Reserving Coach K on a Pendolino - Virgin Trains West Coast / VTWC

All Line Rover · 6 Jan 2017

I noticed a short while ago, on a weekend, that the 'pictograms' on the Euston departure boards (since extended to VTEC stations) depicted Coach K (the rear coach, with a miniature amount of first class seats) as being fully reserved on one 11 car Pendolino. First class was otherwise entirely unreserved, with the exception of a handful of reservations in Coach H.

Coach K is not specifically reservable and is normally depicted as entirely unreserved on the Euston pictograms (though in truth this is not entirely accurate as around half of the seats in Coach K are reserved by default on busy services, with passengers allocated a seat in Coach K being unable to modify their reservation unless they select a seat in Coach J or Coach H).

Thus, is it possible to reserve Coach K for a private party? If it is, is this restricted to weekends when there is only one member of catering crew who does not need regular access to the kitchen in Coach K, but can instead sit with the trolley in the adjacent coach (J) and need only visit the kitchen for hot water?

I am intrigued because, with only 18 seats, reserving Coach K seems to be an economical way for small parties to travel in a private carriage.

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jamie_ · 6 Jan 2017

Yes, you can book a whole coach - https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/redcarpet

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Bletchleyite · 6 Jan 2017

All Line Rover said:
Coach K is not specifically reservable and is normally depicted as entirely unreserved on the Euston pictograms (though in truth this is not entirely accurate as around half of the seats in Coach K are reserved by default on busy services, with passengers allocated a seat in Coach K being unable to modify their reservation unless they select a seat in Coach J or Coach H).

Which itself is annoying as it means you can't reserve the single seats. I hope whoever next refurbs them provides some single seats in another coach.

dk1 · 6 Jan 2017

The Traincrew won't be happy with that. I was under the impression that Coach K is staff accomodation :razz:

route101 · 6 Jan 2017

Neil Williams said:
Which itself is annoying as it means you can't reserve the single seats. I hope whoever next refurbs them provides some single seats in another coach.

I was on a First Advance a few years ago and was my reserved seat was in that coach , one of the single seats though was facing backwards . In first i prefer sitting in these single seats especially when dining .

ainsworth74 · 6 Jan 2017

Well, perhaps it's just a coincidence, but I note that on the enquiry form for a booking a private coach the first option for group size goes up to 18 adults which is coincidentally the maximum seating capacity of coach K...

Bletchleyite · 6 Jan 2017

dk1 said:
The Traincrew won't be happy with that. I was under the impression that Coach K is staff accomodation :razz:

The traincrew get seriously hacked off if you choose to sit in those single seats. Which needs to change - they are *not* staff accommodation, and First Class ticketholders who have paid a very large sum of money for their ticket should not be disrespected by being told they cannot sit in their choice of unreserved First Class accommodation.

dk1 · 6 Jan 2017

Neil Williams said:
The traincrew get seriously hacked off if you choose to sit in those single seats. Which needs to change - they are *not* staff accommodation, and First Class ticketholders who have paid a very large sum of money for their ticket should not be disrespected by being told they cannot sit in their choice of unreserved First Class accommodation.

I know but you see their point if other 1st class coaches are quiet. I wouldn't choose to sit in K unless it was busy elsewhere.

All Line Rover · 6 Jan 2017

ainsworth74 said:
Well, perhaps it's just a coincidence, but I note that on the enquiry form for a booking a private coach the first option for group size goes up to 18 adults which is coincidentally the maximum seating capacity of coach K...

I also note that the upper limit of the second category is 37 (the capacity of coach J), with the upper limit of the third category being 55 (the combined capacity of coaches K and J).

I'm not sure how it would be possible to reserve Coach J without also reserving Coach K.

The minimum price seems a little steep: "Prices start from £899 one way from London to Birmingham". At weekends there are many London to Birmingham First Advance fares at £26 (£468 for 18 seats with no Railcards) on trains which are lightly loaded in first class with no more than a handful of passengers (if any) in Coach K. £499 would be more realistic for guaranteeing the use of the whole of Coach K on a quiet service, which would not have any detrimental impact on other passengers.
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dk1 said:
I know but you see their point if other 1st class coaches are quiet. I wouldn't choose to sit in K unless it was busy elsewhere.

I didn't see the point when the sole member of catering crew on a very busy 9 car Pendolino on a weekend wanted exclusive use of the rear six seats.

Bletchleyite · 6 Jan 2017

dk1 said:
I know but you see their point if other 1st class coaches are quiet. I wouldn't choose to sit in K unless it was busy elsewhere.

I would, as I like single seats - the rearmost seat in coach K is my preference in 1st[1], and too often it contains an on-duty member of staff who won't move. Were there some of these in other coaches, I wouldn't mind - but the staff like monopolising them for their purposes (e.g. by not putting place settings at them), and it's simply not on.

