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South WCML substations

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Just a quick and easy one here! What are the substations currently in use on the West Coast Main Line south of Rugby? I'm particularly interested the in locations of regular TSCs/SATS/ATSs. The feeder stations and mid-points I can kind of guess at based on easily available neutral section locations.
 
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Elecman

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The main Grid Feeders are
Patford Bridge ATFS
Leighton Buzzard ATFS
Bushey Feeder
Acton Lane Feeder

Take me a bit longer to check all the TSCs/SATS
 

GRALISTAIR

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Sorry mods- can't reasonably quote from this but I assume you have seen this. Page 28 gave the position of Grid Feeders in 2009 but not all the TSCs and mid points etc. This is the big missive on electrification entitled Electrification RUS
 

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Sorry mods- can't reasonably quote from this but I assume you have seen this. Page 28 gave the position of Grid Feeders in 2009 but not all the TSCs and mid points etc. This is the big missive on electrification entitled Electrification RUS
Oh yeah, I am well acquainted with the Network Rail 2009 RUS! I practically gasped when I discovered it after trying to research this stuff for so long. However, I am somewhat glad I found it so late because there are some complicated caveats I have with that map which I wouldn't have known otherwise (not least how out of date it is) - though I will be using it to help flesh out some Wikipedia articles at some point (already entered some stuff for the GEML one).
The other excellent sources I know of that you might find interesting are pictures from ECR mimic boards: only found them for Romford and at Paddock Wood
 
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I really wish the DfT etc would issue a refresh of that document and bring fully up to date.
That would be quite good indeed. As it stands, I'm out here piecing together some best guesses from hints and suggestions I come across. Mostly from this forum but also random corporate bulletins and the occasional highly detailed PWI seminar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flpQBPw3oPA this one is very interesting, up to date and all about power constraints on the WCML. From the slides that you can download on the website, I've got a good source for grid connections and mid-points. From this PWI seminar and another one on the West London Orbital London Overground line i've learned that there is an ATS at Hunsbury Hill (Northampton), and a TSC right out of Euston at Camden Jnc.
 

GRALISTAIR

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I just checked Garry Keenor 6th edition OLE book, and I can confirm there is no list in there of substations - even in the Appendices. So I am really interested in your work.
 
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I just checked Garry Keenor 6th edition OLE book, and I can confirm there is no list in there of substations - even in the Appendices.
Thankyou! I started out my electrification obsession from his book - which is great for OLE info and for the list of installations at the end. However, he does kind of skip over feeding/P&D arrangements. The textbook (literally) layout of Feeder Station>Mid Point>Feeder Station, is almost uncommon when you start looking at how things play out in practice.

For one thing, many feeder stations are single supply instead of dual supply and so won't have a neutral section associated with them, they may either supply in both directions from that point (like Norwich, or Hayes on the original Heathrow Express scheme) or be fitted with a neutral section that is the mid-point of the another supply (like Manningtree which normally only supplies southwards but is the midpoint for Stowmarket A). You also have arrangements with multiple midpoints one after the other to allow for different phase-split points for n-1 scenarios (like Shillbottle, Chathill, and Fenham for moving the supply around between Marshall Meadows and Ulgham Crossing) or seemingly for this AND historical reasons (like Witham and Kelvedon). Then, you get into the stuff with independent feeder connections which opens up so many more possibilities than what the 1 or 2 pages on the topic Keenor writes.

All this stuff is quite obvious to everyone here I assume, but I've randomly been figuring out after spending a lot of time being a little confused.
So I am really interested in your work.
My main project was an attempt to track the change in feeding arrangements over time for lines in East Anglia. (I have here a blog for it). But I've been side-tracked for a while and at the moment I'm working on a map to visualise where the feeding boundaries are for lines in the London area. Originally I was just going to keep it FS and Midpoint, but I thought I'd add DC lines, then DC substations, then DC Track Paralleling Huts, then at that point I thought it'd be rude not to add the AC TSCs. But I have no idea where they are for WCML!
 

stuving

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Just a quick and easy one here! What are the substations currently in use on the West Coast Main Line south of Rugby? I'm particularly interested the in locations of regular TSCs/SATS/ATSs. The feeder stations and mid-points I can kind of guess at based on easily available neutral section locations.
Have you seen this?
1748467994007.png
It comes from the "West Coast Main Line Power Supply Upgrade Project (WCPSU) ; PHASE 3 – AUTO-TRANSFORMER – BRIEFING PACK". This has been mentioned in the past on various threads here, but seems to have disappeared from the web (at least under the filename ATF Briefing Document_Full Version_Rev C (3)).

Obviously it represents the plan to be implemented before starting (2014), and may differ from the situation as built.
 
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Have you seen this?
No i have not! Thank you this is very interesting. Do you have the full file you could share if it's not online anymore?

