Your railway in 10 years?

By 2020 a fair amount of the XC rail network will have wires on it, although only the Manchester to South Coast route will be able to run as EMU's. However between 2020 and 2023 the following wiring (210 miles) had been put up; the two routes York/Sheffield (about 45 miles) and wire up Derby/Birmingham (about 40 miles) and wire up the routes between Birmingham/Bristol and Cardiff (about 125 miles) and then the following XC services would be run as EMU services:
- (Southampton) Reading to Newcastle (85 miles of wires)
- (Cardiff) Bristol Temple Meads to Manchester Piccadilly (125 miles of wires)
- Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly (CP5 scheme)
- Cardiff Central to Nottingham (165 miles of wires)

That would only leave the following services as DMU's (miles of wires would be in addition to the above):
- (Penzance/Newquay) Plymouth to Edinburgh Waverley (Glasgow Central/Aberdeen) (350 miles of wires to include the extentions, however only 145 miles of wires to be able to run Plymouth to Glasgow Central)
- Guildford to Newcastle (35 miles)
- Paignton to Manchester Piccadilly (100 miles of wires, or 10 miles if the line between Exeter and Plymouth has been done)
- Birmingham to Stansted Airport (125 miles of wires)

There would plans for these routes to be electrified over the next 2 or 3 control periods with options to extend some of the routes over the same timeframe or because of the extra Voyagers that would be avaiable, i.e. extending some of the Newcastle/Reading & Guildford services to Gatwick, with plans for those to be electificated as well.

Wirral, well Mersey rail are getting new stock 2017/18 as the current emus are dying now another five years they will be life expired. Hopefully a focus on lower floors and much improved acceleration with the frequent stops. maybe a few new units the first documents talk of 150-250 vehicles which is really odd, current fleet is 58 3 car trains.

Hopefully Merseyrail will have gained at least one of the following lines; Wrexham-bidston, Eport-helsby, ormskirk-preston, kirby-(either a new terminus at skem or onto wigan.
Voyagers that terminate at Chester have been mused to run on toHooton as a park an ride not beyond the realms of possibility.

eps200 said:

Hopefully Merseyrail will have gained at least one of the following lines; Wrexham-bidston, Eport-helsby, ormskirk-preston, kirby-(either a new terminus at skem or onto wigan.
Voyagers that terminate at Chester have been mused to run on toHooton as a park an ride not beyond the realms of possibility.

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How's Headbolt Lane looking ?

I can't see any reason for MerseyRail to gain Ormskirk-Preston. The only improvement we need on that line is the opening of the Curves.

The Ham said:

...i.e. extending some of the Newcastle/Reading & Guildford services to Gatwick, with plans for those to be electificated as well.

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Parts of the North Downs Line, as well as the bit of the BML between Redhill & Gatwick, are blessed with electricology. You'd have to sort that out... eventually...

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eps200 said:

Wirral, well Mersey rail are getting new stock 2017/18 as the current emus are dying now another five years they will be life expired. Hopefully a focus on lower floors and much improved acceleration with the frequent stops. maybe a few new units the first documents talk of 150-250 vehicles which is really odd, current fleet is 58 3 car trains.

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Not sure why that's odd. Presumably the current fleet of 58 3 car trains would need 174 cars for a like-for-like replacement.

Here on Birmingham's cross-city line, nothing much ever happens at all except for LM's 323s providing a solid service.

By 2023 they will have just been released from overhaul/refurbishment.

I'd hope that somehow BhamNS will have been expanded and somewhere near it freight lines will cross over onto the cross-city line from Bham to Lichfield, thus giving the line something, ANYTHING other than 323s!

In 10 years time the east coast of UK will largely disappear to coastal erosion meaning in the summer months you may travel on a 153/156/158 from Nottingham to Sleaford next the sea and further afield, the isle of Skeg!

Martin_1981 said:

I second that. I see many a Voyager at Exeter St Davids on a NE-SW service which is packed to smitherines with people standing in the carriage vestibules. I once stood from Exeter-Bristol Parkway back in 2008 on a Paignton-Newcastle service, which resembled purgatory.

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I third it! I see packed Voyagers at Truro heading all the way to Dundee! It's a disgrace.

PR1Berske said:

How's Headbolt Lane looking ?

