Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway updates

[LNW-GW Joint]

The current Euston-Wolverhampton (Pendolino) service now runs on to Preston and (mostly) Scotland.
Avanti would need to extend one of the other Birmingham services to serve Shrewsbury.
The semi-fast 80x (stops at Watford, MKC and Rugby) would seem to be the appropriate one, assuming it could be operated by 805s.
There have also been plans to run a loop Euston-Crewe-Chester-Wrexham-Shrewsbury-Birmingham-Euston (and reverse) in the past.
That would not add paths to the WCML either, and could alternate North Wales coast/Shrewsbury, but there might not be enough 805s for that.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

There have also been plans to run a loop Euston-Crewe-Chester-Wrexham-Shrewsbury-Birmingham-Euston (and reverse) in the past.

Wouldn't that mess up the "first class always faces London", or is that not a thing for the 805s?

 

[The Planner]

A lot of talk here is about demand from Shrewsbury, but the train starts at Wrexham, where unlike before, there is much more demand now.

Kelloggs is a huge employer and did use the previous iteration fairly regularly, and now DWP have a big presence in the city, so potential civil servant trips to and from Caxton House in London would be an almost certainty.

That's without the leisure demand around the football club, and the popularity of the city and surrounding areas which has exploded in recent years.

You could solve that with better connections to Chester though?

 

[A S Leib]

Wouldn't that mess up the "first class always faces London", or is that not a thing for the 805s?

The 19:16 Euston to Wolverhampton's a ten-coach Evero and has first class at the London end of each portion rather than in the middle.

 

[weeklycommuter]

I think TFW have quietly dropped the idea of a Liverpool -Shrewsbury-Cardiff service…

They seem to be putting their eggs in a Liverpool-Bidston-Wrexham basket every 15 minutes!
(Won’t happen, of course but there is an election in the spring!)

Instead there is yet another application for an open access passenger train service, this time from Liverpool & South Wales Railway. I am not sure how they think they can obtain Class 22X rolling stock. There is a lot of demand for this in open access passenger train service applications including the WSMR application and a very limited supply.

Current track access applications | Office of Rail and Road

All documents relating to track access applications we are currently considering. This may include application forms, draft agreements, any related documents and responses we make public.

www.orr.gov.uk

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2025-05/lswr-section-17-form-p.pdf

This application is for a 7-year operation of 8 Open Access Liverpool Lime Street to Cardiff International Airport services in each direction on Monday to Saturdays and 6 on Sundays, using the available capacity and Class 22X rolling stock (including first and standard class accommodation). The train services shall call at Liverpool Lime Street- Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Chester - Wrexham General - Shrewsbury - Ludlow - Hereford - Newport - Cardiff Parkway (when opened) - Cardiff Central - Barry - Rhoose Cardiff International Airport.
This will unlock wholly new direct 'inter-city' quality 'cross-country' connectivity between Merseyside, Chester and Wrexham, Merseyside to the Marches counties of Shropshire and Herefordshire, from both the Marches and the South Wales urban heart of Newport and Cardiff to Cardiff International Airport, all within a new North West England to South Wales strategic, fast service.

 

[Bald Rick]

A solution that has been discussed before mightbe to extend the Euston to Wolverhampton service to Shrewsbury, maybe every 2 or even 3 hours. I'm sure there are many reasons why this isn't feasible and I'm equally sure that the good folk on this forum will say why.

you‘ve answered this yourself:

I went to a meeting where the management showed us a revenue graph that was flat-lining below the point at which it was profitable.

The obvious thing to do to see if there's actually latent demand which can be stimulated would be to extend the Wolverhampton service at a high enough frequency to be useful

but:

The current Euston-Wolverhampton (Pendolino) service now runs on to Preston and (mostly) Scotland.
Avanti would need to extend one of the other Birmingham services to serve Shrewsbury.
The semi-fast 80x (stops at Watford, MKC and Rugby) would seem to be the appropriate one, assuming it could be operated by 805s.

The 805s are largely concentrated on the Chester / N Wales services. You would have to cancel several of those to free up stock for Shrewsbury.

 

[poffle]

you‘ve answered this yourself:







but:



The 805s are largely concentrated on the Chester / N Wales services. You would have to cancel several of those to free up stock for Shrewsbury.

The 805s were actually bought to serve Shrewsbury as well as Chester/North Wales. However DFT instructed Avanti to drop the existing Shrewsbury services before the 805s entered service.

