy the hosts would turn away non-Club pax - perhaps that has been relaxed to first come / first served more recently?

In practice I know that I can't rely on being able to get into the lounge car, and hence I will eat dinner before departure, which then means I'm not going to spend much in the lounge car if I do get access.

Interesting! Do you mainly travel around weekends, midweek, or a mix if you don't mind me asking?

I'm usually travelling midweek as I'm heading down for work, but maybe the dining habits different on weekend services where it's part of a travel experience?

 

[swaldman]

Interesting! Do you mainly travel around weekends, midweek, or a mix if you don't mind me asking?

I'm usually travelling midweek as I'm heading down for work, but maybe the dining habits different on weekend services where it's part of a travel experience?

Honestly, I've only used the new stock once - it's become too expensive for me these days. So I wouldn't put too much weight behind my comment. And I don't remember what day of the week that was.

In Scotrail days it was certainly different - I usually got into the lounge car then.

 

[BRX]

In my experience (on either Highlander portion, departing from Euston) the lounge car is nearly always full quite soon after boarding. And they do seem to sometimes have some tables reserved for club class. So if you are non club class you can't rely on getting a space on departure.

However, it usually empties out after an hour or two and so usually anyone could get in there if prepared to wait until after the first sitting. The only problem with this is that they seem to have a habit of running out of various things on the menu.

 

[swaldman]

In my experience (on either Highlander portion, departing from Euston) the lounge car is nearly always full quite soon after boarding. And they do seem to sometimes have some tables reserved for club class. So if you are non club class you can't rely on getting a space on departure.

However, it usually empties out after an hour or two and so usually anyone could get in there if prepared to wait until after the first sitting. The only problem with this is that they seem to have a habit of running out of various things on the menu.

Good point that the route probably has a dramatic effect here. On the Highlander people want to sit and have a meal or a drink.
With the later departure of the Lowlander, a lot of folk probably go straight to bed.

 

[Deepgreen]

Hope tonight's Fort William run is OK - I will be on it...

 

[norbitonflyer]

Out of interest, how often do you find that the club car is full?

Certainly happened to us on the Highlander. Only the bar stools were left, which were too high for my wife to reach (even if she hadn't been on crutches at the time.....)

 

[Deepgreen]

Certainly happened to us on the Highlander. Only the bar stools were left, which were too high for my wife to reach (even if she hadn't been on crutches at the time.....)

I hope someone gave up their seat for her!

 

[12LDA28C]

The Lowlander is timed for 7 hours 25 minutes, the driver would have put up in a hotel should they drive the whole route, with the crew changes at Preston the driver can sleep in their own bed once the shift is finished, without the extra expence of the TOC putting them up in a hotel.

A driver would not be permitted to drive the whole route, even if they had the necessary route knowledge. There's no way a driver can drive for that long without at least one break.

 

[godfreycomplex]

A driver would not be permitted to drive the whole route, even if they had the necessary route knowledge. There's no way a driver can drive for that long without at least one break.

It does very occasionally happen but the driver takes a break en route (usually at Preston). Not regularly though.

 

[43066]

It does very occasionally happen but the driver takes a break en route (usually at Preston). Not regularly though.

Other than a record run, where exceptions are made, how does that ever happen within the depot/link structure?

Only Preston sign the whole thing and, shocking as Avanti’s Ts and Cs are, there’s surely no way they could pass to either end, work the entire length of the route, and get back to base within a shift?

 

[PG]

Only Preston sign the whole thing and, shocking as Avanti’s Ts and Cs are, there’s no way they could pass to either end, work the entire length of the route, and get back to base within a shift?

What have Avanti got to do with the sleepers? I thought GBRf provided both the traction and drivers, unless I'm mistaken??, in which case my apologies for getting muddled up.

 

[43066]

What have Avanti got to do with the sleepers? I thought GBRf provided both the traction and drivers, unless I'm mistaken??, in which case my apologies for getting muddled up.

Quite right - apologies - I read the post I replied to based on my feed, without properly checking the context.

I still don’t see how a southern GBRf driver could cover the whole thing, I didn’t think the southernmost ones signed the entire route. Even if they did, that’s surely way more than could be covered in a shift?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Quite right - apologies - I read the post I replied to based on my feed, without properly checking the context.

I still don’t see how a southern GBRf driver could cover the whole thing, I didn’t think the southernmost ones signed the entire route. Even if they did, that’s surely way more than could be covered in a shift?

It’s not a southern driver - it’s usually Polmadie (when it happens, which isn’t often)

Book on 11 ish, Central to Euston with a break en route and off into lodge at 7:30 ish and vice versa the following night well within GBRF’s agreements

It’s not routine though, as for one thing there isn’t much room for delay, and for another only a couple sign all the way

 

[PG]

Even if they did, that’s surely way more than could be covered in a shift?

Thanks, thought I was losing it!

I'm not in the industry but yes it would seem less than ideal for one driver to drive the entire route in shift.

 

[merseydrew]

Will Caledonian Sleeper ever stop at Harrow & Wealdstone

 

[godfreycomplex]

Will Caledonian Sleeper ever stop at Harrow & Wealdstone

Not unless a very exceptional event happened, no. Platform's too short, for one thing.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I hope someone gave up their seat for her!

A lovely couple made room for us at their table - turned out it was their honeymoon.

 

[43066]

It’s not a southern driver - it’s usually Polmadie (when it happens, which isn’t often)

Book on 11 ish, Central to Euston with a break en route and off into lodge at 7:30 ish and vice versa the following night well within GBRF’s agreements

It’s not routine though, as for one thing there isn’t much room for delay, and for another only a couple sign all the way

Cheers - makes sense as a lodge I guess, albeit fairly brutal.

I work with a guy who was formerly one of the southern based ones and, from discussing within him the past, it doesn’t work the other way around.

 

[Bald Rick]

Will Caledonian Sleeper ever stop at Harrow & Wealdstone

Not as an advertised call in service, no.

 

[greatkingrat]

Thanks, thought I was losing it!

I'm not in the industry but yes it would seem less than ideal for one driver to drive the entire route in shift.

Driving the whole route one way isn't actually much different from driving half the route both ways.

 

[43066]

Driving the whole route one way isn't actually much different from driving half the route both ways.

It is if you need to get back to your starting point - hence it can only be done by lodging.

 

[RGM654]

Will Caledonian Sleeper ever stop at Harrow & Wealdstone

The Highlander doesn't even stop at Watford now as it used to.

 

[rower40]

A lovely couple made room for us at their table - turned out it was their honeymoon.

They were looking for an excuse to get back to their cabin?