[1] In Standard the corresponding far-end priority seat is also my preference

MKB · 6 Jan 2017

I too find it a pain not being able to reserve coach K. If the direction of travel makes that the rear coach, then it's the only one having two adjacent forward-facing airline-style seats in first class. So I have to reserve two rear-facing ones in coach J, then bag the ones in coach K if they're still free. Don't see how this system suits anyone.

47271 · 6 Jan 2017

It's funny, but K is the very last place I'd choose to sit in First Class a Pendolino. Regardless of inappropriate crew use of seats, you've still got the clattering and yakking from the kitchen. I've also got the impression that the tilt is a bit rougher when it's the leading coach, but that's maybe just my imagination.

If it's an 11 car I can't see why you would want to go anywhere other than the middle - away from the bogies - of G. Nice and smooth, no reservations and nine times out of ten you'll get a table of four to yourself however busy the rest of the train is. I went all the way from Euston to Glasgow once spread out like that and on the PA the guard was apologising for how overcrowded the service was.

In a 9 car its not quite so simple but never mind my reservation I'd still hunt around for something else in preference to K.

Jimini · 6 Jan 2017

A lot of London football teams use this when playing in the north-west (and vice versa too, I'd imagine). Quite often on a Saturday evening you'll find West Ham / Fulham / Arsenal / Chelsea etc's team in the cordoned off coach, complete with security guards. It also affords them direct access to coaches waiting for them to complete their journey when they reach Euston. I'm assuming some sort of special arrangement is put in place to ensure the train ends up at a platform at Euston with road access (not sure of the platform numbers but the platforms at the extremities of either side of the station have this, I believe). I've seen it many a time.

Mag_seven · 6 Jan 2017

Jimini said:
A lot of London football teams use this when playing in the north-west (and vice versa too, I'd imagine). Quite often on a Saturday evening you'll find West Ham / Fulham / Arsenal / Chelsea etc's team in the cordoned off coach, complete with security guards. It also affords them direct access to coaches waiting for them to complete their journey when they reach Euston. I'm assuming some sort of special arrangement is put in place to ensure the train ends up at a platform at Euston with road access (not sure of the platform numbers but the platforms at the extremities of either side of the station have this, I believe). I've seen it many a time.

Could this train tomorrow night (Saturday) be carrying the Arsenal team back to London?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U64286/2017/01/07/advanced

Jimini · 6 Jan 2017

Mag_seven said:
Could this train tomorrow night (Saturday) be carrying the Arsenal team back to London?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U64286/2017/01/07/advanced

Well I suppose when you're Arsenal you can afford to hire out the entire train!

Certainly looks that way!

Edit: I wonder if there's a similar one taking Manchester City back to the north-west tonight...?

Bletchleyite · 6 Jan 2017

The tilt is rougher in the end coach as it has nothing to predict off, but Ive got used to it.

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grumblingalong · 6 Jan 2017

Neil Williams said:
The traincrew get seriously hacked off if you choose to sit in those single seats. Which needs to change - they are *not* staff accommodation, and First Class ticketholders who have paid a very large sum of money for their ticket should not be disrespected by being told they cannot sit in their choice of unreserved First Class accommodation.

While I see your point don't forget the TMs at least are rostered to have their break on the train, I can see why the crew get annoyed. It annoys me at my London terminus when people board, ahead of the announcement of the platform sometimes and try and turf us out of our seatwhile we grab a quick coffee, with the rest of 1st being empty. A tangent, but a relevant one I hope.

All Line Rover · 7 Jan 2017

grumblingalong said:
While I see your point don't forget the TMs at least are rostered to have their break on the train, I can see why the crew get annoyed. It annoys me at my London terminus when people board, ahead of the announcement of the platform sometimes and try and turf us out of our seatwhile we grab a quick coffee, with the rest of 1st being empty. A tangent, but a relevant one I hope.

I see your point. It is a very legitimate one. However I do feel that the catering crew should, like VTWC's guards, have dedicated seats that are unavailable to the public and are not counted towards a train's seating capacity. Is it really the expectation of senior management that all four crew members on a London to Manchester evening meal service are not "supposed" to sit down during the course of the journey (other than in turns in what I understand to be a single fold-down seat in the kitchen)?

Qwerty133 · 7 Jan 2017

All Line Rover said:
I see your point. It is a very legitimate one. However I do feel that the catering crew should, like VTWC's guards, have dedicated seats that are unavailable to the public and are not counted towards a train's seating capacity. Is it really the expectation of senior management that all four crew members on a London to Manchester evening meal service are not "supposed" to sit down during the course of the journey (other than in turns in what I understand to be a single fold-down seat in the kitchen)?

