Stagecoach Yorkshire and Chesterfield

[mk1979]

It's currently 4.3m but - at least according to people who seem to know these things on another forum - there has been a change to the way it has been measured and a new mandatory limit of 4m has been / is going to be introduced. It's causing First headaches I believe.

The bridge currently has a height warning sign of 14'3". I understand that may change to 14' at some point but all our vehicles other than 18467 are under 14'.

I'd never come across a ferry lift before, interesting idea! Would such a thing allow it to cross the hump back bridge at Chatsworth and run to Rowsley?

Perhaps but I understand that bridge has a weight limit too.

 

[Teapot42]

Perhaps but I understand that bridge has a weight limit too.

What are the rules regarding registered bus services being able to cross bridges with a lower weight limit? The E400EVs crossing the bridge at Bubnell are surely well in excess of the 7.5t weight limit so I assume there is some allowance. The bridge on the way to Rowsley appears to have a very specific exemption of 13.5t gross weight for buses and coaches. I know TM used to operate older deckers over there on the 217(?) to Matlock, but I wonder if this weight limit was imposed since, as surely all deckers would be in excess of this - if Wikipedia is correct, even some E200s exceed this. (And is presumably why Solos are used on the 160)

I have wondered for a while if there would be an option of converting some of the older E200s or 300s in to semi-open toppers. There are a few routes with either low bridges (to Monsal Head via Great Longstone for example) or low trees where a lower height open topper could open up new opportunities. Also, with a suitable ramp fitted you could have the very marketable claim of a wheelchair accessible open top service.

I hope you don't mind another question, but I believe the Zebra bid required two choices of bus to be submitted? What was the alternative proposal to the E400EVs?

Thanks.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

What are the rules regarding registered bus services being able to cross bridges with a lower weight limit? The E400EVs crossing the bridge at Bubnell are surely well in excess of the 7.5t weight limit so I assume there is some allowance. The bridge on the way to Rowsley appears to have a very specific exemption of 13.5t gross weight for buses and coaches. I know TM used to operate older deckers over there on the 217(?) to Matlock, but I wonder if this weight limit was imposed since, as surely all deckers would be in excess of this - if Wikipedia is correct, even some E200s exceed this. (And is presumably why Solos are used on the 160)

If the sign shows a picture of a lorry it only applies to goods vehicles, or a sign saying "except for access" would exempt local service buses as they are accessing the stretch of road in question for local usages to board or alight. Signs with just the weight or with axle pictograms would apply to buses. According to the ADL website the E200MMC is plated max weight is effectively 13t

 

[Teapot42]

If the sign shows a picture of a lorry it only applies to goods vehicles, or a sign saying "except for access" would exempt local service buses as they are accessing the stretch of road in question for local usages to board or alight. Signs with just the weight or with axle pictograms would apply to buses. According to the ADL website the E200MMC is plated max weight is effectively 13t

Both bridges are signed at 7.5t - the one at Bubnell would be covered by that exemption, but the one near Beeley has a specific limit for buses and coaches of 13.5t.

Would a ferry lift add to the plated gross weight? Due to the hump of the bridge in question I would imagine anything longer than an 8.9m E200 would need one fitting to be able to cross it.

 

[Cesarcollie]

If the sign shows a picture of a lorry it only applies to goods vehicles, or a sign saying "except for access" would exempt local service buses as they are accessing the stretch of road in question for local usages to board or alight. Signs with just the weight or with axle pictograms would apply to buses. According to the ADL website the E200MMC is plated max weight is effectively 13t

And it is also true to say that in some cases the sign displayed - whether for weight, width, or other restrictions, doesn’t actually reflect the traffic order which gives it the legal weight. So I have come across signs where the generic version is displayed, but actually buses are exempted. If the local bus company has done its research, it can of course ignore the signs!

 

[psmith2023]

Looks like some double decker electric has been put on the x17s looks like issues part fixed

 

[syjunkie]

Looks like some double decker electric has been put on the x17s looks like issues part fixed

Noticed some of them have been on x17 but only short workings, none to barnsley

 

[Teapot42]

Noticed some of them have been on x17 but only short workings, none to barnsley

And not the full diagram either. They seem to get swapped in part-way through the day, or only do the evening service which often interworks with something else anyway.

It doesn't seem uncommon to see a Yutong on the Barnsley diagram though.

Of course, as well as the X17 this will also be causing issues for the 43 diagrams (which includes the 25, 42, 44 and 50) as these interwork with the X17. That said, the EV which came on to the X17 yesterday afternoon was on a working on one of these diagrams so maybe they are now at least happy to allocate them there.

