Regional Eurostar Connecting Services (mid 90s?)

gswindale · 6 Oct 2012

Hi All,

I believe that when the Eurostar service was first launched; that there were some regional HST services that connected with it at Waterloo.

Is anybody able to tell me a little more about these services - who operated them and where they actually ran out of Waterloo to? If anybody has any timetables that relate; that would be a great help as well

Many Thanks
Geoffrey

RailUK Forums

Eagle · 6 Oct 2012

Many of them were operated by Virgin XC (running via Reading and Birmingham to northern destinations such as Glasgow and Liverpool). Wales and West also got a few paths into Waterloo via Bristol and Salisbury, although obviously those weren't HSTs.

30907 · 6 Oct 2012

The Kentrail website provides a summary which fits with my recollections.

http://www.kentrail.org.uk/eurostar_intercity_125.htm

Briefly, there was an out-and-back from Edinburgh via ECML and one from Manchester (via Birmingham?) and WCML. XC sets were used - was this the only XC service regularly between Coventry and Willesden Jn?

Interestingly, the W&W service via Salisbury and Bristol (158!) is the one that has survived, in the shape of the SWT services to and from Bristol.
I recall that Haverfordwest was a start or finish point; I also recall a late-night one going back from Waterloo via Reading-Swindon.

Sorry, don't have the relevant timetables handy to check the details. Given time, I could ferret them out if it's vitally important.

jamesontheroad · 6 Oct 2012

I'm 99% certain they were only available to passengers with CIV tickets, and were mostly empty most of the time.

laird · 6 Oct 2012

They were open to anyone, no requirement for CIV, but they did require you to have a reservation for the section into Waterloo. No turn up and go permitted.
The Bristol to Waterloo via Salisbury service operated by Wales and West continues to survive (the others having been dropped), although now it is a South West Trains service.

gswindale · 6 Oct 2012

Thanks guys,

I was looking at writing an activity for MSTS (Dorset Coast route) incorporating one of these services; but from what I can gather; it seems that the HST services mainly joined the Waterloo lines just outside Clapham Junction?

I had rather hoped that there had been a service that took a trip down the Windsor lines and joined the Great Western at Reading, but nevermind.

yorkie · 6 Oct 2012

Yes, they would have gone via Kensington Olympia.

flymo posted the timetable from 1998 when this was discussed last year, which may be of interest.

30907 · 6 Oct 2012

Flymo's post refers to the actual Eurostar proposals as opposed to the connecting services.

As to W and W services - I think (but will happily be corrected) one each way went via Reading which could in theory have gone via Staines rather than via Willesden SW (access to the GWML at Old Oak Common was severed by the building of North Pole Depot).

flymo · 7 Oct 2012

yorkie said:
Yes, they would have gone via Kensington Olympia.

flymo posted the timetable from 1998 when this was discussed last year, which may be of interest.

Indeed I did, thanks Yorkie..

The timetable in the link above shows the though Eurostar services that were once planned but never happened.

The HST connection services to Waterloo did happen though and I remember the ECML one left Newcastle around 09:00 heading to Waterloo and was shown as 'Waterloo only' on the old flip-dot destination board there was there at the time .I don't think these HST services lasted long though.

yorkie · 7 Oct 2012

Yes, there is some confusion here!

The Regional Eurostars (referred to in the thread title) did not actually ever run, and they were instead used for domestic services, mostly abroad but they were used by GNER for around 5 years.

The connecting services were not Regional Eurostars and were HSTs, and they did not last long. I don't ever remember them happening at the time however people who used the services have posted about them on this forum in previous threads (a search using Google specifying site:www.railforums.co.uk might find them)

route:oxford · 7 Oct 2012

A repost of an earlier posting by me:-

I used the link service between Edinburgh and Waterloo back in 1995 (or it could have been 1994).

It was a bit of a faff. We booked the hotel and Eurostar through a travel agent, but the connection ticket had to be bought at Waverley using evidence of the Eurostar Journey. Sounds simple, but the Eurostar ticket was to be collected at Waterloo... Then there was the hassle of wanting to spend two nights in London on the return trip...

I'm sure the service was quite early leaving Edinburgh, there are distant memories of being in Waverley about 7am, which meant getting early connections to Edinburgh.

The service itself... Erm, well my brother and I were the only 2 passengers on the HST as it left Edinburgh. The buffet manager walked through to our coach to take our orders for any refreshments - and invited us to move through to 1st class so he wouldn't have to walk so far to bring us the snacks!

A few passengers boarded at various stops in England, with lots of confused faces of passengers on the platforms as warnings were given that the service was for international passengers only. We were the only ones that were upgraded - so had 1st to ourselves throughout. When we reached Waterloo I counted fewer than 40 passengers disembarking.

The route arond London was a strange one, we seemed to skirt round various places using what looked like freight routes - sometimes at walking pace. I do recall seeing the TVAM building at Camden Lock.

Passenger loadings were similar on the return trip, there were was just the two of us disembarking in Edinburgh on the return.

kylemore · 7 Oct 2012

I remember using this service - if it had simply gone into King's Cross we could have made our way to Waterloo on the Tube and be sitting having our second pint in the station bar by the time we trundled round to Waterloo!

flymo · 7 Oct 2012

kylemore said:
I remember using this service - if it had simply gone into King's Cross we could have made our way to Waterloo on the Tube and be sitting having our second pint in the station bar by the time we trundled round to Waterloo!

