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It's something that the Keep Cash UK group are working on.
We got over 33,000 signatures to protect our right to use cash in law, that's 33,000 plus people who care enough to take the time out of their day to sign in agreement against the cashless agenda.
You can't protect a right you don't already have. Presumably they're wanting a new right. Parliament decided two years ago that they weren't going to grant that right. Has your group any new campaigns since then?
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When a business is a public transport service provider, that provides services that are supposedly open to the general public, then they shouldn't need to sign up to join a bank or building society in order to use them.
They seem to be exclusively referring to England (population £56M).
Obviously it's a rarity to see a bank note with Brian or Brenda's face on it in Scotland or Northern Ireland.
Besides, it's only "public transport" as a generic term. There's no obligation to carry any passenger. You can be turned away for being drunk, drugged up, rude, carrying a tin of paint, or carrying a lead-acid battery.
Their pressure group has the name "UK" iin the name, so I assumed otherwise. Although we're talking about money, I don't think you need the currency symbol, there.
I wouldn't call it a rarity to see English notes in Scotland - especially the 2 biggest cities - certainly less rare than the other way round. I've not spent enough time in Northern Ireland to have an educated opinion.
Besides, it's only "public transport" as a generic term. There's no obligation to carry any passenger. You can be turned away for being drunk, drugged up, rude, carrying a tin of paint, or carrying a lead-acid battery.
Their pressure group has the name "UK" iin the name, so I assumed otherwise. Although we're talking about money, I don't think you need the currency symbol, there.
I wouldn't call it a rarity to see English notes in Scotland - especially the 2 biggest cities - certainly less rare than the other way round. I've not spent enough time in Northern Ireland to have an educated opinion.
Indeed, though it's amazing how useful being polite and having things in bags helps in these situations.
You see plenty of Bank Of England notes in Northern Ireland too. Whenever i visit Northern Ireland i would say almost half the banknotes i see are Bank Of England notes. The same for Scotland where the Bank Of England notes are even more common. Even in Guernsey and Jersey and Isle Of Man and even in Gibraltar you see a significant amount.
You see plenty of Bank Of England notes in Northern Ireland too. Whenever i visit Northern Ireland i would say almost half the banknotes i see are Bank Of England notes. The same for Scotland where the Bank Of England notes are even more common. Even in Guernsey and Jersey and Isle Of Man and even in Gibraltar you see a significant amount.
English bank notes are very common in Scotland. The £2.00 coin less so in my experience. Living close to the border with England one of the cash machines at a local bank branch only dispenses Bank of England notes!
English bank notes are very common in Scotland. The £2.00 coin less so in my experience. Living close to the border with England one of the cash machines at a local bank branch only dispenses Bank of England notes!
Generally speaking if a cash machine is operated by one of the Scottish banks it will issue that bank's notes, but if it's operated by anyone else it will issue English notes. HSBC cash machines are a pretty sure bet for English notes, as are those Raphael's Bank ones you only get in airports. This was quite handy to know when I worked up there for a bit - in the South East acceptance of Scottish notes is very poor so I wanted to avoid ending up with them where possible.
Should businesses also be required to accept eggs as payment? After all, there was plenty of barter going on in the second century BC without any problems.
Should businesses also be required to accept eggs as payment? After all, there was plenty of barter going on in the second century BC without any problems.
Should businesses also be required to accept eggs as payment? After all, there was plenty of barter going on in the second century BC without any problems.
I have a bus pass for Arriva, but the 127 failed to turn up on time this morning, forcing me to take the Skylink into Leicester to recoup lost time. I paid by cash. Any questions?
I have a bus pass for Arriva, but the 127 failed to turn up on time this morning, forcing me to take the Skylink into Leicester to recoup lost time. I paid by cash. Any questions?
Since I've had one bank note and zero coins (are they even in circulation yet?) with a picture of the king on ever, I reckon that sounds like even more trouble than having a contactless card.
Since I've had one bank note and zero coins (are they even in circulation yet?) with a picture of the king on ever, I reckon that sounds like even more trouble than having a contactless card.
I have a bus pass for Arriva, but the 127 failed to turn up on time this morning, forcing me to take the Skylink into Leicester to recoup lost time. I paid by cash. Any questions?
Since I've had one bank note and zero coins (are they even in circulation yet?) with a picture of the king on ever, I reckon that sounds like even more trouble than having a contactless card.
I've lost count of how many banknotes bearing His Majesty's likeness I've handled (the first one is framed in my bedroom!) but I still have only found one such coin (also kept for posterity).
Many bank accounts in other countries won't come with a Visa or MasterCard. One of my uni flatmates relied predominantly on cash for months recently as a result.
To be fair I'd be in favour of the creation of an Oyster-a-like public transport prepaid card with lower or zero fees to cover this need.