 

[Hyebone]

They were being put on graphs without Barnsley trips (so they were going all the way to Wirksworth, hardly a short trip)

It seems they aren't doing that either anymore, the whole route is back to diesels

 

[m79900]

Is it likely they'll keep some diesel deckers then?

 

[mk1979]

Another day of 100% availability of our 41 Yutong's - an absolutely phenominal product.

There are two software updates for the £400EV's, one being implemented at the moment and one due in a few weeks time. Got to remember these are effectively 1st edition vehicles and with any 1st edition product it requires updates as real world experience is gained - just ask any of the major car manufacturers.

There is lots of interworking from early evening onwards as vehicles swap over for charging. We're learning lots about charging and the emerging tech on this is very clever. We're deploying smart charging and working with suppliers to develop it further which will probably reduce the need for interworking in future.

We may keep a couple of diesel deckers at Chesterfield but no more than a handful as the pvr keeps increasing.

 

[Llandudno]

Another day of 100% availability of our 41 Yutong's - an absolutely phenominal product.

There are two software updates for the £400EV's, one being implemented at the moment and one due in a few weeks time. Got to remember these are effectively 1st edition vehicles and with any 1st edition product it requires updates as real world experience is gained - just ask any of the major car manufacturers.

There is lots of interworking from early evening onwards as vehicles swap over for charging. We're learning lots about charging and the emerging tech on this is very clever. We're deploying smart charging and working with suppliers to develop it further which will probably reduce the need for interworking in future.

We may keep a couple of diesel deckers at Chesterfield but no more than a handful as the pvr keeps increasing.

Great to hear that the Yutong’s are super reliable!

Hoping it’s not too long before the electric deckers are back on the X17s as the tired old diesel deckers are not great for such a prestigious (and presumably extremely profitable?) route.

Hopefully the PVR at Chesterfield depot will keep increasing, howabout a 15 minute frequency on the X17s on the Chesterfield-Sheffield section with either the Bolsover or Danesmoor buses running through?

 

[JD2168]

And not the full diagram either. They seem to get swapped in part-way through the day, or only do the evening service which often interworks with something else anyway.

It doesn't seem uncommon to see a Yutong on the Barnsley diagram though.

Of course, as well as the X17 this will also be causing issues for the 43 diagrams (which includes the 25, 42, 44 and 50) as these interwork with the X17. That said, the EV which came on to the X17 yesterday afternoon was on a working on one of these diagrams so maybe they are now at least happy to allocate them there.

There was an EV scheduled for the board which runs the 7:05pm from Chesterfield but this run was run by 15534 which ran from Chesterfield late as it had dead run from Stonegravels to the Coach Station, this is a Barnsley run.

 

[mk1979]

Hoping it’s not too long before the electric deckers are back on the X17s as the tired old diesel deckers are not great for such a prestigious (and presumably extremely profitable?) route.

It's temporary whilst ADL work through the software updates and whilst the fleet is in a state of flux.

Hopefully the PVR at Chesterfield depot will keep increasing, howabout a 15 minute frequency on the X17s on the Chesterfield-Sheffield section with either the Bolsover or Danesmoor buses running through?

Maybe! Will be needing to buy more EV deckers at this rate...

 

[Llandudno]

It's temporary whilst ADL work through the software updates and whilst the fleet is in a state of flux.

Maybe! Will be needing to buy more EV deckers at this rate...

It’s great to see the positivity at Chesterfield depot, the electric buses are fantastic and much superior in comfort and cleanliness to many of the trains running in the area.

The recent introduction of Stagecoach buses in the Alfreton/Crich areas plus running high quality vehicles on the Bakewell route has significantly improved reliability and hopefully passengers numbers will start to increase as they can now trust that the bus will turn up.

Thumbs up from me!

 

[chiltern trev]

I've seen references to Ferry Lifts.

Why do you fit Ferry Lift suspension if the bus is not going on a ferry? Bad roads, camber, bends on inclines etc to prevent bottom of bus damage?

[I ave heard of Ferry Lift as we are interested and have used certain ferry routes. So you need the extra suspension height for negotiating the linkspan ramps and the humps therein and also the moveable internal ferry deck floors to go from from one main vehicle deck up to a higher full height vehicle deck where the loading linkspan is only a single deck version.]

 

[Teapot42]

There was an EV scheduled for the board which runs the 7:05pm from Chesterfield but this run was run by 15534 which ran from Chesterfield late as it had dead run from Stonegravels to the Coach Station, this is a Barnsley run.

A quick look on bustimes suggests there is a lot of variation on what runs that service. I don't think any two days I've checked have been the same thing. It doesn't run off the 18:31 from Matlock - the timetable shows this as being a change of bus at Chesterfield.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

Hopefully the PVR at Chesterfield depot will keep increasing, howabout a 15 minute frequency on the X17s on the Chesterfield-Sheffield section with either the Bolsover or Danesmoor buses running through?

