Will the Oxford "Airline" Birmingham launch help ease XC overcrowding?

class26 said:

Not just Lufthansa and KLM offering connecting flights but -
Swiss, Air France, Brussels airlines, SAS Scandinavian, Iberia, Czech, Turkish, not to mention Air India (daily) with more to follow shortly so i am told.

Click to expand...

Had completely forgotten them. I'd meant to add etc. at the end, I knew there were more but couldn't recall them!

Connecting the route to Oxford and Oxford itself by use in the same style as the Oxford Tube can only be good news for BHX and good news for travellers from that Nomadic City.

In the same way KLM's new bus connection service to a very international university city - Maastricht - is proving popular already. Much of the traffic in and out of Maastricht and Oxford is not voluntary travel, and so connecting them easier and cheaper to the airport can only be good business sense.

atillathehunn said:

Had completely forgotten them. I'd meant to add etc. at the end, I knew there were more but couldn't recall them!

Connecting the route to Oxford and Oxford itself by use in the same style as the Oxford Tube can only be good news for BHX and good news for travellers from that Nomadic City.

In the same way KLM's new bus connection service to a very international university city - Maastricht - is proving popular already. Much of the traffic in and out of Maastricht and Oxford is not voluntary travel, and so connecting them easier and cheaper to the airport can only be good business sense.

Click to expand...

Yes, it seems that what for many years has been Birmingham airports problem ie being too close to London is now turning to its advantage. Now there really is no need to fly from London at all (unless you live there). Many airlines are at last seeing Birminghams strength and rather than wait for that all too rare slot to appear at Heathrow are opting for Brum. Even now, using the Pendolino from B`ham international you can be in London as quickly as from Heathrow as BHX is far, far quicker to get out of than Heathrow. I live 90 miles from BHX and if i fly to Heathrow in the time from landing to actually being in my car I can be home if I had flown to BHX . That makes a huge difference when having just come off an overnight flight.

class26 said:

Yes, it seems that what for many years has been Birmingham airports problem ie being too close to London is now turning to its advantage. Now there really is no need to fly from London at all (unless you live there). Many airlines are at last seeing Birminghams strength and rather than wait for that all too rare slot to appear at Heathrow are opting for Brum. Even now, using the Pendolino from B`ham international you can be in London as quickly as from Heathrow as BHX is far, far quicker to get out of than Heathrow. I live 90 miles from BHX and if i fly to Heathrow in the time from landing to actually being in my car I can be home if I had flown to BHX . That makes a huge difference when having just come off an overnight flight.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. Regional airports have seen their fortunes change recently. Both Manchester and Birmingham have a very interesting range of options now. With the congestion that you rightly highlight at LHR, BHX and even MAN become very interesting options for those outside the capital. With there no end in sight for the problems at LHR, other airports can cash in. Dublin is expanding rapidly and becoming the new transit hub.

I've done many transfers through DUB both proper connections and self-transfers on Ryanair. Ryanair have twigged this and will now trial proper connections on their services through DUB.

BHX is on the up and up, and the EK A380 is a very clear sign of that.

International students at the beginning and end of term will be travelling with a lot of luggage, not to mention holiday traffic. If they can just sling it in the hold of the bus and unload at the airport and check in, this is going to win over faffing around changing in Paddington.

Doctor Fegg said:

A fair few people round here (West Oxfordshire) use Birmingham airport, so I can believe that there is at least some market.

In Oxford on Tuesday, though, I was a bit surprised to see a bus freshly liveried up for the Airline to Heathrow, Gatwick, and Birmingham: yes, a bus (a double-decker), not a coach. Was this just a fill-in vehicle or will this be the 'traction' for the new service?

Click to expand...

It was advertising the Airline and not actually used on the actual service...

atillathehunn said:

Absolutely. Regional airports have seen their fortunes change recently. Both Manchester and Birmingham have a very interesting range of options now. With the congestion that you rightly highlight at LHR, BHX and even MAN become very interesting options for those outside the capital. With there no end in sight for the problems at LHR, other airports can cash in. Dublin is expanding rapidly and becoming the new transit hub.