I can't see any reason for MerseyRail to gain Ormskirk-Preston. The only improvement we need on that line is the opening of the Curves.

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Headbolt lane has gone awfully quiet. I guess running through the south curve and onto Southport would be better for the county, having that little deisil island is strange though.

Deerfold said:

Not sure why that's odd. Presumably the current fleet of 58 3 car trains would need 174 cars for a like-for-like replacement.

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It odd in that they are asking for between 50 and 83 and new trains bit of a range. I could see more being needed though the usage is growing.

jmbill said:

Very true.

I was also wondering whether a future TOC might even consider the option of another refurb. of some existing HST sets. In particular, rebuild some of the MK3's to the same spec that Chiltern have got right now. Not sure if these are DDA compliant, but certainly it has been proven that wider powered doors are feasible on the MK3 body shells.

This option might be more desirable for a TOC, rather than running brand new trains to the back corners of Cornwall! Traditionally the 'make do and mend' approach has always prevailed down here!

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Yes, Devon and Cornwall (particularly the latter) rarely get any new stock, always seems to be cascaded stock from up country. I think the rail services in Cornwall in 2023 will be something like:-

Hourly Penzance-Plymouth, consisting of Bi mode IEP to London Paddington and local stopping services on alternating hours using refurbished 2+5 HST's.

Three XC services to and from Edinburgh/Glasgow and Manchester as now. Summer XC services to and from Leeds and Edinburgh/Glasgow as now, possibly Manchester.

Cornish branch lines, using refurbished Class 150/153 and possibly 158:-

Liskeard to Looe- Same as now
Par to Newquay- Hourly service, with new passing loops. Summer services to Paddington, Manchester and Edinburgh as now (Bi mode IEP or extended Voyager stock)
Truro to Falmouth- Same as now
St Erth to St Ives- Same as now

Martin

Transpennine Express services will be running at 6tph in each direction using EMUs similar to 380s. The units will be fully gangwayed and all in 4-car formations. Mostly they'll run singly but there will be a couple of services in each direction in the peaks that will be 8-car between Manchester Victoria and York. They'll still be standing room only though!

The Huddersfield-Manchester stoppers will have just been reintroduced, diverted to Piccadilly. Platforms at Slaithwaite and elsewhere will have been extended to allow 3/4-car EMUs on this service. Fittingly for this neck of the woods, the units used on this service could be anything from a 317 to a 333!

Huddersfield-Dewsbury-Leeds stoppers will also be electric, and will mostly run every 30mins, but with some hour-long gaps between the peaks to allow for freight paths on this crowded corridor. Most services will be extended beyond Leeds to Selby or York. Stock will be mostly 321s with other units occasionally.
A new light maintenance depot built on the site of the old Hillhouse sheds will mean later services back from Leeds each day and will have freed up space for a new through platform and bay at HUD (though renumbering will mean the missing 3 and 7 will be used again- 4 becoming 3; 5 & 6 becoming 4 & 5; the current 8 becomes 6 with the new platforms being 7 (through) and 8 (East-facing bay)) on the site of the current stabling sidings.

Local services to Wakefield; Leeds via Bradford; and Sheffield will be the only remaining diesel services. Each will run hourly, but work will be underway to add a passing loop at either Honley or Lockwood and allow a 30min service on the Penistone line. Wakefield services will have seen a huge increase in usage following the opening of Ossett Parkway near Healey Mills, and as a result all services will be at least 3-car length. Diesel services will be run by refurbished 144s/150s/155s/156s and 158s. Approximately half the 153s will have been reformed into 155s and made compliant with accessibility legislation. The other half will be given special dispensation to run unmodified if only used in service attached to another unit which meets the accessibility requirements.

Hillhouse depot will become the final resting place for a large number of 142s, save for a few that find their way to heritage lines and departmental use. In 2023 a few 142 vehicles can still be seen dumped at the depot in varying states of disrepair.

And finally, Grand Central will have been given a long-term track access agreement and will introduce three Huddersfield-London Kings Cross services each day using 180s. These will join with Bradford services at Wakefield Kirkgate rather than Mirfield to avoid blocking the line at MIR which will no longer be served by GC.

Probably not a lot. Maybe quicker journey times to London?

