"plans" for faster trains from Weymouth to London Waterloo

What is particularly a difficult journey is Bournemouth or Poole to Exeter. From Bournemouth to Exeter takes around 3 hours 10 minutes and involves 3 trains with changes at Southampton & Salisbury.

May I suggest that a direct service could operate this route: Bournemouth >
Poole > Wareham > Dorchester (reverse at south junction) > Yeovil Junction
(new chord built once service is shown to be successful via Pen Mill) > Axminster > Exeter Central / St.David's.

Taking current schedules - we have Bournemouth to Dorchester = 40 minutes; Dorchester to Yeovil Pen Mill takes 40 minutes & Yeovil Junction to Exeter Central takes 1 hour. So, we end up with a through journey of about 2 hours 10 minutes thus saving 1 hour on the present trip - using my shorter route.

Roads between Bournemouth/Poole and Exeter are terrible with limited dual highway. I would think that direct connections between the large population in the Bournemouth area with Exeter and hence most of Devon & Cornwall, would attract business and help reduce road traffic.

Envoy said:

What is particularly a difficult journey is Bournemouth or Poole to Exeter. From Bournemouth to Exeter takes around 3 hours 10 minutes and involves 3 trains with changes at Southampton & Salisbury.

May I suggest that a direct service could operate this route: Bournemouth >
Poole > Wareham > Dorchester (reverse at south junction) > Yeovil Junction
(new chord built once service is shown to be successful via Pen Mill) > Axminster > Exeter Central / St.David's.

Taking current schedules - we have Bournemouth to Dorchester = 40 minutes; Dorchester to Yeovil Pen Mill takes 40 minutes & Yeovil Junction to Exeter Central takes 1 hour. So, we end up with a through journey of about 2 hours 10 minutes thus saving 1 hour on the present trip - using my shorter route.

Roads between Bournemouth/Poole and Exeter are terrible with limited dual highway. I would think that direct connections between the large population in the Bournemouth area with Exeter and hence most of Devon & Cornwall, would attract business and help reduce road traffic.

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If the OP proposal comes about, you could well find that due to better line speeds between Weymouth and Yeovil (circa 30 minutes) that it could be that even having to change trains at Dorchester (or even Weymouth) and Yeovil that journey times could be quicker than at present and depending on the change times could be close to two and a half hours (say 40 minutes, 30 minutes, 60 minutes plus change times of 15 minutes and 10 minutes would be 2 hours 35 minutes, a saving of 35 minutes). Although the journey time saving from Poole gets even better (circa a total of 1 hour over the existing) as passengers are not having to travel east to head west again.

Of course if there was a lovely Bournemouth to Exeter train, how would that fit in with the rest of the network? Would it require the duel tracking of the WofE line? If not it would need to couple with a DMU from Salisbury (or allow cross platform change at Yeovil), if so it would need to add about 10 minutes (so our journey time saving is reduced a bit) to allow it to get there in time without holding up the existing Exeter services.

Yes I can see that such a service could be attractive and could form the next step if demand picked up following improvements achieved from the Weymouth - London improvements. However there would still be the questions about how it would fit in with the rest of the network (maybe a Portsmouth to Exeter service extending the existing service between Southampton and Portsmouth).

@The Ham and @Envoy
I agree with both of you. I did a pax survey on the Weymouth to Dorchester stretch some years ago, and found people on Upwey station (repeat Upwey Station!!!) who were booked from Bournemouth to destinations such as Exeter and Barnstaple. The facilities at Upwey are er, basic; i.e. there aren't any. I found one elderly person who was waiting off a Waterloo to Weymouth train, who did not realise she had to cross the bridge to go back up to Castle Cary, where she was to get on a train to Taunton.

This Bournemouth / Poole to Exeter gap is one that has existed since proposals to close it were made in 1845. It is a legacy of the Gauge War and I am afraid it is our little hero with the stove pipe hat who is responsible for this mess too.

Taking your ideas, I have a feeling that most pax would not object to going via Weymouth (reverse) if need be. It would be a more comfortable experience.

Farsight said:

I'm just telling you just how long it takes to cover 41 miles. Even the "fast" trains are slow. And note that it's 136 miles from London to Weymouth.

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I think its 142.6 miles

On the theme of travelling to Paddington the fastest Bmth to Waterloo is around 1hr 50 with five stops and the fastest 'advertised' Bmth to Paddington is 1hr 54 with six stops and a change at Reading.