Now where is the fun in that...?? (apart from the beer of course)

I must admit, the Waterloo HST connection is one train I wish I had of been able to do from Newcastle but just never got the time unfortunately.

Ah well...

knight2004 · 7 Oct 2012

i remember the manchester to Waterloo service, I was 14 and it was my first time abroad (and with school) i was v excited, it was a quiet train but 15 13/14 year olds made up for it!!!
it did take like 4.5 hours tho!

ChiefPlanner · 7 Oct 2012

These (random) services were put in after local authority etc consultation - shall we say they were regarded as a "free good" , and the loadings were such that they did not last long - bar some of the W&W service(s) , which part survive today.

The very late evening Cardiff - Waterloo , and early (05xx) back was a classic example of a superfluous service - ECS to Reading most days one gathers..!

E16 Cyclist · 7 Oct 2012

If i remember righty the night riveria also ran to/from Waterloo so that west of England passengers could connect onto the Eurostar, obviously these days it's be reverted back to paddington

gswindale · 7 Oct 2012

Thanks all - it does make for some interesting reading.

I'm guessing that they weren't particularly well advertised either which probably didn't help.

anthony263 · 7 Oct 2012

I remember the wales and west service which left Pembroke Dock at 20:15 and arrived into London Waterloo at 04:15 before it then formed the 05:05 London Waterloo - Maesteg service.

D1009 · 11 Oct 2012

ChiefPlanner said:
These (random) services were put in after local authority etc consultation - shall we say they were regarded as a "free good" , and the loadings were such that they did not last long - bar some of the W&W service(s) , which part survive today.

The very late evening Cardiff - Waterloo , and early (05xx) back was a classic example of a superfluous service - ECS to Reading most days one gathers..!

These were the early days of privatisation, and in particular the morning train from Carmarthen to Waterloo served different markets than just the Eurostar connection, in fact I doubt whether a high proportion of people used it for this purpose. It provided a through London service from Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge and Warminster for the first time for many years, if ever, and the TOC only fares from stations to and including Bath were highly competetive with the Great Western service to Paddington, even though the 158 was much slower.

skoda12btp · 14 Oct 2012

i remember this service well for virgin trains think it was something like 7:05 to waterloo off coventry ( believe platform 19 ) and around 1730 to manchester and it was via willesden junction but not sure from there to waterloo

jamesontheroad · 14 Oct 2012

I believe, but can't verify, that the HST services from Manchester and Edinburgh operated between 29 May 1995 and 4 January 1997. No idea about the west of England routes.

3141 · 14 Oct 2012

There was a service run by Wales and Borders (successor to Wales and West after the SRA split it into W&B and Wessex) that left Waterloo at 12.20 and ran to Carmarthen (I think). I once travelled on it to Bath and the class 158was almost full, many of the passengers being on their way to a Mexican festival somwewhere in Wales. They were wearing large Mexican hats and had painted-on moustaches.

Drsatan · 14 Oct 2012

3141 said:
There was a service run by Wales and Borders (successor to Wales and West after the SRA split it into W&B and Wessex) that left Waterloo at 12.20 and ran to Carmarthen (I think). I once travelled on it to Bath and the class 158was almost full, many of the passengers being on their way to a Mexican festival somwewhere in Wales. They were wearing large Mexican hats and had painted-on moustaches.

Yeah, I remember that service. From memory, it could also run to Milford Haven & Haverford West as well.

Interestingly enough it was the only service not booked to call at Salisbury

30907 · 14 Oct 2012

jamesontheroad said:
I believe, but can't verify, that the HST services from Manchester and Edinburgh operated between 29 May 1995 and 4 January 1997. No idea about the west of England routes.

The kentrail site linked earlier confirms that. The London end of the W and W routes were absorbed into SWT with franchise changes but I don't have the dates to hand.

3141 · 15 Oct 2012

My recollection is that when we came to the NW Hampshire area in 2002 there were five or six Wales and West trains from Waterloo, including I think one to Manchester. About two years later they were reduced to three. Then in line with the SRA's policy of having just one TOC at London terminals they disappeared, and this probably coincided with the new SWT franchise that started in February 2007. That would be when the three SWT services running to Bristol were introduced.

The argument that it was more efficient to have just a single operator serving Waterloo seemed unconvincing when W&W (or, later, Wales and Borders) ran such a small number of trains from there. There was more to it in respect of Liverpool Street and Paddington. But it wasn't applied to Kings Cross or St. Pancras, or to Victoria and London Bridge.

mister-sparky · 15 Oct 2012

3141 said:
The argument that it was more efficient to have just a single operator serving Waterloo seemed unconvincing when W&W (or, later, Wales and Borders) ran such a small number of trains from there. There was more to it in respect of Liverpool Street and Paddington. But it wasn't applied to Kings Cross or St. Pancras, or to Victoria and London Bridge.

The thing with Victoria and London Bridge is that they were, and effectively still are, run as 2 separate stations. Both have a Southern side and a Southeastern side, completely separate more or less. more so with London Bridge.

Regional Eurostar Connecting Services (mid 90s?)

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