I've done many transfers through DUB both proper connections and self-transfers on Ryanair. Ryanair have twigged this and will now trial proper connections on their services through DUB.

BHX is on the up and up, and the EK A380 is a very clear sign of that.

Click to expand...

Very true, I've noticed how BHX now has direct flights to the likes of New York and Dubai (as you've mentioned). We've also got three airlines that now fly 787's on services to the airport (Thomson, Air India and Qatar Airways)

Its a shame the service doesn't also service Birmingham City Centre

class26 said:

Yes, it seems that what for many years has been Birmingham airports problem ie being too close to London is now turning to its advantage. Now there really is no need to fly from London at all (unless you live there). Many airlines are at last seeing Birminghams strength and rather than wait for that all too rare slot to appear at Heathrow are opting for Brum. Even now, using the Pendolino from B`ham international you can be in London as quickly as from Heathrow as BHX is far, far quicker to get out of than Heathrow. I live 90 miles from BHX and if i fly to Heathrow in the time from landing to actually being in my car I can be home if I had flown to BHX . That makes a huge difference when having just come off an overnight flight.

Click to expand...

Let's not get carried away. According the airport's website, BHX has no flights to Asia east of Delhi, only one destination in India, only two destinations in the US, neither west of Florida, no flights to South America, etc, etc. It's a useful regional airport but the lure of direct flights from Heathrow is always going to be stronger.

anme said:

Let's not get carried away. According the airport's website, BHX has no flights to Asia east of Delhi, only one destination in India, only two destinations in the US, neither west of Florida, no flights to South America, etc, etc. It's a useful regional airport but the lure of direct flights from Heathrow is always going to be stronger.

Click to expand...

I don't agree. Birmingham has good connections with the three hubs serving travellers heading to the Far East, China and Australasia: Istanbul, Doha and, expecially, Dubai. Why bother hacking down to Heathrow?

anme said:

Let's not get carried away. According the airport's website, BHX has no flights to Asia east of Delhi, only one destination in India, only two destinations in the US, neither west of Florida, no flights to South America, etc, etc. It's a useful regional airport but the lure of direct flights from Heathrow is always going to be stronger.

Click to expand...

Which is why no one has suggested shutting Heathrow?

This discussion hangs on the premise that regional airports will benefit hugely from the dithering over Heathrow, and empahsising that people do not necessarily need to hack down to Heathrow if they don't want to.

Your argument concerning the preference for direct flights, though, seems fatally flawed considering the demand for the ME3 in particular on their one stop route to the world.

anme said:

Let's not get carried away. According the airport's website, BHX has no flights to Asia east of Delhi, only one destination in India, only two destinations in the US, neither west of Florida, no flights to South America, etc, etc. It's a useful regional airport but the lure of direct flights from Heathrow is always going to be stronger.

Click to expand...

Maybe, but this is just the start. The last 12 months have seen more than 12 airlines begin at BHX and I know there are more , going both east and west waiting in the wings. More people are prepared to transit via an intermediate airport these days. For example last year i flew from BhX to Sydney via Dubai. For me no brainer, I flew home to BHX with colleagues going to Heathrow (all changing at Dubai). I was actually in my house , tucked up in bed BEFORE they had arrived home and they live in London . Changing plane sis no big deal and often leads to lower fares. Another possibility going to N America by the way is Iceland air from BHX. very good fares.

If a new runway is given the go ahead tomorrow at heathrow it will be at least 10 years before it is open, more like 15. Airlines cannot wait that long and it is clear they have concluded that BHX is a good alternative. Over the next 5 years you will see a large influx of long haul carriers

Oh, and by the way there are 2 destinations to India not one. The Delhi flight continues to Amritsar.

Shutting Heathrow is a bit like leaving the EU - it *might* work long term but will be painful and complex to achieve.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Neil Williams said:

Shutting Heathrow is a bit like leaving the EU - it *might* work long term but will be painful and complex to achieve.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Who suggested that shutting Heathrow was a good idea??