I do know specifically that there is a Camden Jnc TSC, West London Junction TSC, and Kensal Green TSC because they're mentioned in this document about the new London Overground Line.
1748473425172.png
 

Elecman

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Here’s the list of substations to go with my earlier Feeder post

Ashton MPATS
Wolverton ATS
Bletchley SATS
Tring ATS
Bourne End MPATS
North Wembley MPATS
Wembley TSC
Harlesden TSL
Primrose Hill TSL
Camden TSC
 
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Here’s the list of substations to go with my earlier Feeder post

Ashton MPATS
Wolverton ATS
Bletchley SATS
Tring ATS
Bourne End MPATS
North Wembley MPATS
Wembley TSC
Harlesden TSL
Primrose Hill TSL
Camden TSC
Thanks, this is very helpful! So are Kensal Green TSL and West London Jnc TSC just for the North London Line?
 

Elecman

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Thanks, this is very helpful! So are Kensal Green TSL and West London Jnc TSC just for the North London Line?
Yes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Additionally there are the following on the Northampton Loop

Kingsthorpe ATS
Hunsbury Hill ATS

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

And finally the following Auto Feeder Sectioning Lications (AFSL)

Roade AFSL
Muscott AFSL
Bugbrooke AFSL
 

aar0

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I’m slightly unsurprised there’s not a lot of public info available… we’ve recently had Heathrow close for a day after potential arson at a substation, and several railway were deliberately damaged in France last year.
 
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If you're thinking of committing some domestic terrorism, the kind of nerd detail I'm interested in is pretty immaterial. I can't really think how knowing that say Patford Bridge ATFS normally feeds southwards could enable a more targeted act of vandalism, if you damage electrical infrastructure - the harm cause will be to electrical systems. It's actually quite hard to hone a very specific target within the railways system anyway: the result is always services suspended and the line closed no matter if you stole signalling cable, drove a lorry into a low bridge or chucked a tree-trunk onto the overhead lines.
 

thecrofter

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Have you seen this?
View attachment 180941
It comes from the "West Coast Main Line Power Supply Upgrade Project (WCPSU) ; PHASE 3 – AUTO-TRANSFORMER – BRIEFING PACK". This has been mentioned in the past on various threads here, but seems to have disappeared from he web (at least under the filename ATF Briefing Document_Full Version_Rev C (3)).

Obviously it represents the plan to be implemented before starting (2014), and may differ from the situation as built.
As one who can speak with some authority on this particular subject, that's exactly how Phase 3A was built but AT was not delivered in the Bushey Feeder Area hence Kings Langley ATS was never commissioned and is effectively mothballed.
 
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So Bourne End to Euston is all classically fed. I was passing through the area not too long ago and I swear I could see some bits of ATF around Harrow & Wealdstone.
 

GRALISTAIR

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Any chances?
Everything seems to be on hold until the spending review.

---As the spending review looms into view on June 11 and with the fiscal situation showing signs of deteriorating significantly, Rachel Reeves is locked in tense talks with senior Cabinet ministers. What is clear is that there will have to be losers. The dire state of the public finances — some economists estimate that there is a £60 billion hole — means that cuts are inevitable. But where is the axe likely to fall?
 

thecrofter

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So Bourne End to Euston is all classically fed. I was passing through the area not too long ago and I swear I could see some bits of ATF around Harrow & Wealdstone.
Yes it is. Some AT prep work was done in advance but the long delayed installation of the Neutral Section at Bushey was never completed due to a myriad of issues. Bushey FS is only using one of the two incoming feeders so is effectively T-feeding to Bourne End and North Wembley.
 
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Any hope for that project? The need is definitely there.

And in the long run is anything intended for Wembley North to Euston? Or is it that the presence of two feeds at Bushey reduces Acton Lane's N-1 requirements so you can say it's not as 'maxed out' as it is now.
 

thecrofter

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Any hope for that project? The need is definitely there.

And in the long run is anything intended for Wembley North to Euston? Or is it that the presence of two feeds at Bushey reduces Acton Lane's N-1 requirements so you can say it's not as 'maxed out' as it is now.
Not much cheer as it's all about funding I'm afraid. Since all enhancements were channelled into the opaque DfT "Enhancements Pipeline" (by Grayling in 2019) which hasn't yet seen the light of day, I'd say it is pretty much dead until perhaps a catastrophic failure forces the issue. One issue for Bushey NS delay was a later proposal for it to feed in Euston (classic from North Wembley) thereby taking some of the load off of Acton Lane. All this extra design / development / time etc. delayed obtaining any extra funding for the PSU upgrade project in that area and the whole caboodle was shelved!
 
