Tramlink Route Numbers

Can any one help on this? I have trawled the t'internet to try to found out how many route numbers there are but came up blank. Today I saw at least 24 diagrams start with route number 11 going through to 57. Any ideas? Many thanks.
Btw the Gen was (all today's sightings between 13.40 & 15.00.
Turn 11 2553
12 2546
13 2562
21 2563
22 2558
23 2561
24 2533
25 2538
26 2559
31 2532
32 2534
33 2530
34 2531
35 2542
36 2543
37 2536
38 2550
43 2549
44 2541
51 2544
52 2560
53 2551
54 2540
57 2556.

There's only four route numbers - I think you've noted down the cards in the windscreen, which would be the duty diagrams.

If I remember them correctly, the current set up is:

Route 1: Elmer's End - town centre loop - Elmer's End.

Route 2: Beckenham Jct - town centre loop - Beckenham Jct.

Route 3: Wimbledon to New Addington.

Route 4: Wimbledon to Elmer's End.

...but I couldn't say how many diagrams there are on each route.

Peter Mugridge said:

There's only four route numbers - I think you've noted down the cards in the windscreen, which would be the duty diagrams.

If I remember them correctly, the current set up is:

Route 1: Elmer's End - town centre loop - Elmer's End.

Route 2: Beckenham Jct - town centre loop - Beckenham Jct.

Route 3: Wimbledon to New Addington.

Route 4: Wimbledon to Elmer's End.

...but I couldn't say how many diagrams there are on each route.

Click to expand...

I think that whilst 1 & 2 are separate passenger routes, for some reason I think that they interwork. Their duty would be more akin to:

Elmer's End - town centre loop - Beckenham Jct - town centre loop - Elmer's End

So trams on that route would share a block of duty numbers.

Yes it was the cards in the window. They must equate to something otherwise why have them? Be very interested to find out.


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HA25322 said:

Yes it was the cards in the window. They must equate to something otherwise why have them? Be very interested to find out.

Click to expand...

Errr... top line in my post....

Peter Mugridge said:

Errr... top line in my post....

Click to expand...

Sorry. What I mean is that yes they are the duty numbers but how many are there and which belong to which route. If you do the Tyne & Wear for example they have dot matrix displays of route numbers so you know what's on what.
It would also makes it easier to know how many trams are due to be out so you don't have to hang around when you have see each duty turn.

Post removed after reflection

HA25322 said:

Sorry. What I mean is that yes they are the duty numbers but how many are there and which belong to which route. If you do the Tyne & Wear for example they have dot matrix displays of route numbers so you know what's on what.
It would also makes it easier to know how many trams are due to be out so you don't have to hang around when you have see each duty turn.

Click to expand...

Off the top of my head (so it's old now, no idea how it compares to current operations) numbers 10 through 20-something (looking at photos, most likely 26) are for routes 1 & 2, numbers 30 through 40-something (44 seems familiar) are for route 3, and then 50+ is for route 4.

Domh245 said:

I think that whilst 1 & 2 are separate passenger routes, for some reason I think that they interwork. Their duty would be more akin to:

Elmer's End - town centre loop - Beckenham Jct - town centre loop - Elmer's End

So trams on that route would share a block of duty numbers.

Click to expand...

That used to be the case, but routes 1 & 2 now operate on different headways, so that won't work. Elmers End now has 4 per hour out & back on route 1, plus 4 number 4s to Wimbledon. Beckenham Junction gets a tram every 10 minutes. The timetables published on London Bus Routes indicate that trams are kept on the 1 or 2 all day every day.

I think there's some confusion in terminology here.

'Route number' is usually considered to be the thing the public see (as in route 11 bus to Victoria) in which case the route numbers for Tramlink are 1 to 4.

That having been said, in London County Council / London Transport Tramways days, this was known as the 'service' number.

Vehicles in service will have some sort of number by which that vehicle's diagram / schedule is known. These aren't often visible to the public - most London buses have a 'running number' (e.g. SW 301 is the running number of a bus running from Stockwell Garage on route 11), London Underground trains have a train number that's visible on the front. (That being the working that particular train unit is allocated to that day) Traditionally, London tram staff did call this the 'route number'

and from memory, I think Blackpool and a few other northern corporations followed the same service / route number convention that London's trams did as well.

Then each crew or driver will also have their own duty number - in most cases, this will also not be visible to the public, and there are usually more driver duties than vehicles, and a driver will usually work 2 or more vehicles in the course of a day's shift.

I think what's on display on Croydon trams is probably the vehicle's working number but it could be the driver's duty number.

London Underground working timetables are now considered public domain (here) - the train number and in some cases the driver duty number can be seen in them.

Tramlink working timetables are not considered public domain (correspondence here)

The same arguments (private sector contractors) for not releasing Tramlink info could equally be applied to London Buses, but TfL have made the decision to release these - here.

Route 1 (Elmers End - Croydon loop) uses three trams with running numbers 11-13
Route 2 (Beckenham Junction - Croydon loop) uses six trams with running numbers 21-26
Route 3 (Wimbledon - Addington) uses 14 trams with running numbers 31-44
Route 4 (Wimbledon - Elmers End) uses 7 trams with running numbers 51-57

i.e. a total of 30 trams in service Monday to Saturday daytime.

Interestingly you were missing four consecutive runnings on route 3 and two on route 4 yet in the time period you were there, everything should have appeared as even route 4 with the long layover in Wimbledon (around 13 minutes) should reappear at East Croydon in about an hour and 15 minutes. Trams on all other routes should repeat after about an hour maximum. I wonder if there was a problem at the Wimbeledon end of the line?

Thank you Keith for the Gen. Probably the reason I missed the was because I was at George Street for a while due to what appeared to be points issues as the driver had to manually operate them to head to Wimbledon. There was then a build up of 4 or 5 trams and therefore I missed a few from the Wimbledon direction.


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