Long gone are the days, post electrification to Bournemouth in 1967, that the station announcer had the easy task of calling the xx.40 as "this train is for Southampton and London Waterloo only". Time 1hr 40. The split was 70m to Southampton and 30m Southampton to Bournemouth

Given that this timing to Waterloo was available well over forty years ago at 90mph max, you have to assume that, given the constraints of 100mph ( or less ) max running, there is little potential for a return on investment in targeting time critical business from Southampton Central and even less west of there and even less west of Bournemouth and Poole.

The current timetables west of Bournemouth might seem to be fairly leisurely but they are reasonably frequent and convenient both for local and 'towards' London travel.

In 87 or 88 after the line had been electrified west of Bournemouth, (was it operational to Poole well before Weymouth ? ) they wheeled out Conservative Transport Minister John Moore ( now Baron Moore of Lower Marsh ) onto Poole station for an interview with local BBC TV. This was during a Conservative Party conference at Bournemouth.

It was stunningly obvious that he knew little and cared even less about the Bournemouth ( technically Branksome ) to Weymouth electrification project.

Notwithstanding the facts that 'electric' trains had been running for months and that something had had to be done , he officially 'opened' the electric extension and puffed up the Conservative Government's 'investment' in the project.

Leaving party politics aside, the interview was a totally cynical exercise in politicking. Anybody local, with some knowledge, knew electrification had to be done to replace the push/pull 33's and that the project had been done on the cheap.

No-one was more pleased than me when John Moore's ministerial career was terminated in July 1988. ( His wiki entry makes an interesting read and shows the calibre of many former Transport Ministers )

Edwina Currie's summation of John Moore was 'clueless' and this description might also be levelled at current MP Richard Drax or to give him his full name 'Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax'.

Transport infrastructure investment in Dorset is not a priority for any political party.

HowardGWR said:

@The Ham and @Envoy
I agree with both of you. I did a pax survey on the Weymouth to Dorchester stretch some years ago, and found people on Upwey station (repeat Upwey Station!!!) who were booked from Bournemouth to destinations such as Exeter and Barnstaple. The facilities at Upwey are er, basic; i.e. there aren't any. I found one elderly person who was waiting off a Waterloo to Weymouth train, who did not realise she had to cross the bridge to go back up to Castle Cary, where she was to get on a train to Taunton.

Taking your ideas, I have a feeling that most pax would not object to going via Weymouth (reverse) if need be. It would be a more comfortable experience.

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I have just checked for journeys from Wareham to Bath and some tell customers to change at Dorchester & walk between the two stations whilst other timings say change at Upwey. That being so, you would think that a sign would be on Upwey southbound saying 'This Platform for Weymouth only. All other destinations - cross bridge'.

I also note that from Dorchester to Bath via Castle Cary (direct) that the return price is £17.90 (2 hours) yet customers who go from Wareham to Bath via the same route are charged £27.90 return. So, a massive £10 hike in price just to go a few miles from Wareham to Dorchester. Just goes to show that travellers should always check on splitting tickets where they have to change TOC. Wareham to Bath via SOU is £35.30 return (off peak).

A Wareham to Dorchester return is £7.10 Surely, there should be a rule that you can't be charged more for a section of track on a longer journey than what it would be on a shorter trip?

The advantage of this proposal in my mind is just as much in better connections with the South West from the South Coast as with faster connections between Weymouth and London.

If services on the Exeter - Salisbury route could connect with faster trains from Yeovil to Dorchester, there may be potential for much better connections along the South Coast - particularly the Bournemouth and Poole conurbation. There is also scope for a better service between Bristol and stations east of Dorchester. An Exeter - Weymouth service via a reinstated chord at Yeovil Junction would be good.

I understand that there is a new park and ride planned alongside the railway jsut South of the Dorchester bypass. Stick a station in there, and it would be a logical place to change trains rather than trekking across Dorchester between the two stations.

Barclay said:

The advantage of this proposal in my mind is just as much in better connections with the South West from the South Coast as with faster connections between Weymouth and London.

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Wouldn't the direct Weymouth-Exeter service that you suggest below do that rather more effectively than a Weymouth -Salisbury-London service?

Barclay said:

If services on the Exeter - Salisbury route could connect with faster trains from Yeovil to Dorchester, there may be potential for much better connections along the South Coast - particularly the Bournemouth and Poole conurbation. There is also scope for a better service between Bristol and stations east of Dorchester. An Exeter - Weymouth service via a reinstated chord at Yeovil Junction would be good.

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You wouldn't need a new chord for that - just have the train reverse at Yeovil Pen Mill, which presumably would make the service a little more useful for Yeovil residents anyway.
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Envoy said:

I have just checked for journeys from Wareham to Bath and some tell customers to change at Dorchester & walk between the two stations whilst other timings say change at Upwey. That being so, you would think that a sign would be on Upwey southbound saying 'This Platform for Weymouth only. All other destinations - cross bridge'.