London is a major city with plenty of connection traffic to boot. However, we are suggesting that there are alternatives to Heathrow by travelling on the excellent range of routes offered by carriers out of regional airports.

gray1404 said:

Its a shame the service doesn't also service Birmingham City Centre

Click to expand...

Would there be demand for it? National Express already has services which go to and from Birmingham Center so would another company be needed? In addition.
1) Heavy traffic in the city center would be a problem and as a result could heavily delay services.
2) Where would the coach layover for a break would be another one as National Express does not seem to want to share Digbeth Coach Station and Bull Street is not a ideal place due to the traffic and also all Megabus services use that stop so it would be far from ideal. So presumably they would have to find there own place to stop.
Sam

samgeorge965 said:

Would there be demand for it? National Express already has services which go to and from Birmingham Center so would another company be needed? In addition.
1) Heavy traffic in the city center would be a problem and as a result could heavily delay services.
2) Where would the coach layover for a break would be another one as National Express does not seem to want to share Digbeth Coach Station and Bull Street is not a ideal place due to the traffic and also all Megabus services use that stop so it would be far from ideal. So presumably they would have to find there own place to stop.
Sam

Click to expand...

Good points but could it not go to "somewhere in Birmingham" turn straight round and layover at the airport?
Of course it will all depend on loadings and driver's hours.

class26 said:

Maybe, but this is just the start. The last 12 months have seen more than 12 airlines begin at BHX and I know there are more , going both east and west waiting in the wings. More people are prepared to transit via an intermediate airport these days. For example last year i flew from BhX to Sydney via Dubai. For me no brainer, I flew home to BHX with colleagues going to Heathrow (all changing at Dubai). I was actually in my house , tucked up in bed BEFORE they had arrived home and they live in London . Changing plane sis no big deal and often leads to lower fares. Another possibility going to N America by the way is Iceland air from BHX. very good fares.

Click to expand...

I do a lot of long haul travel on business, and changing planes in the Middle East is rarely a good option for me (it does depend what journey you're making, of course). To pick one example, Birmingham to Tokyo with Emirates via Dubai has fastest journey time of 19 hours, with one journey per day. LHR to Tokyo is around 12h, with 5-6 direct flights per day, plus plenty of connections - so much more likely there is a flight at the time you want which also saves time. A journey time of *7 hours* less is really a big difference.
Another example, more favourable to Dubai, is to Sydney - even here, the fastest connection from Birmingham via Dubai is 25h, compared to 22h40 on Qantas from LHR. Again, there are several other options from Heathrow at different times.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a strong supporter of regional airports and I'm not fan of Heathrow. Considering price and convenience, Birmingham will sometimes be the better option for some people. However, I fear even the residents of Birmingham will still be travelling to Heathrow rather often for the foreseeable future.

Heathrow T2 and T5 are in my view the best airport terminals in the UK (4 is horrid, though). Birmingham is pretty rubbish.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Neil Williams said:

Heathrow T2 and T5 are in my view the best airport terminals in the UK (4 is horrid, though). Birmingham is pretty rubbish.

Click to expand...

Indeed, facilities at Heathrow are actually very good. Even T4 is good compared to most UK airports, as recently proven by a visit to Manchester. T3 is my personal favourite - not so much for the terminal itself but because it hosts most non-UK long haul carriers, meaning it has the most interesting flights to the most interesting destinations, and is the start of the most interesting adventures.

To be honest, I find T5 a bit nightmarish. It's like an overcrowded, overpriced, pretentious home counties shopping centre. However, it is reasonably efficient (*); it does have good options for eating and drinking; and there are some quiet places to sit down if you know where to look - even at the A gates.

Nevertheless, I still think Heathrow tends to be a "least bad" option, even if you live in London. It's not the easiest to get to, it's not the most convenient, but for many people, for many journeys, there simply aren't any realistic alternatives.