This is why Avanti have bimode trains running entirely under the wires.

 

[Bald Rick]

The 805s were actually bought to serve Shrewsbury as well as Chester/North Wales. However DFT instructed Avanti to drop the existing Shrewsbury services before the 805s entered service.

This is why Avanti have bimode trains running entirely under the wires.

A couple of return trips to Birmingham per day, and then those at the start / end of the day due to them being maintained at Oxley. Little scope for anything more than Avanti’s previous Shrewsbury offering, whichas we know lost a ton of money.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The 805s were actually bought to serve Shrewsbury as well as Chester/North Wales. However DFT instructed Avanti to drop the existing Shrewsbury services before the 805s entered service.
This is why Avanti have bimode trains running entirely under the wires.

One of the current 805 services is the early Blackpool-Euston, which combines with a Holyhead-Euston at Crewe.
It then runs to/from Chester/North Wales for the ret of the day.
To deliver that diagram it would be hard not to run a bi-mode 805 under the wires on the Blackpool leg.
We don't know how Avanti would have delivered 805s to Shrewsbury in the current timetable.
The Holyhead services get more double-set workings than was the equivalent with 221s, so that's where some of the new capacity has gone.

 

[poffle]

One of the current 805 services is the early Blackpool-Euston, which combines with a Holyhead-Euston at Crewe.
It then runs to/from Chester/North Wales for the ret of the day.
To deliver that diagram it would be hard not to run a bi-mode 805 under the wires on the Blackpool leg.
We don't know how Avanti would have delivered 805s to Shrewsbury in the current timetable.
The Holyhead services get more double-set workings than was the equivalent with 221s, so that's where some of the new capacity has gone.

Holyhead actually has fewer double workings with the introduction of the 805s.

The only regular double working is the early morning 1D80 Birmingham - Holyhead which turns around to form the 1A26 08:53 Holyhead - Euston.

The other Holyhead services are only single sets beyond Chester.

 

[NorthWalian]

You could solve that with better connections to Chester though?

Problem is that Chester - London is expensive which then necessitates a second change via Crewe or a very slow Wrexham - Birmingham - London route

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The 805s were actually bought to serve Shrewsbury as well as Chester/North Wales. However DFT instructed Avanti to drop the existing Shrewsbury services before the 805s entered service.

This is why Avanti have bimode trains running entirely under the wires.

Which, I might add, is hardly a problem so long as the pantograph is up… especially as they replaced diesels running entirely under wires.

Holyhead actually has fewer double workings with the introduction of the 805s.

The only regular double working is the early morning 1D80 Birmingham - Holyhead which turns around to form the 1A26 08:53 Holyhead - Euston.

The other Holyhead services are only single sets beyond Chester.

At least some capacity is gained by the carriage lengths and how well they’re utilised. A good third of the Voyager 23m carriages is vestibule space and oversized toilets, compared to 805‘s 26m carriages with a much more efficient layout. A single 805 will pack in far more than a single Voyager.

 

[Harpo]

Regardless of what happens, I don't think I've seen an MP genuinely this passionate about 'anything'. Kudos to her!

As a new intake MP, perhaps the Sir Humphreys, whips and others haven’t caught up with Ms Buckley yet?

 

[weeklycommuter]

Hopefully the June ORR Board will be deciding the WCML ones and the July OR Board will be deciding the ECML ones. After each Board the determination letters will then have to be crafted in full, checked for legality, and finally sent out.

If the ORR Board can’t agree on any decision, that application will go back a month until they get the info. they need to make a decision.

When is the board meeting date do you know?

I am guessing the June ORR Board meeting when a decision on the WSMR application is expected is next week, probably on Tuesday 24 June from the pattern of previous meeting dates, but I do not know the date of this ORR Board meeting and I can find no information about it. As nothing has been announced so far I assume it has not happened yet. The ORR Board now appear to have all the information they need to make their decisions on the WCML and ECML open access applications so they really need now to make their decisions on these applications without further delay. Everyone is now just waiting for the ORR Board to make their decisions.

 

[Zontar]

I am guessing the June ORR Board meeting when a decision on the WSMR application is expected is next week, probably on Tuesday 24 June from the pattern of previous meeting dates, but I do not know the date of this ORR Board meeting and I can find no information about it. As nothing has been announced so far I assume it has not happened yet. The ORR Board now appear to have all the information they need to make their decisions on the WCML and ECML open access applications so they really need now to make their decisions on these applications without further delay. Everyone is now just waiting for the ORR Board to make their decisions.