Many catering staff in other businesses certainly aren't allowed to sit down during their shift so its hardly an unreasonable expectation.

bengolding · 7 Jan 2017

I prefer to sit in coach K as on peak services i get my preferred meal choice plus quickest exit on arrival at Euston. K is the unreserved coach in 1st, although 2 seats (7 & 8) are reservable. Makes sense as on 9 car sets, H & J are reservable so Virgin need to have a proportion of unreserved 1st seating to cater for those traveling on on flexible 1st tickets.

I agree that in cases some crews go out of their way to discourage passengers from sitting in K. A few weeks ago I boarded a nonstop Crewe to Euston off peak service in K as normal. A FC Host encouraged me to sit elsewhere as it was too cold in the carriage. I remained, having the exclusivity of an acceptably warm coach whilst staff at the end near the galley engaged in loud banter. I do find many crews go out of their way to discourage passengers from sitting in the 2 row of 3 seats closest to the galley by placing their bags etc on seats, not good on busy peak services.

I've used the Red Carpet service before for a small party traveling to Birmingham International on a peak service. Very impressed with the service received.

Traveling back to Euston yesterday, I did overhear staff in K advising that the Crystal Palace team would be traveling on the 1520 to Manchester, as Virgin wanted more staff to help out on board. Turns out this departed from platform 3, implying they probably accessed the station from the side entrance. From experience, Premier League teams tend to block book an entire coach in 1st so I do hope this was a 11 car!

grumblingalong · 7 Jan 2017

All Line Rover said:
I see your point. It is a very legitimate one. However I do feel that the catering crew should, like VTWC's guards, have dedicated seats that are unavailable to the public and are not counted towards a train's seating capacity. Is it really the expectation of senior management that all four crew members on a London to Manchester evening meal service are not "supposed" to sit down during the course of the journey (other than in turns in what I understand to be a single fold-down seat in the kitchen)?

The "Pretendolino" when it was with us had two such seats in the the RFB, which would seem to be the easy solution to the problem. But then as you say, why would Virgin provide seats if the catering crews are on contracts that perhaps don't allow for a break, or indeed if they are, perhaps those few seats should be exclusive once more.

jaigee · 7 Jan 2017

I once was asked to move from the single seat next to the kitchen door in K on the excuse that it was prohibited due to hot water having to be carried past!

Five minutes later one of the catering staff was sitting in it!

All Line Rover · 7 Jan 2017

bengolding said:
I've used the Red Carpet service before for a small party traveling to Birmingham International on a peak service. Very impressed with the service received.

What was the price differential compared to an off-peak service?

Bletchleyite · 7 Jan 2017

grumblingalong said:
While I see your point don't forget the TMs at least are rostered to have their break on the train, I can see why the crew get annoyed. It annoys me at my London terminus when people board, ahead of the announcement of the platform sometimes and try and turf us out of our seatwhile we grab a quick coffee, with the rest of 1st being empty. A tangent, but a relevant one I hope.

I don't mind them sitting down for breaks, but they should select a seat that has plenty of equivalents, such as a bay of 4, not the in-demand single seats.

Similarly I find traincrew monopolising the Standard 2+table and the back priority seats in coach A annoying. They should select unpopular seats like airline rows with no windows.

All good customer service.

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boxy321 · 7 Jan 2017

I discovered very early on that the the end of K is the staff room. It's where they rest and have a chat and I don't mind at all.

Remember, if it's a short journey, it's the first place the booze gets served!

I thought most season ticket holders understand what coach K is all about as non-regular travellers don't bother walking to the platform ends. I regularly get K to myself during evenings to Cov.

Clip · 7 Jan 2017

Jimini said:
Well I suppose when you're Arsenal you can afford to hire out the entire train! Certainly looks that way!

Edit: I wonder if there's a similar one taking Manchester City back to the north-east tonight...?

I hope not as Manchester is in the north west.

Apologies if this has been pointed out :lol:

AlterEgo · 7 Jan 2017

dk1 said:
I know but you see their point if other 1st class coaches are quiet. I wouldn't choose to sit in K unless it was busy elsewhere.

I would. I prefer single seats.

I do avoid K though principally because it's usually full of staff and their chatter.

iknowyeah · 7 Jan 2017

Jimini said:
Well I suppose when you're Arsenal you can afford to hire out the entire train! Certainly looks that way!

Edit: I wonder if there's a similar one taking Manchester City back to the north-east tonight...?

North West

I saw them boarding the train down from Piccadilly yesterday morning, think it was the 09:15. No Gabriel Jesus amongst them however

Cletus · 7 Jan 2017

Not just London teams who reserve coaches on Virgin to the North West. Dover Athletic do it regularly.

iknowyeah · 7 Jan 2017

Cletus said:
Not just London teams who reserve coaches on Virgin to the North West. Dover Athletic do it regularly.

And North Ferriby can barely scrape together enough for a coach. No justice eh

Reserving Coach K on a Pendolino - Virgin Trains West Coast / VTWC

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