(*) Except for transfers. T5 is one of the worst places I know for transfers, thanks to its "queue twice" system.

anme said:

I do a lot of long haul travel on business, and changing planes in the Middle East is rarely a good option for me (it does depend what journey you're making, of course). To pick one example, Birmingham to Tokyo with Emirates via Dubai has fastest journey time of 19 hours, with one journey per day. LHR to Tokyo is around 12h, with 5-6 direct flights per day, plus plenty of connections - so much more likely there is a flight at the time you want which also saves time. A journey time of *7 hours* less is really a big difference.
Another example, more favourable to Dubai, is to Sydney - even here, the fastest connection from Birmingham via Dubai is 25h, compared to 22h40 on Qantas from LHR. Again, there are several other options from Heathrow at different times.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a strong supporter of regional airports and I'm not fan of Heathrow. Considering price and convenience, Birmingham will sometimes be the better option for some people. However, I fear even the residents of Birmingham will still be travelling to Heathrow rather often for the foreseeable future.

Click to expand...

Horses for courses. I make a lot of journies to East Africa and SE Asia where transferring or starting my journey in London is just not possible or practical, or at best exactly the same as starting in MAN or BHX. The only advantage of LHR or DUB is easy access to Ethiopian and Addis Ababa, which is a much better transit airport than Nairobi.

Heathrow as an airport isn't particularly horrifying (though connecting T5 to T3 is rubbish), but just needs to realise that people have a far wider range of options than they used to. There will always be some that go down that way, for a multitude of reasons.

However the purpose of this thread was to discuss the viability of the bus link which is offering an alternative to the LHR bound coaches from the Nomadic City of Dreaming Spires. The upshot being that given the rise in the number of airlines operating out of BHX, it's a viable service. There is now a choice. And yes, anme, people like you will still go through LHR. Nobody is stopping you, but for those in Oxford, the midlands and the surrounding area, LHR is now longer a necessity, rather a choice.

And BHX and MAN are exactly what airports should be: a glorified bus shelter, the difference being the buses fly and they generally smell a bit better than regular bus shelters. Except Nairobi. Vive la slightly rundown and knackered old airport, and down with Rolex shops and things I have to distract my girlfriend from before she gets any ideas. It turns out Vive la poverty as well...

atillathehunn said:

The upshot being that given the rise in the number of airlines operating out of BHX, it's a viable service.

Click to expand...

The best anyone can say at this stage is that it might be viable. Which is why Oxford Bus Company aka Go Ahead is giving it a try again. It might work, it might not. Time will tell.

jimm said:

The best anyone can say at this stage is that it might be viable. Which is why Oxford Bus Company aka Go Ahead is giving it a try again. It might work, it might not. Time will tell.

Click to expand...

The world might also implode and I might be voted Miss Tanzania.

Nothing is impossible, just very, very improbable. However, on the balance of probability this service has a greater chance of working than failing.

But we all knew that anyway, so I'm not sure what this contributes?

atillathehunn said:

Horses for courses. I make a lot of journies to East Africa and SE Asia where transferring or starting my journey in London is just not possible or practical, or at best exactly the same as starting in MAN or BHX.

Click to expand...

Now I'm curious - I can't comment on East Africa, but which routes to South East Asia are not possible or practical from Heathrow (which has six flights per day to Singapore, four flights per day to Bangkok, three flights per day to Kuala Lumpur, and many many more) but are from Manchester (six flights per *week* to Singapore via Munich, any others?) or Birmingham (no flights east of Delhi)?

atillathehunn said:

However the purpose of this thread was to discuss the viability of the bus link which is offering an alternative to the LHR bound coaches from the Nomadic City of Dreaming Spires. The upshot being that given the rise in the number of airlines operating out of BHX, it's a viable service. There is now a choice. And yes, anme, people like you will still go through LHR. Nobody is stopping you, but for those in Oxford, the midlands and the surrounding area, LHR is now longer a necessity, rather a choice.

Click to expand...

Indeed. BHX is very well connected by surface transport - even living in much of London, it doesn't take much longer to get to BHX than LHR (although Virgin's GBP85 peak singles are painful).

To get back on topic. I did a bit of Googling and found a timetable for this Oxford - BHX bus service. It claims to take almost 2 hours, departing only every two hours; compared to 90 minutes to Heathrow, leaving every 30 minutes (or better). Is that serious? If I lived in Oxford then all else being equal, I think I would prefer BHX over LHR. However, given these frequencies and the range of flights available, it seems all is very much not equal.