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Damn, that is depressing! Especially considering how much stuff is left half built. It's been fairly well stated that Euston to Wembley is already well over-stretched and costs a lot in delay repayments when something happens - surely it's only gotten worse with all the Voyagers gone from Euston and the prospect of class 93 and 99 freight movements. I suppose both of those can just be asked to use diesel - such is the folly of bimodes. That being said, West London Orbital is being planned and will want to electrify the Dudding Hill branch and use Acton Lane as a backup supply.
One issue for Bushey NS delay was a later proposal for it to feed in Euston (classic from North Wembley) thereby taking some of the load off of Acton Lane.
Would this have been all the way to Euston? So Acton Lane would then just support NLL, perhaps with it's second connection supplying T&H lines through that underground cable to Gospel Oak MPTSC.
 

thecrofter

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Damn, that is depressing! Especially considering how much stuff is left half built. It's been fairly well stated that Euston to Wembley is already well over-stretched and costs a lot in delay repayments when something happens - surely it's only gotten worse with all the Voyagers gone from Euston and the prospect of class 93 and 99 freight movements. I suppose both of those can just be asked to use diesel - such is the folly of bimodes. That being said, West London Orbital is being planned and will want to electrify the Dudding Hill branch and use Acton Lane as a backup supply.

Would this have been all the way to Euston? So Acton Lane would then just support NLL, perhaps with it's second connection supplying T&H lines through that underground cable to Gospel Oak MPTSC.
Yes the proposal was for Bushey FS to feed all the way south into Euston. The Gospel Oak - Barking electrification extension added extra load to Acton Lane (Supply No 1) in order to feed up to the Mid Point at South Tottenham. There was an Interconnector (cable) from Acton Lane to Old Oak Common (No 1) but that was de-commissioned after (and by) the GWML electrification works.
 
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Yeah, there seems to be another interconnector from Acton Lane to Gospel Oak MPTSC with neutral section separating diverging T&H lines from the NLL, what is the function of that one?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Here’s the list of substations to go with my earlier Feeder post

Ashton MPATS
Wolverton ATS
Bletchley SATS
Tring ATS
Bourne End MPATS
North Wembley MPATS
Wembley TSC
Harlesden TSL
Primrose Hill TSL
Camden TSC
Do you have a mileage or anything for Camden TSC? I know that there's also a DC substation by the name of Camden, but I can't really locate either on Google Earth.
 
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thecrofter

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Yeah, there seems to be another interconnector from Acton Lane to Gospel Oak MPTSC with neutral section separating diverging T&H lines from the NLL, what is the function of that one?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Do you have a mileage or anything for Camden TSC? I know that there's also a DC substation by the name of Camden, but I can't really locate either on Google Earth.
What makes you think there's an interconnector from Acton Lane to Gospel Oak?

Camden TSC is at the north end of Park Street tunnel around structures G/00/202-204.
 

Richard123

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Have you seen this?
View attachment 180941
It comes from the "West Coast Main Line Power Supply Upgrade Project (WCPSU) ; PHASE 3 – AUTO-TRANSFORMER – BRIEFING PACK". This has been mentioned in the past on various threads here, but seems to have disappeared from he web (at least under the filename ATF Briefing Document_Full Version_Rev C (3)).

Obviously it represents the plan to be implemented before starting (2014), and may differ from the situation as built.
WCPSU was part of WCML upgrade from the late 1990s. Full AT end to end, to be delivered in a few years for a couple of hundred million. I can't find much info on WCRM now, perhaps too embarassing to leave online!

It's still going on and recent CP enhancement plans have quoted individual feeding area AT upgrade in the £100ms, so the total cost must be reaching £1-2bn now. It's hard to find a total though, not least because the grid costs are separated in advance, and not always quoted at all.
 
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thecrofter

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WCPSU was part of WCML upgrade from the late 1990s. Full AT end to end, to be delivered in a few years for a couple of hundred million. I can't find much info on WCRM now, perhaps too embarassing to leave online!

It's still going on and recent CP enhancement plans have quoted individual feeding area AT upgrade in the £100ms, so the total cost must be reaching £1-2bn now. It's hard to find a total though, not least because the grid costs are separated in advance, and not always quoted at all.
The seven West Coast National Grid (AT) sites were procured as part of the original WCRM budget and included in that overall total (£9.6b) so that's why you won't find them in any subsequent PSU figures. The last site to be completed was Frodsham / Weaver (2009) and cost around £32m (that's National Grid costs only).
 
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Camden TSC is at the north end of Park Street tunnel around structures G/00/202-204.
Thanks for that, there's not as much of an obvious lineside building with bushings coming out of it one would expect so I suppose it's all connected by ducted cables from somewhere. As it happens, I chanced across the DC substation named "Camden" on about what googlemaps says no.38 Gloucester Avenue is. Also on that road, there is a squat whitewashed 1960s-ish brick building between apartment blocks and the big "number 36" block; that's my suspect for where Camden TSC's equipment is.
What makes you think there's an interconnector from Acton Lane to Gospel Oak?
1748816850797.png
This rather confusing diagram I've found on a letter from NwR about constrained power capacity. Now that I looked at it with fresher eyes, I see I've made a complete error in comprehending what it was trying to say - my bad. Now that I know what Brunel Road TSC is, I suppose "Acton Ln FS extension" is an extension made in the 1990s for NLL wiring - not in 2018 for the T&H.
 

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