How would passengers be rescued in this situation?

Harlesden · 11 Dec 2012

It is a dark cold winter Sunday evening. You are one of a handful of people on the 21:36 service from Norwich to Great Yarmouth. Five minutes out from Norwich, the train begins slowing down to a crawl and arrives seven down at Reedham. 6-7 minutes later, the train gradually comes to a stop. There is the faint outline of a platform visible in the darkness seconds before the train comes to a complete stop. How do you rescue passengers stranded on a broken down train a little way past Berney Arms?

RailUK Forums

Goatboy · 11 Dec 2012

You are going to have to give us a bit more context here. What is so special about this location, Google maps shows it as just being single track line?

Dave1987 · 11 Dec 2012

FCC fan said:
It is a dark cold winter Sunday evening. You are one of a handful of people on the 21:36 service from Norwich to Great Yarmouth. Five minutes out from Norwich, the train begins slowing down to a crawl and arrives seven down at Reedham. 6-7 minutes later, the train gradually comes to a stop. There is the faint outline of a platform visible in the darkness seconds before the train comes to a complete stop. How do you rescue passengers stranded on a broken down train a little way past Berney Arms?

Get the MOM down, if there are any other trains in the vacinity that can assist get them to transfer the passengers or push/pull the failed unit to the platform. In an ideal world you do not want passengers on the line especially in the dark due to a whole load of tripping hazards.

transportphoto · 11 Dec 2012

I believe the idea is that this location has no other means of access (no roads, only a river). In the situation near Berney Arms, if detrainment was a necessity, I'd send a crew member to the Public House near the station and request if it was possible to use this as a safe refuge until another train could arrive. The only assistance, realistically, will come by rail. I'm sure policies will exist for the procedure when a train becomes stranded in such remote areas.

Dave1987 said:
Get the MOM down, if there are any other trains in the vacinity that can assist get them to transfer the passengers or push/pull the failed unit to the platform. In an ideal world you do not want passengers on the line especially in the dark due to a whole load of tripping hazards.

In the example given, getting the MOM down wouldn't be easy, (s)he'd have to arrive by rail. If a detrainment was the only choice, the nearest safe refuge would be the PH. Nearest rail assistance is likely to be in Norwich, if there is a unit spare.

TP

class57basher · 11 Dec 2012

Goatboy said:
You are going to have to give us a bit more context here. What is so special about this location, Google maps shows it as just being single track line?

I would assume if this was the case that it was a single line working and most probably a unit that permission would be sought from the signaller to allow another unit to enter the single line section and approach the train and couple up. It may even be that a mobile fitter could attend the site and attempt to fix the train. Unless it was an absolute emergency then the train crew could evacuate the train and escort passengers to what I assuming is being described as a station in the distance and road transport could be arranged for onward travel.

Seems a tad bizarre scenario to ask

Harlesden · 11 Dec 2012

Goatboy said:
You are going to have to give us a bit more context here. What is so special about this location, Google maps shows it as just being single track line?

Berney Arms is a single track station with no lighting and is inaccessible by road

class57basher · 11 Dec 2012

FCC fan said:
Bermey Arms is a single track station with no lighting and is inaccessible by road

based on that it would most like GA would run a 1Z99 to the site and couple up with the unit something off crown point I would assume

merlodlliw · 11 Dec 2012

Is this perhaps the start of a Christmas Ghost Train

michael769 · 11 Dec 2012

It is perfectly possible to bring another train into the same block as a crippled unit with a view to delivering a fitter to it and/or giving it a push.

If the nature of the fault leaves it completely immobilized and beyond timely repair bringing another train minimizes the distance passengers need to be escorted to the "rescue train". Might take a hour (or two) to raise the necessary manpower and equipment needed to manage the situation safely.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In my experience when a train is obviously struggling the driver would use his initiative to declare the set unfit to continue at the earlier station.

When it is reasonably foreseeable that a set is going to fail it is by far preferable to stop it in the relative safety of a station wherever possible.

