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Station Bins

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Manchester77

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I was at Euston on Saturday and it shocked me that there were no bins or litter receptacles what so ever. I know its due to the fact that if a bomb was placed in one the exploding bin would create shrapnel but surely if they use a plastic clear bin bag as used at some local stations it'd melt from the heat of a bomb detonated within? Or are they too expensive(!)
Idk
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MCW

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I was at Euston on Saturday and it shocked me that there were no bins or litter receptacles what so ever. I know its due to the fact that if a bomb was placed in one the exploding bin would create shrapnel but surely if they use a plastic clear bin bag as used at some local stations it'd melt from the heat of a bomb detonated within? Or are they too expensive(!)
Idk
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depends on the station and company policies I find. Leicester only has two clear plastic recycling bins in the whole place ever since the IRA tried blowing half of leicester up in the 90's. I go to Nuneaton a fair few times and there are bins there but mainly on platforms two and three. all they are is a metal loop attached to the wall with a sprung lid and a plaggy bag which is clear... all you need really.

I have found though, that at stations without bins, there are more regular litter patrols throughout the day, which is a good thing, so its not too bad really. If I am at a bigger station where there are no bins, i find something to place my empty cup or whatever on and pretty much know a litter person will collect it. otherwise, I hang on to my runnish until i find a bin to put it in.
 

tsr

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Given that there is the possibility of fragments being deliberately added to bombs, the whole concept of not having solid bins in order to prevent shrapnel is somewhat flawed - the real point is that they can conceal a bomb. Hence why the clear waste bags on loops are used, as you can spot something unusually bulky or suspicious-looking - in theory. Few people pay much attention to the depths of a bin bag, though, so this can be flawed (hence you may not find even clear plastic bags).

Now, a real reason for not providing fixed bins is what could happen if a bomb was detonated in that location, bearing in mind where the bin is (structural supports, meeting points, you name it). This will all be risk-assessed - you can't have a terrorist work out where to put a bomb so that it will not be noticed until it demolishes the building! This can be a very good reason why you may not find bins at some points in some public places, but you may find a cluster in some insignificant area. Because structural supports are probably quite solid, they can provide a useful backdrop for a CCTV operator to scan against to look for freestanding suspicious items, so it is much better that they are not concealed in bins.

Litter bins on trains are rather safer as they are small and so impossible to stuff much more than a paper or food waste into. Without them, you'd get a lot more mess!

The alternative is to ask the vendor to dispose of your litter, ask politely if you can see a bin behind the desk at an information booth, or just take it with you!

I am not going to go into specific locations where this can be demonstrated, or where this theory of removal can be proved to be flawed.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It started as an Inter-City thing, in BR days.
It shows today in there being no bins on VT stations for example, but plenty on Northern and ATW.
At Warrington (no stranger to IRA bombs) there are no bins at Bank Quay (VT-managed), but there are plenty in the streets where the bomb actually went off.
I can't remember the situation at Central (TPE-managed).
 

whhistle

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It's not about creating shrapnel bombs, it's more about a place to hide them... as if stations don't have enough of those!

However it's time we got rid of this sort of thing and brought bins back. I don't leave litter in the street, nor do I feel comfortable at a station. Plus, if I was a bomber, bin or no bin, I would find a spot to leave it. Under a bench... does that mean we can't have any benches or seats in waiting rooms?
 

sheff1

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The policy on bins at stations makes no sense to me. Sheffield has none 'due to the security situation'. Nearby Doncaster meanwhile has plenty.

Some years ago at Manchester Piccadilly, when asking where I could dispose of my litter, the station staff advised 'leave it on the floor for the cleaners' :o
 

ReverendFozz

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I remember going to Paris in 1995 and finding all the bins on the Metro bolted, I think that was because of the fear of sarin/ricin gas attacks.

Off topic a little bit, there was a gas attack when i was there and I was caught up in it, although luckily for us it was only cs or tear gas

Marxista Fozz
 

PHILIPE

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If a terrorist wants to plant a bin on a station, they will soon find somewhere, bins or no bins. Potential terrorists must be gloating thinking they have got us on the run and frightened of them.
 

Qwerty133

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depends on the station and company policies I find. Leicester only has two clear plastic recycling bins in the whole place ever since the IRA tried blowing half of leicester up in the 90's.

which are used by most people including platform staff as general waste bins...
 