(Of course, there is the train from Oxford to BHX, going once per hour and taking one hour. This might well make BHX the winner for those occasions when a good direct flight is available at the right time on the right day).

anme said:

Now I'm curious - I can't comment on East Africa, but which routes to South East Asia are not possible or practical from Heathrow (which has six flights per day to Singapore, four flights per day to Bangkok, three flights per day to Kuala Lumpur, and many many more) but are from Manchester (six flights per *week* to Singapore via Munich, any others?) or Birmingham (no flights east of Delhi)?

Because all the options to PNH are rubbish. I would go through London if it offered an advantage. It doesn't. I have to stop over between 1 and 2 times. I can go through BKK on a number of carriers which is a bit hell-ish. I can go through HKG and gives me a day to stop in and see friends which is very pleasant though the MAN-HKG flight is a killer. I can go through Doha and SGN, which is easy, but the 787-8 is a killer. My comment on SE Asia should have been addressed as equally naff as from MAN. The comment for LHR about East Africa stands. BA removed their EBB flight, and their NBO flight is it a bad time to land in NBO. I can travel on the ME3 or ET (okay, via DUB or FRA) from MAN and have a much, much easier journey.

Indeed. BHX is very well connected - even living in much of London, it doesn't take much longer to get to BHX than LHR (although Virgin's GBP85 peak singles are painful).

Yes, they are a killer. But you don't have to pay that, there are other options available.

To get back on topic. I did a bit of Googling and found a timetable for this Oxford - BHX bus service. It claims to take almost 2 hours, departing only every two hours; compared to 90 minutes to Heathrow, leaving every 30 minutes (or better). Is that serious? If I lived in Oxford then all else being equal, I think I would prefer BHX over LHR. However, given these frequencies and the range of flights available, it seems all is very much not equal.

(Of course, there is the train from Oxford to BHX, going once per hour and taking one hour. This might well make BHX the winner for those occasions when a good direct flight is available at the right time on the right day).

Click to expand...

Doesn't take into account door-to-door times. The queues at LHR could easily pad out that 30 minutes, not to mention the traffic around London.

atillathehunn said:

Because all the options to PNH are rubbish. I would go through London if it offered an advantage. It doesn't. I have to stop over between 1 and 2 times. I can go through BKK on a number of carriers which is a bit hell-ish. I can go through HKG and gives me a day to stop in and see friends which is very pleasant though the MAN-HKG flight is a killer. I can go through Doha and SGN, which is easy, but the 787-8 is a killer. My comment on SE Asia should have been addressed as equally naff as from MAN. The comment for LHR about East Africa stands. BA removed their EBB flight, and their NBO flight is it a bad time to land in NBO. I can travel on the ME3 or ET (okay, via DUB or FRA) from MAN and have a much, much easier journey.

Click to expand...

I think you mean that flying to PNH (Phnom Penh) is rubbish. South East Asia is generally well connected from Heathrow, with many direct flights often multiple times per day. BTW, you can fly directly from Heathrow to SGN (Ho Chi Minh) three times per week - no need to go via Doha. Otherwise, flying via Singapore looks like a good option - 5-6 flights per day from Heathrow or one from Manchester, and 4 per day from SIN to PNH.

To be honest, flying long haul is a killer however you do it. A fair amount of discomfort can't really be avoided. That's why I tend to go for the quickest option at the most convenient time, which for me is usually Heathrow both for the direct flights and the choice of times. As I said, I'm not great fan of the place but it's a "least worst" option in a lot of cases.

You can fly via FRA or DUB or wherever you like departing from London, with shorter average connecting times because the flights are more frequent. Of course, if you live closer to BHX or MAN etc and there are connections at a convenient time, that's a better option for you than Heathrow.

atillathehunn said:

Yes, they are a killer. But you don't have to pay that, there are other options available.

Click to expand...

True (there are other options between London and BHX), but they are slower and less frequent which makes BHX less competitive.

atillathehunn said:

Doesn't take into account door-to-door times. The queues at LHR could easily pad out that 30 minutes, not to mention the traffic around London.