1tph throughout the day along the Hope Valley Line once more paths available through Dore using newly refurbished pacers.
Direct Service from North West Derbyshire to Derby missing Sheffield.
Buxton to Hope Valley/Sheffield summer service.

eps200 said:

Headbolt lane has gone awfully quiet. I guess running through the south curve and onto Southport would be better for the county, having that little deisil island is strange though.

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A fair few Google searches suggests Headbolt Lane has been, well, bolted through the head, as it were.....

anthony263 said:

By running 2tph to Swansea it will allow the Swansea/Cardiff - London services to run non stop between Newport & Swindon

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That'll p*** a fair few people in and around Bristol off

I know but that seems to be what one of proposaed timetables from teh DFT came up with.

Anyway I am sure FGW already know what you are saying. Hopefully with the reduction in dwell times etc there may be a possibility of stopping the services at Parkway before a non stop run through Swindon to Reading.

FGW used to do that at one time which I think saved about 5 minutes to the journey time.

anthony263 said:

By running 2tph to Swansea it will allow the Swansea/Cardiff - London services to run non stop between Newport & Swindon

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PaulHarding150 said:

That'll p*** a fair few people in and around Bristol off

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Yes of course, having ALL services between London Paddington and South Wales running non-stop through Bristol Parkway would be a bad move. As that would then give no direct service between Bristol Parkway and South Wales anymore, which would be sheer ridiculous and meaning passengers would have to fiddle about changing at Filton Abbey Wood and extended journey times.

However at certain times of the day, for example a peak evening service or two from London Paddington-Swansea could run non-stop between Swindon and Newport and a peak morning service or two in the other direction. Alternatively to cut journey times, some selected peak South Wales services could run non-stop from London Paddington-Bristol Parkway, which would cut journey times but still maintain the Bristol Parkway-South Wales link. I know back in the late 80's and early 90's there was such services, with journey times of just 1 hour 5 minutes.

We'll have to see what happens come 2016 when the GWML electrification is complete and the new trains in operation, or is it 2017 this is expected?

GW electrification wont really be completed til the wires reach Swansea in 2018.

IEP is supposed to start entering services from 2017 with the 1st examples due in the UK in 2015.

As for the high speed services they should be:

Swansea -Neath - Port Talbot - Cardiff - Newport - Parkway - (Non Stop) - Reading - London Paddington.

Cardiff - Newport - (Non Stop) - Swindon - Reading - London Paddington

Bristol TM - Parkway - (Non Stop) - Reading - London Paddington
Bristol TM - (Non Stop) -Swindon - Reading - London Paddington

This calling patterns should reduce Cardiff - London journey times to 1 hour 50 minutes from 2 hours 2 minutes so a saving of 12 minutes while Swansea - London will be 1 hour 45 minutes not 1 hour 42 minutes.

The Bristol - London express will do the journey in 85 minutes with services via Bath taking 95 minutes

anthony263 said:

GW electrification wont really be completed til the wires reach Swansea in 2018.

IEP is supposed to start entering services from 2017 with the 1st examples due in the UK in 2015.

As for the high speed services they should be:

Swansea -Neath - Port Talbot - Cardiff - Newport - Parkway - (Non Stop) - Reading - London Paddington.

Cardiff - Newport - (Non Stop) - Swindon - Reading - London Paddington

Bristol TM - Parkway - (Non Stop) - Reading - London Paddington
Bristol TM - (Non Stop) -Swindon - Reading - London Paddington

This calling patterns should reduce Cardiff - London journey times to 1 hour 50 minutes from 2 hours 2 minutes so a saving of 12 minutes while Swansea - London will be 1 hour 45 minutes not 1 hour 42 minutes.

The Bristol - London express will do the journey in 85 minutes with services via Bath taking 95 minutes

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Well seems OK to me. Though service reduced to 1tph between Bristol, Newport, and Cardiff would be an issue to some. Maybe though with your suggestion that services between Cardiff and Bristol Temple Meads will be increased to 4tph by 2023, one of those services could run via Bristol Parkway.

Only other thing though, is that the above would mean there would then be no direct services between Bristol Parkway and Swindon!

Well something has tp give perhaps that 1 express from Bristol TM could stop at Swindon then have a non stop sprint to Paddington?

That gives Swindon a hourly express to London which does the journey in 50 minutes or less