I've been advocating this for a while, although I'd also aim for every 30 minutes to Meadowhall. I'd also question whether the service has to run Barnsley to Matlock - it's a long way with lots of delay potential. Matlock and Wirksworth to Sheffield and Barnsley and Meadowhall to Chesterfield (possibly extended beyond as you suggest) would surely make it easier to recover from delays.

I wonder if integrating the 170 in to this might work as well - while the end to end wouldn't compete with the 218, it would open up easier journeys to Bakewell from a wider area. During the summer it would be a great feeder in to the Peak Sightseer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

Maybe! Will be needing to buy more EV deckers at this rate...

Is it realistic that Stonegravels would get that sort of funding outside of a scheme like Zebra? It would be great if so (and some Enviro100s for the 90 please!) but I always got the impression we lived mostly on hand-me-downs.

 

[mk1979]

I've seen references to Ferry Lifts.

Why do you fit Ferry Lift suspension if the bus is not going on a ferry? Bad roads, camber, bends on inclines etc to prevent bottom of bus damage?

[I ave heard of Ferry Lift as we are interested and have used certain ferry routes. So you need the extra suspension height for negotiating the linkspan ramps and the humps therein and also the moveable internal ferry deck floors to go from from one main vehicle deck up to a higher full height vehicle deck where the loading linkspan is only a single deck version.]

Ferry lifts mostly used as you say to negotiate the link span on ferries.

Can come in useful in other circumstances when you need the additional clearance. Not sure why Lincolnshire RoadCar would have specified it, I don’t know their network well enough to know where you would need it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2025 ==

Is it realistic that Stonegravels would get that sort of funding outside of a scheme like Zebra? It would be great if so (and some Enviro100s for the 90 please!) but I always got the impression we lived mostly on hand-me-downs.

The total cost of ownership of EV’s are coming down all the time so at some point they will become a commercial proposition.

We’re trialling a Yutong E9 sometime in June, can’t remember the height but if we can we’ll take it on a run over the routes that aren’t electric yet. We’ve also been promised a E100EV trial at some point.

 

[Hyebone]

(and some Enviro100s for the 90 please!)

That would pose some real capacity issues I reckon. 90s get fairly loaded even with the E300s that have been popping up.

 

[Teapot42]

That would pose some real capacity issues I reckon. 90s get fairly loaded even with the E300s that have been popping up.

I guess the other option would be to re-work the network to bypass that troublesome bridge.

It would mean a change to the interworking, but one option would be to extend both ends of the 25, so it became Staveley to Somersall. Not sure how you'd re-jig the rest of the route without duplicating running between Hollingwood and Staveley though. Maybe tweak the 74 so it only does Middlecroft, and the 90 does Inkersall Green, then via Inkersall itself (big new housing development there which needs a service...)

 

[py_megapixel]

One of the gold E400s has spent the last couple of days on Holbrook routes for some reason... today has seen several standard E400s on the X17 while a gold one potters back and forth along the 120.

On the plus side, as I write this there are several electrics out on the X17, albeit mostly Yutongs and only one E400

 

[Teapot42]

One of the gold E400s has spent the last couple of days on Holbrook routes for some reason... today has seen several standard E400s on the X17 while a gold one potters back and forth along the 120.

Presumably there will have been a plan to cascade the better vehicles from Stonegravels when the EVs arrived. The issue with the E400EVs won't have been known about when this plan was made, and I'd take a guess that it's only possible to delay those moves so long.

It was noted elsewhere that it's mostly Scania E400s that are being used - presumably these are better suited to the nature of the route.

On the plus side, as I write this there are several electrics out on the X17, albeit mostly Yutongs and only one E400

It's not been uncommon to see this for the last few weeks. However the E400EVs only appear in the evening and only on the route out towards Matlock. There has been a Yutong used most days on one Barnsley run - they seem to cope fine, but I wonder if capacity and suitability of seating for such a long route are issues.

 

[dmtransport841]

15194 is the second gold to arrive at Sheffield this week, this time at Ecclesfield

 

[syjunkie]

15194 is the second gold to arrive at Sheffield this week, this time at Ecclesfield

Been there a couple days now, also 15708 had a thermal incident today while on the 57

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2025 ==

37098 has now been repainted and is the first e200 to be fully vinyled

 

[JD2168]

The only YN12 plate Scania Enviro 400’s at Chesterfield now are 15824 & 15828, all the others of this batch are at Barnsley except 15826 which is at Ecclesfield. The other decker to move to Barnsley recently is 15537.