It's obviously viable as many countries have already demonstrated, in New York even Amazon Go accepts cash, contrary to popular belief the actual cost of handling cash is virtually zero. Just a couple months ago I saw one such UK business start accepting cash in front of my eyes when their card machine malfunctioned.
This isn't true. You have to count it, transport it securely, process it etc. Card requires no manual intervention so is cheaper to process. Small businesses may see it otherwise as they don't properly account for their time spent doing this, they'll count it while watching TV in the evening and drive it to the bank themselves.
As it stands I pay for most of my bus fares in cash, it’s just more convenient especially since I generally have to bank cash a couple of times a month anyway. That said, if Ticketer accepted Amex I’d probably switch.
Why are you wedded to AmEx? That won't do nicely (because it charges much higher merchant fees than others). If you're fine with card payments just get one that isn't an AmEx. Surely your bank account has a Visa or Mastercard debit card with it?
I also end up paying for others at cash-only places almost every week (usually repaid in drinks)...
Where do these exist in large numbers? Locally to me the only one is the local chippy, and I'm sure they'll switch eventually. I would concede that carrying a bit of cash is still potentially useful, but I'm not sure how long for now. However the negative sides of cash on buses (speed of operation and driver safety) far outweigh the positives, so if it still is accepted it needs to be off the bus like Oyster. The one exception is if you provide a farebox style exact change cash system., but that's hugely costly for a method of payment that's used, on average, by perhaps fewer than 10% of passengers.
The only trader I know that is cash only is the burger van just outside South Mimms motorway services. All the market traders that I use take cards.
Having said that Sumup seem to be encouraging cash by demanding retrospective documentation from established accounts for sole traders and community groups. Of course they first freeze the card reader and then wait for the complaint.
I have to say, this is one of the more entertaining threads on the forum. As many as 0.089% of UK taxpayers may have signed a petition - not exactly a groundswell of opinion.
The fact is that we are moving to a cashless society. In 2009, half of payments were with cash. Now it's 15% and whilst helped by Covid and greater online shopping, it was well on the way (23% in 2019). With the exception of my local Chinese takeaway, I struggle to think of any places I go that don't take card. Living near Bath, there's a private toll bridge and I keep some cash in the car if I'm going that way - it's £1 per crossing - even they take cards!
Yes. Ensign Bus was the big one which hit the news. Greater Manchester is another area though where you can not buy weekly tickets with contactless. Morebus you can only buy paper weekly tickets from the travelshop (travelshops will use normal card machines with online payments to take the money straight away rather than 'transit mode' which does offline payments then takes the payment later on.
These are just a few examples but I am sure more exist. It could be sorted out though by Ticketer and payment processors doing online payments for larger tickets and not using Transit mode, but sadly as is typical with the industry, it's easier to make passengers suffer, than it is to fix the actual problem.
Bletchleyite said: One does not require a large income nor savings to pay by card.
For someone with a restricted income and therefore a need to very carefully watch their spending, cards are off-putting because it is not straightforward to know how much is available to spend, which creates the risk of overspending. I quite happily use cards all the time, but I can do that without worrying that I might have miscalculated and actually have £5 less than I thought in the account, because I always have well over £5 more than any likely daily spending available. E.g. if a direct debit I had forgotten about goes out a few days early, that will not leave me going overdrawn through using my card for everyday spending.
For those for whom turning out to have £5 less than you thought you had can be serious, cards can appear risky, especially if some debits may not show up for a day or two after the transaction, creating the impression that there is more money in the account than their really is. In my earlier post, I described a friend who likes to get out cash, as then she knows she has enough money left in the bank to meet her bills (rent, utilities, etc) and she can keep track of her other spending by glancing in her purse and seeing what is there. If she had to use a debit card, she would feel she had to carry a notebook around to keep track of all spending to make sure she did not go overdrawn or eat into her bills money (or preferably have two accounts, one for the 'bills money' and one with the debit card, so she was at no risk of accidently drawing upon the money reserved for bills). That is more complicated and more error-prone than looking in her purse. There would still be the issue that a direct debit, etc, can make money unexpectedly vanish from a current account, but cannot make cash vanish from a purse.
For people on that sort of tight budget, this can be a serious matter. For them, being caution of cards has a rational basis, as above.
The points you make about cash acceptance creating problems are perfectly sound. I think we need a better way to make non-cash use easier and safer for those for whom it raises real problems. Just calling them "refuseniks" and being critical will not solve the problem, and I fear it is likely to drive people in that situation towards the far-right and the conspiracy cranks who keenly offer them validation.
Being ignorant of using the Internet or a smartphone is not really a choice either, especially in people who missed out on the early stages of their introduction and now face entering at the deep end with little support.
Bletchleyite said: It is not necessary to use the Internet or a smartphone to pay for a bus journey by card.