AlexS

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That would be because the recycling is sorted at the waste disposal depot rather than at the station - the reason they are so branded, I believe, is because Metro (the free paper) paid for them and it's a good PR thing to combat the fact their papers end up absolutely everywhere. Everything goes in the same skip to start with and is sorted out later.

It would be nice to have more bins though, hopefully they're something that will re-appear at some point. You can't stop people forcing things through the slots on the clear bins - they are clear to meet security regulations. Despite it clearly saying 'newspaper recycling' on the bins, people constantly attempt to force things in so it seems pointless to stop them, particularly when it makes the place look more tidy.
 

Qwerty133

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That would be because the recycling is sorted at the waste disposal depot rather than at the station - the reason they are so branded, I believe, is because Metro (the free paper) paid for them and it's a good PR thing to combat the fact their papers end up absolutely everywhere. Everything goes in the same skip to start with and is sorted out later.

It would be nice to have more bins though, hopefully they're something that will re-appear at some point. You can't stop people forcing things through the slots on the clear bins - they are clear to meet security regulations. Despite it clearly saying 'newspaper recycling' on the bins, people constantly attempt to force things in so it seems pointless to stop them, particularly when it makes the place look more tidy.

I do agree with that and have been known to put junk in there myself and it is definitely a much more appropriate place for rubbish than where the door closes into on a meridion, preventing the door from closing.
 

Tom B

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A cynic might suggest that "security reasons" is being used as a convenient excuse to save the costs of bins (or the staff to empty them). I have been told by station staff and indeed once by a BTP WPC to "drop your litter on the floor or leave it on a ledge for the cleaner". Sigh.
 

thelem

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I don't buy the security argument at all - it's security theatre only.

Please can someone explain how it's easier to hide a bomb in a bin (of any design) than it is in one of these:

suitcase-blue-carryon.jpg


An abandoned suitcase will easily blend into the background at all but the quietest stations, and it only needs to be left unattended for a few minutes for the terrorist to escape.
 
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The policy on bins at stations makes no sense to me. Sheffield has none 'due to the security situation'. Nearby Doncaster meanwhile has plenty.

Some years ago at Manchester Piccadilly, when asking where I could dispose of my litter, the station staff advised 'leave it on the floor for the cleaners' :o

A few years ago I was told to leave it in the flower beds for the cleaners to collect.
 

DavyCrocket

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More bins are to be introduced on LU stations, they should be checked by LU staff on their security checks and the cleaners should change them when half full/ empty!
 

Mystic Force

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Being old enough to remember the IRA campaigns, the IRA liked hiding bombs before calling in warnings, causing disruption while everything was searched. Bins were removed to reduce the number of hiding places available to terrorist. Their aim was not necessarily destruction but inconvenience. After they removed the bins they moved on to putting bombs on tracks. I remember traveling to Ireland and being amazed by the provision of rubbish bins at Irish stations after being used to British stations. Todays predominant terrorist threat have a different agenda and different intent, and the rubbish bin might not be big enough for what they plan to do.
 

sheff1

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Being old enough to remember the IRA campaigns, the IRA liked hiding bombs before calling in warnings, causing disruption while everything was searched. Bins were removed to reduce the number of hiding places available to terrorist.

That was the reason given at the time, yes, but does not explain why, after the situation changed, bins (or, in most cases, plastic sacks) were reintroduced at some stations but not at similar ones a few miles away.
 

edwin_m

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A cynic might suggest that "security reasons" is being used as a convenient excuse to save the costs of bins (or the staff to empty them). I have been told by station staff and indeed once by a BTP WPC to "drop your litter on the floor or leave it on a ledge for the cleaner". Sigh.

I can't see that being true, or if it is the people concerned are stupid as well as money-grubbing. If the total amount of rubbish remains the same then surely it is cheaper to collect it if some is already in bins than if the whole lot has to be picked up item by item? Unless they are some very expensive (high-security?) bins then their cost will be small compared to the cost of the staff involved in collecting litter.
 

Bungle73

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I was at Euston on Saturday and it shocked me that there were no bins or litter receptacles what so ever. I know its due to the fact that if a bomb was placed in one the exploding bin would create shrapnel but surely if they use a plastic clear bin bag as used at some local stations it'd melt from the heat of a bomb detonated within? Or are they too expensive(!)
Idk
Thoughts?
I'm not sure why you were "shocked". Bins have been absent from pretty much all stations for quite a few years now; since the early '90s. It's only recently that the bag bins have appeared, but still not at the London termini I notice

A cynic might suggest that "security reasons" is being used as a convenient excuse to save the costs of bins (or the staff to empty them). I have been told by station staff and indeed once by a BTP WPC to "drop your litter on the floor or leave it on a ledge for the cleaner". Sigh.
What's the difference between paying people to clear litter off the floor, and paying them to empty bins? Not a lot as far as I can see.