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Are people making that change allowed to do at Weymouth (in the same way that, further along the coast, you're allowed to change at Eastbourne when doubling back through Hampden Park)? If not, would there be an advantage in allowing people to do so, in terms of better facilities while waiting for trains?

All good points.Nobody commented on my suggestion of Weymouth to Paddington being the best route, if a fast service was instituted. I meant to explain that, if Waterloo paths are full, joining carriages to a service to Paddington at Castle Cary does not impose an extra path into Paddington. Of course, equally well, joining a service at Yeovil Junction to Waterloo would achieve the same end, but you really need the 'never-built' chord for that . At present, many Exeter to Waterloo services join one from Bristol at Salisbury, or are strengthened there from three to six cars, or from six to 9 cars.

What I find so disappointing, and I hope to respond to the 'SWT' franchise consultation accordingly, is that the split between this franchise and that of Great Western seems to perpetuate the results of the 1845 Gauge War that I mentioned earlier, namely that the services, to which we have referred, were never eventually provided.

HowardGWR said:

All good points.Nobody commented on my suggestion of Weymouth to Paddington being the best route, if a fast service was instituted. I meant to explain that, if Waterloo paths are full, joining carriages to a service to Paddington at Castle Cary does not impose an extra path into Paddington. Of course, equally well, joining a service at Yeovil Junction to Waterloo would achieve the same end, but you really need the 'never-built' chord for that . At present, many Exeter to Waterloo services join one from Bristol at Salisbury, or are strengthened there from three to six cars, or from six to 9 cars.

What I find so disappointing, and I hope to respond to the 'SWT' franchise consultation accordingly, is that the split between this franchise and that of Great Western seems to perpetuate the results of the 1845 Gauge War that I mentioned earlier, namely that the services, to which we have referred, were never eventually provided.

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My only thought was along the lines of would there be enough demand to justify a 5 coach train from Weymouth when the train from Plymouth could well be fairly full if it was only a 5 coach train (unless it was slower - bearing in mind it was stopping at Castle Carry - and following fairly closely to a fast service).

Also having checked the journey times Paddington to Castle Carry (5 stops between) 1 hour 45 and Weymouth to Castle Carry (7 stops between) is 1 hour 5. Even allowing for a few less stops then you are looking at between 2 hour 25 and 2 hour 50 (retaining all the stops). Which isn't much different from the current Weymouth to Waterloo service (2 hours 50). Which would limit the number of people who would switch.

I, suppose, going to Paddington using IEP's and an upgraded Weymouth to Castle Cary route might be an option. Would only need to stop at Dorchester and Yeovil Pen Mill on the way to Castle Cary. The big question, as with the original proposal is would it pay

DynamicSpirit said:

Are people making that change allowed to do at Weymouth (in the same way that, further along the coast, you're allowed to change at Eastbourne when doubling back through Hampden Park)? If not, would there be an advantage in allowing people to do so, in terms of better facilities while waiting for trains?

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While at Uni in Bournemouth, I travelled many times between Bournemouth or Poole to Tiverton with changes either at Dorchester, Upwey or Weymouth (and Castle Cary) and my ticket was never questioned - a couple of times there were ticket checks at Weymouth station (which surprised me I must admit!). Of course, this is anecdotal evidence rather than anything official in the routing guidelines!

(Then, I found out that for a weekend back home, the 3 Days in 7 'Severn & Solent' rover was the most cost effective way to do the journey, plus allowed me to go via Southampton on the couple of times that was necessary!)

DynamicSpirit said:

Are people making that change allowed to do at Weymouth (in the same way that, further along the coast, you're allowed to change at Eastbourne when doubling back through Hampden Park)? If not, would there be an advantage in allowing people to do so, in terms of better facilities while waiting for trains?

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Yes you can. Weymouth, Upwey, Dorchester South and Dorchester West are all part of the Weymouth Group so doubling back, passing through a station in the group more than once etc. is permitted.

TLM

TheLastMinute said:

Yes you can. Weymouth, Upwey, Dorchester South and Dorchester West are all part of the Weymouth Group so doubling back, passing through a station in the group more than once etc. is permitted.

TLM

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Which probably explains why splitting tickets at Dorchester is cheaper than the through tickets talked about up this thread.

The Ham said:

Which probably explains why splitting tickets at Dorchester is cheaper than the through tickets talked about up this thread.

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And that the ticket price for Dorchester - Bath is capped by the Heart of Wessex Day Ranger (@ £19)