True in itself, but without either it is much more difficult to monitor how much is available to spend on any type of card, which takes us back to the issue above, of people who need to be sure how much they have to avoid overspending and know they have enough.
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This was being discussed in the other thread - the problems are that those charge fees and most require internet access to operate and reload them. Those without contactless cards are particularly likely to not have net access and not be able to afford fees.
Yes. Ensign Bus was the big one which hit the news. Greater Manchester is another area though where you can not buy weekly tickets with contactless. Morebus you can only buy paper weekly tickets from the travelshop (travelshops will use normal card machines with online payments to take the money straight away rather than 'transit mode' which does offline payments then takes the payment later on.
These are just a few examples but I am sure more exist. It could be sorted out though by Ticketer and payment processors doing online payments for larger tickets and not using Transit mode, but sadly as is typical with the industry, it's easier to make passengers suffer, than it is to fix the actual problem.
The biggest joke here is that those operators actually sell weekly tickets on the bus. TfGM is especially disappointing given they are franchised. What's the point of franchising if they are going to copy the bad habits of the deregulated firms? That shows how little they care about boarding times. TfGM now have tap and go so there is no excuse now for selling weekly tickets on the bus. People who don't want to visit a shop, use an app or pay online beforehand can simply use tap and go.
The biggest joke here is that those operators actually sell weekly tickets on the bus. TfGM is especially disappointing given they are franchised. What's the point of franchising if they are going to copy the bad habits of the deregulated firms? That shows how little they care about boarding times. TfGM now have tap and go so there is no excuse now for selling weekly tickets on the bus. People who don't want to visit a shop, use an app or pay online beforehand can simply use tap and go.
Some people like having a ticket and for a basic weekly paper ticket, buying onboard isn't that bad. It's weekly smartcards tickets when it becomes an issue. I noticed on my buses that the dwell time increased significantly when selling weeklies onto a smartcard.
Minor point but there is no such thing as a prepaid credit card. They are just prepaid cards. Cards come in three different versions (Debit Card and Credit Card and Prepaid Card) but a prepaid credit card has never existed. But as previously mentioned these prepaid cards are difficult to obtain and all charge fees. Most require you to sign up online first which will be a barrier. The one prepaid card that can be bought in shops is a single use card that can only be topped up once and charges extremely high fees. Many people without a bank account will be put off by these and find it difficult to get one. They are not an alternative.
Surely the solution is to have something similar to pay as you go Oyster where you present a smart card on the bus and have the value of the fare deducted from the credit stored on it. You can then top up the balance with whatever means you like at a Paypoint, Post Office or travel shop. The user still gets to use their preferred payment method but it remains cashless at the point of use.
The biggest joke here is that those operators actually sell weekly tickets on the bus. TfGM is especially disappointing given they are franchised. What's the point of franchising if they are going to copy the bad habits of the deregulated firms? That shows how little they care about boarding times. TfGM now have tap and go so there is no excuse now for selling weekly tickets on the bus. People who don't want to visit a shop, use an app or pay online beforehand can simply use tap and go.
Many bus operators will even still let you buy paper monthly tickets onboard. Arriva and First both sell paper monthly tickets in most regions as do dozens of other bus operators around the country. I have seen people buy them recently so they are used. I actually think this is a very good idea as it massively speeds up boarding which a lot of people on here keep mentioning. You only have to buy a ticket from the driver once a month and then there are no more transactions for yourself for an entire month. So selling monthly tickets onboard buses massively reduces the amount of transactions for passengers who buy these and therefore speeds up boarding.
Many bus operators will even still let you buy paper monthly tickets onboard. Arriva and First both sell paper monthly tickets in most regions as do dozens of other bus operators around the country. I have seen people buy them recently so they are used. I actually think this is a very good idea as it massively speeds up boarding which a lot of people on here keep mentioning. You only have to buy a ticket from the driver once a month and then there are no more transactions for yourself for an entire month. So selling monthly tickets onboard buses massively reduces the amount of transactions for passengers who buy these and therefore speeds up boarding.
It is still an unnecessary ticket bought from the driver and just like a weekly ticket it involves messing around with wallets or adding to smartcards through the machine. If cash is used to pay for it, that makes the driver very vulnerable to robbery as other passengers can see that a large amount of money has changed hands. If this was such a good idea then it would be common outside Britain. Just get the ticket from a shop or use an app. Or buy it online and load the ticket on the ticket machine. Season tickets can be added onto Oyster cards at bus ticket machines within 30 minutes.
Many bus operators will even still let you buy paper monthly tickets onboard. Arriva and First both sell paper monthly tickets in most regions as do dozens of other bus operators around the country. I have seen people buy them recently so they are used. I actually think this is a very good idea as it massively speeds up boarding which a lot of people on here keep mentioning.
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