I don't buy the security argument at all - it's security theatre only.

Please can someone explain how it's easier to hide a bomb in a bin (of any design) than it is in one of these:

suitcase-blue-carryon.jpg


An abandoned suitcase will easily blend into the background at all but the quietest stations, and it only needs to be left unattended for a few minutes for the terrorist to escape.
You're joking aren't you? You only have to leave a bag unattended for five minutes before a security alert is called and the place is evacuated. It happens all the time.
 

thelem

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More bins are to be introduced on LU stations, they should be checked by LU staff on their security checks and the cleaners should change them when half full/ empty!

That's pretty common practise when doing rounds emptying bins, the theory being that if it's got more than half full since the last time it was checked and it has the same amount of rubbish put into it before it is next checked then it will be overflowing (there won't be anyone around to change the bag when it is exactly full).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What's the difference between paying people to clear litter off the floor, and paying them to empty bins? Not a lot as far as I can see.

One person can clear a lot more litter by emptying bins than by picking up each individual item.

You're joking aren't you? You only have to leave a bag unattended for five minutes before a security alert is called and the place is evacuated. It happens all the time.

I've never experienced that, although maybe it's more common in London (I've lived in Bristol, Portsmouth & Brighton). Even if it is common, you can get a long way in 5 minutes.
 

AlexS

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If you follow the principle of never going anywhere empty handed, you can quite easily keep rubbish down to a minimum - I always keep my benches etc clear between the cleaner's runs with their barrow. It just requires you to get rid of the attitude regarding cleaning up litter being 'not my job mate, that's dirty'.
 

Starmill

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I don't buy the security argument at all - it's security theatre only.

Please can someone explain how it's easier to hide a bomb in a bin (of any design) than it is in one of these:

suitcase-blue-carryon.jpg


An abandoned suitcase will easily blend into the background at all but the quietest stations, and it only needs to be left unattended for a few minutes for the terrorist to escape.

I concur. If that was a joke... it wasn't very funny given what we are discussing! And if it WASN'T a joke... you've clearly never been on a train or station have you?
 

ReverendFozz

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A cynic might suggest that "security reasons" is being used as a convenient excuse to save the costs of bins (or the staff to empty them). I have been told by station staff and indeed once by a BTP WPC to "drop your litter on the floor or leave it on a ledge for the cleaner". Sigh.

I have heard that from BTP before, a lad got ticked off in Durham or Newcastle for being cheeky to a BTP officer, the talk went something like this, cant remember it word for word

Lad: Is there any bins mate
BTP: No, just drop it on the floor
Lad: Your having a laugh right
BTP: Do I look like a Comedian
Lad: You would not let me drop if we were outside
BTP: Dont get cheeky
Lad: Im not, Im just saying
BTP: Look Son, just drop it on the floor or put it in the bin on the train
Lad: Ok mate, I was only asking

As the kid walked off, turned to his mate and said 'he's touchy' and got another stern ticking off,all because of he wanted to get rid of an empty sandwich carton...

I know some places use a hoop with clear bag, could see through bins not be used, using plexiglass or something, the stuff what is used to shield a bus drivers cab

Marxista Fozz
 

Starmill

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I know some places use a hoop with clear bag, could see through bins not be used, using plexiglass or something, the stuff what is used to shield a bus drivers cab

Marxista Fozz

If I've read that correctly, ATW have that sorted in the Cardiff area, a clear plastic cylinder that goes down to the ground but doesn't have a bottom with a clear plastic bag in it.

Can't find any pics now :(
 

GatwickDepress

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I concur. If that was a joke... it wasn't very funny given what we are discussing! And if it WASN'T a joke... you've clearly never been on a train or station have you?
St Pancras International, Thameslink Platform A. An elderly gentleman boarded his service to Sevenoaks, leaving his rather large case behind, wasn't removed until just before my service to Brighton arrived.

For those who are presuming that First Capital Connect's platform staff were secretly wishing for the station to blow up and end the disturbing contrast of dirty 319s at a dystopian clean platform, I've also seen unattended cases at Haywards Heath and a handbag left in the concourse connecting the Docklands and Southeastern platforms at Woolwich Arsenal.

Both those times staff were notified. Semper Vigilans, that's me. :roll:
 
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