Dave1987 · 11 Dec 2012

There is no issue with the single line unless it is "one train working" line. Then special dispensation need to be given by the signalling supervisor for another train to enter the ocuppied section. In this instance the assisting driver would pass the signal at danger with authority from the controlling signaller (the signal protecting the train) and proceed at caution up to the assistance protection laid by the driver of the failed train.

Unless this is a "one train working" line

transportphoto · 11 Dec 2012

michael769 said:
In my experience when a train is obviously struggling the driver would use his initiative to declare the set unfit to continue at the earlier station.

When it is reasonably foreseeable that a set is going to fail it is by far preferable to stop it in the relative safety of a station wherever possible.

Exactly, the situation is very un-probable. Especially when a unit in such situation is about to enter such an un-accessible area, the unit should be failed there and then.

TP

Eagle · 11 Dec 2012

FCC fan said:
How do you rescue passengers stranded on a broken down train a little way past Berney Arms?

Put simply. The same way you rescue them if the train breaks down between two stations. There's nothing unusual about the line through Berney Arms in that respect.

Greenback · 11 Dec 2012

Eagle said:
Put simply. The same way you rescue them if the train breaks down between two stations. There's nothing unusual about the line through Berney Arms in that respect.

Indeed. There must be many inaccessible sites across the network.

northernrail · 11 Dec 2012

What about remote places on the West highland line? like the 66 that came off recently and the driver had to be air lifted, if that was a service train, theyd all have to be airlifted....

Im not saying theyd be airlifted near this station by the way....

Dave1987 · 11 Dec 2012

The whole idea is you want to keep the passengers in a controlled environment I.e the train. Even on the west highland line the safest thing to do is get another train to transfer passengers or push/pull the train to a platform. Passengers should only have to be evacuated if there is no train available and even then they should be off the line as soon as possible. The MOM would assess the safest route off the line for the passengers and then a controlled evacuation would take place.

Cliveblackpool · 11 Dec 2012

Wait patienly until another engine / train arrives!!
A friend was stuck for 6 hrs+ on the M6 yesterday because of a bad accident.

Dave1987 · 11 Dec 2012

Yeah it is basically that but as I said the train is a safe controlled environment for the passengers.

Bald Rick · 11 Dec 2012

FCC fan said:
It is a dark cold winter Sunday evening. You are one of a handful of people on the 21:36 service from Norwich to Great Yarmouth. Five minutes out from Norwich, the train begins slowing down to a crawl and arrives seven down at Reedham. 6-7 minutes later, the train gradually comes to a stop. There is the faint outline of a platform visible in the darkness seconds before the train comes to a complete stop. How do you rescue passengers stranded on a broken down train a little way past Berney Arms?

This one's easy, as it's Norfolk.

You just phone a nearby close relative to come and pick you up.

DarloRich · 11 Dec 2012

FCC fan said:
It is a dark cold winter Sunday evening. You are one of a handful of people on the 21:36 service from Norwich to Great Yarmouth. Five minutes out from Norwich, the train begins slowing down to a crawl and arrives seven down at Reedham. 6-7 minutes later, the train gradually comes to a stop. There is the faint outline of a platform visible in the darkness seconds before the train comes to a complete stop. How do you rescue passengers stranded on a broken down train a little way past Berney Arms?

Call up the MOM ( getting to Berney Arms would be fun but not to much of a challenge)
Keep the passengers on the train where they are warm, dry and safe
Keep the passengers informed as to the situation. Offer them free refreshments if facilities exist to do so.
Make sure there are taxis to get the passengers home after their ordeal
Let MOM assess the situation and agree the best way forward. That may be:

Detrian the passengers and walk them back to the station. In this case, due to the rural nature of the station mentioned and the time of day that might be less than favorable.

Fix the train enough to have it limp to Yarmouth

Arrange a rescue locomotive or an assisting unit to run to the site, couple up and move the failed train to Yarmouth.