Enviro 400’s 19199, 19222, 19224, 19226 are now running from Barnsley.

Enviro 300’s 27187, 27188, 27232, 27233, 27235-27237 are now at Barnsley.

Additional Scania Enviro 400’s at Ecclesfield are 15194, 15688, 15690, 15691 from Chesterfield. Other vehicles to move into Ecclesfield are the ex Manchester Enviro 400’s displaced from Chesterfield.

X17 update, currently a mix of Scania Enviro 400’s (except 15195) & Yutong’s. The Scania’s tend to go on the busy runs. Enviro 400 EV’s have appeared on occasions but only on Sheffield to Wirksworth section.

 

[W176 XMA]

The only YN12 plate Scania Enviro 400’s at Chesterfield now are 15824 & 15828, all the others of this batch are at Barnsley except 15826 which is at Ecclesfield. The other decker to move to Barnsley recently is 15537.

Enviro 400’s 19199, 19222, 19224, 19226 are now running from Barnsley.

Enviro 300’s 27187, 27188, 27232, 27233, 27235-27237 are now at Barnsley.

Additional Scania Enviro 400’s at Ecclesfield are 15194, 15688, 15690, 15691 from Chesterfield. Other vehicles to move into Ecclesfield are the ex Manchester Enviro 400’s displaced from Chesterfield.

X17 update, currently a mix of Scania Enviro 400’s (except 15195) & Yutong’s. The Scania’s tend to go on the busy runs. Enviro 400 EV’s have appeared on occasions but only on Sheffield to Wirksworth section.

27235 is a Manchester bus

 

[Teapot42]

The only YN12 plate Scania Enviro 400’s at Chesterfield now are 15824 & 15828, all the others of this batch are at Barnsley except 15826 which is at Ecclesfield. The other decker to move to Barnsley recently is 15537.

X17 update, currently a mix of Scania Enviro 400’s (except 15195) & Yutong’s. The Scania’s tend to go on the busy runs. Enviro 400 EV’s have appeared on occasions but only on Sheffield to Wirksworth section.

15824 seems the be tracking at Barnsley currently.

Why is 15195 not used on the X17? It is on there today...

Not sure there are enough Scanias for the busy runs - the 7:14 ex Walton and the 15:50 ex Sheffield (to Chesterfield) seems to be Yutongs more often that not of late, and often have people standing. Seems a long time since we were promised a solution very shortly.

Out of interest, why are the E300s not used on the X17, rather substituting for Yutongs on other services?

 

[JD2168]

15824 seems the be tracking at Barnsley currently.

Why is 15195 not used on the X17? It is on there today...

Not sure there are enough Scanias for the busy runs - the 7:14 ex Walton and the 15:50 ex Sheffield (to Chesterfield) seems to be Yutongs more often that not of late, and often have people standing. Seems a long time since we were promised a solution very shortly.

Out of interest, why are the E300s not used on the X17, rather substituting for Yutongs on other services?

Sure there is something around whether 15195 was Euro6 converted like the others. Apart from it’s 2 days at Holbrook recently today is the first in a while that it has not been on Chesterfield local routes. Seems to mainly run the 51/54 & also did a day on 39 this week.

Not sure about the Enviro 300’s although they do appear regularly on 65 & 63 as well so must be mainly for these. It could also be that as the Yutong’s have the higher backed seats they are seen as more premium than the Enviro 300’s

 

[Teapot42]

Sure there is something around whether 15195 was Euro6 converted like the others. Apart from it’s 2 days at Holbrook recently today is the first in a while that it has not been on Chesterfield local routes. Seems to mainly run the 51/54 & also did a day on 39 this week.

Not sure about the Enviro 300’s although they do appear regularly on 65 & 63 as well so must be mainly for these. It could also be that as the Yutong’s have the higher backed seats they are seen as more premium than the Enviro 300’s

Is there a difference in the seating between the E10s and the E12s? I've not been on an E12 yet (my wife has several times...) but the E10 seats are incredibly cramped. I had to manspread to the point where I feel like I'm dislocating my hips, and she can barely fit in at 5'5. If they fitted decent seats (and upped the frequency to every 20 minutes on the core section) then I think the Yutongs would make great buses for the X17. No issues with range or top speed. Also the route (off-peak) seems very popular with pensioners, so not running 'deckers makes it more accessible.

If 15195 isn't Euro 6 then they'll have racked up a lot of fines surely as it's been a regular on the route. The government checker appears to be wrong - the 59 plates show as not compliant on that, but I'm told they are.

Maybe just feeling it's age, or had some work done recently and they were keeping it local in case of problems?

 

[Hyebone]

Is there a difference in the seating between the E10s and the E12s?

E12s have much more legroom on the offside