Click to expand...

Heathrow's queues are a bit mythical - meaning they don't necessarily exist in reality, or at least no more than at other airports. My recent experience at MAN was much worse than anything I've seen at LHR for years (transfers excluded). British Airways advertise a 45 minute check in at T5 (http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...formation/london-heathrow-airport/heathrow-t5) and I can confirm that's easily possible if not really recommended.

You're right about traffic delays, but they affect Birmingham too. Even if we allow 2h for the advertised 90 minute journey (Google Maps makes it 1h05 right now, or 57 minutes without traffic - so that's being VERY cautious) the journey times from Oxford are the same, and the 20-30 minute bus frequency to LHR is hugely more convenient that a 2h frequency to BHX.

Personally, if I was going between Oxford and BHX, I think I would use the train unless there happened to be a coach at exactly the right time, and I wasn't in a hurry or travelling on business. That's why I'm a bit sceptical about this new bus service, regardless of the merits of BHX - the journey time is very long and the frequency is quite poor. Still, good luck to it.

Given the long journey time, I wonder if end to end isn't the principal target market.

radamfi said:

Given the long journey time, I wonder if end to end isn't the principal target market.

Click to expand...

Very good point. It's more a Oxford <-> Warwick University <-> Birmingham NEC + airport service.

radamfi said:

Given the long journey time, I wonder if end to end isn't the principal target market.

Click to expand...

There is no other direct service from Birmingham Int to the University of Warwick for students and academics), and no other easy route from Oxford to Warwick Castle (for tourists)

atillathehunn said:

The world might also implode and I might be voted Miss Tanzania.

Nothing is impossible, just very, very improbable. However, on the balance of probability this service has a greater chance of working than failing.

But we all knew that anyway, so I'm not sure what this contributes?

Click to expand...

Do we all know it has a greater chance of working than failing? I can't say I do.

And I feel perfectly justified in questioning your bald assertion that the service is viable.

Until it has been running for a while, Go Ahead will not know whether it is viable - and if they don't like what the numbers are telling them, they can pull the plug by simply giving a few weeks' notice to the Traffic Commissioner, without any great financial pain.

The improved services at BHX do indeed make it a more attractive UK entry and exit point, but there is no guarantee people will choose to use it, or this coach link either.

Neil Williams said:

Heathrow T2 and T5 are in my view the best airport terminals in the UK (4 is horrid, though). Birmingham is pretty rubbish.

Click to expand...

I find that Birmingham does the basics right, it's clean, not too overcrowded, has sufficient seating, nice views from the piers, great transport links, friendly staff, and a decent range of eateries and shops. It doesn't make you walk through an entire winding shopping mall like Stansted, nor is it a crowded sweatbox like Manchester T3, or a complete hellhole like Luton.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

OwlMan said:

There is no other direct service from Birmingham Int to the University of Warwick for students and academics), and no other easy route from Oxford to Warwick Castle (for tourists)

Click to expand...

Very true, but then again a lot of the lack of local bus links is due to the speed of the rail services. University of Warwick can be accessed from Coventry Station, and that's likely to be quicker than any direct bus. Not saying it won't pick up traffic heading that way though.

I think the Airline coach will pick up a lot of NEC/Genting Arena traffic, I've come across lots of that clientele using NX from the airport.

A0wen said:

It does, however, offer a few things the train doesn't:

- it's running at times which are convenient for early flights. The first train direct train from Oxford to Bham Airport doesn't get you there until after 07.30. No good if you're on an early flight whereas by then the coach will have had 3 services arrive at the airport.

Secondly it will deliver you right to the terminal door, which the train doesn't.

Thirdly it has a few stops away from the main stations saving a journey into the centre.

Click to expand...

Fourthly you'll get a seat.

WestCoast said:

University of Warwick can be accessed from Coventry Station, and that's likely to be quicker than any direct bus.

Click to expand...

The University's a good 20 minute bus ride away from Coventry station. I'd say a direct bus from the airport would be competitive.