Easy

It just might take a while!

wintonian · 11 Dec 2012

Greenback said:
Indeed. There must be many inaccessible sites across the network.

...that must be reachable in some form or another for track/ signal maintenance or re-fencing etc.

If all else fails you could get them out by lifeboat.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

DarloRich said:
Call up the MOM ( getting to Berney Arms would be fun but not to much of a challenge)
Keep the passengers on the train where they are warm, dry and safe
Keep the passengers informed as to the situation. Offer them free refreshments if facilities exist to do so.
Make sure there are taxis to get the passengers home after their ordeal
Let MOM assess the situation and agree the best way forward. That may be:

Detrian the passengers and walk them back to the station. In this case, due to the rural nature of the station mentioned and the time of day that might be less than favorable.

Fix the train enough to have it limp to Yarmouth

Arrange a rescue locomotive or an assisting unit to run to the site, couple up and move the failed train to Yarmouth.

Easy It just might take a while!

Well I'm glad this is in Norfolk as passengers down here would probably have decamped and ordered there own ~~taxis~~ ferries long before any of that can to a conclusion.

Greenback · 11 Dec 2012

wintonian said:
...that must be reachable in some form or another for track/ signal maintenance or re-fencing etc.

Well, yes, but is the area around Berney Arms much worse than some other places in this respect?

I have only been there twice!

wintonian · 11 Dec 2012

Greenback said:
Well, yes, but is the area around Berney Arms much worse than some other places in this respect?

I have only been there twice!

I don't know I could think of a good few miles of the Far North Line that would qualify - and no getting a boat in there either.

Harlesden · 11 Dec 2012

I had thought that Berney Arms Station was the only one that was totally inaccessible by road. Apologies if I was wrong.

Dave1987 · 11 Dec 2012

As has already been said in this very unlikely situation the passengers would be keep on the train while the MOM and driver arranged for an assistance train. Unless there was a real urgent need to detrain the passengers because of a fuel spill or something like that the safest place is on the train. I would certainly not be calling for boats or anything like that!

It might be a long wait for assistance but at least the passengers would be safe. And with the new GSMR radios coming in they have an emergency battery on them which will last for 2 hours after the Aux batteries have died so the driver could keep in constant contact with the signaller and control.

O L Leigh · 11 Dec 2012

There is no difference whatsoever between rescuing a failed train at Berney Arms as there is rescuing one anywhere else. You send in an assisting unit, couple-up and, depending on the nature of the fault/failure, drive or drag the duffer away. The setting or context of this question is a massive red herring.

O L Leigh

DarloRich · 11 Dec 2012

DELETE - i quoted the wrong quote! Apologies!

O L Leigh · 11 Dec 2012

Even then...

If there is a need to evacuate you find a safe place for passengers and crew to wait, bail them out down the ladders and wait for transport. In the case of a location where there is no public access, this transport is likely to be another train. So the likelihood is that the traincrew will evac to the Norwich end of the train, as that is the direction from which help is most likely to come.

O L Leigh

OuterDistant · 11 Dec 2012

This one's easy. Thunderbird 2 with Pod 5!

6Gman · 11 Dec 2012

FCC fan said:
I had thought that Berney Arms Station was the only one that was totally inaccessible by road. Apologies if I was wrong.

Is Dyfi/Dovey Junction accessible by road? It certainly wasn't in the past (though there was a lengthy track/ footpath).

Cherry_Picker · 11 Dec 2012

But can you not just drive a vehicle up the cess at a lot of these inaccessable places? The station itself might not be accessible by road but that doesnt mean there isnt a nearby point where P-way staff can access the track in a vehicle.

How would passengers be rescued in this situation?

Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

On Moderation

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

On Moderation

Established Member

Established Member

Emeritus Moderator

Member

On Moderation

Member

On Moderation

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Emeritus Moderator

Established Member

Member

On Moderation

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member