Yes agree. It is literally watch this space.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I am guessing the June ORR Board meeting when a decision on the WSMR application is expected is next week, probably on Tuesday 24 June from the pattern of previous meeting dates, but I do not know the date of this ORR Board meeting and I can find no information about it. As nothing has been announced so far I assume it has not happened yet. The ORR Board now appear to have all the information they need to make their decisions on the WCML and ECML open access applications so they really need now to make their decisions on these applications without further delay. Everyone is now just waiting for the ORR Board to make their decisions.

The reports on the ECML applications appear not to have been finalised as the ORR are still discussing some aspects with the applicants. The WCML discussions stopped a few weeks ago so it looks as if they have met the June Board deadlines.

However, even if a decision is reached on all the WCML applications, the Decision Letters need to be carefully crafted. These are legally important so you can’t just sling them out.

 

[zwk500]

However, even if a decision is reached on all the WCML applications, the Decision Letters need to be carefully crafted. These are legally important so you can’t just sling them out.

Indeed, especially if there is a decision that 'Some but not all' can be approved, the people who lose out are likely to consider appeals to higher authorities. The decision criteria will need to be very clearly laid out and the assessments carefully referenced against them.

 

[AlanL]

The Shrewsbury MP is quoted as saying that the ORR decision on the WSMR open access application will be decided very soon, probably next week and she seems optimistic that it will get the go-ahead, but that's just her view and there will be very detailed negotiations going on behind the scenes. The WSMR itself has been publicly very quiet recently!

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I think it's incredibly likely to be approved - possibly the only one out of the lot of them.

Although I have a sneaking suspicion that it won't be operated by Alstom and a certain blue company may see an opportunity to acquire.

 

[Harpo]

Fourth time lucky. Lets hope the definition of insanity isn’t proven again.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The Shrewsbury MP is quoted as saying that the ORR decision on the WSMR open access application will be decided very soon, probably next week and she seems optimistic that it will get the go-ahead, but that's just her view and there will be very detailed negotiations going on behind the scenes. The WSMR itself has been publicly very quiet recently!

Once the report has been written for the ORR Board, there won’t be any further discussions or negotiations. They go into purdah until they decide. It would be an abuse of legal process if they didn’t and that would then lead to (High Court) appeals from others.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Holyhead actually has fewer double workings with the introduction of the 805s.
The only regular double working is the early morning 1D80 Birmingham - Holyhead which turns around to form the 1A26 08:53 Holyhead - Euston.
The other Holyhead services are only single sets beyond Chester.

There are six 10-car 805 services today from Chester to Euston.
I only remember 2, or possibly 3 in Voyager days.
Of the six, two as you say start in Holyhead and one is a portion from Wrexham.
The increase in double set working is from Chester.

 

[ainsworth74]

See this thread for discussion of the recent letter sent by the DfT to the ORR regarding Open Access. The discussion has been moved to a new thread as it has wider implications than just WSMR application.

 

[Zontar]

Has anyone heard anything or know when the board meeting was?

 

[Clarence Yard]

The board meeting has taken place and we may see Decision Letters this week for the WCML applications.

 

[KashmireHawker]

The board meeting has taken place and we may see Decision Letters this week for the WCML applications.

In living in Wolverhampton and in wanting to know if they’ll soon be different way of reaching London: I hope so!

 

[LondonTrains15]

Decision expected tomorrow according to https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1155705843251426&id=100064360621797

 

[John R]

I’m presume 7am to have the news out before the markets open.

 

[Bertiethebobby]

I’m presume 7am to have the news out before the markets open.

As expected it’s been rejected

 

[XCTurbostar]

Response from Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway:

03.07.2025
A spokesperson for Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway said: “We are extremely disappointed with the Office of Rail and Road’s decision to reject our application – the only current application to receive support from the Department for Transport. We have spent the past two years demonstrating that capacity and performance concerns can and would be negated by the industry working together to deliver a better railway for passengers. WSMR would have set new standards for how open access operators can and should work alongside nationalised rail services.“Since our application was submitted in March 2024, we have received overwhelming support from local people, businesses, councillors and MPs, who all recognise the urgent need for this connectivity.
We will now urgently seek to reengage with the ORR and determine our next steps regarding the future of this vital passenger service.”

What action could WSMR take in this scenario, I assume another OA application will just be a waste of their time and money.