Class 158 air conditioning

gareth950 · 26 May 2017

So, another period of hot weather, and yet again passengers complaining of cooking on class 158s due to faulty air con. I myself was one of those passengers on Wednesday. When a green GWR 158 pulled in to the platform at Bristol TM I expected that as it's obviously just come back from an extensive refresh/refurb that the time would've been taken to fix the air con whilst it was away. But no.

So, as the 158s will be around long past 2020, surely as they are refreshed or refurbished to meet 2020 standards the air con can finally be fixed at the same time?

With sophisticated climate controlled environments in modern cars now, passengers will expect similar conditions on long - medium distance train journeys. It's unacceptable in 2017 for passengers to be baking on 158s for medium distance journeys in hot weather!

I know the air con units of 158s were designed for use with CFCs which immediately made them redundant when they came into use, but that was 25 years ago! Do their sister 159s have the same air con problems?

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mugam4 · 26 May 2017

It's gotten to the point now that on hot days I use GWR on the shortest leg possible into aircon land, and immediately change. All guards will say is that "it's been faulted", but considering the problem has been ongoing over a number of years this doesn't seem to have any result

broadgage · 26 May 2017

Not been on 159s much recently, but when I did use them the air conditioning seldom worked in hot weather.
SWT seemed to largely give up on the air conditioning on the 159s and instead fitted a few more very small, partially opening windows. Certainly better than nothing, but not really enough.

Bletchleyite · 26 May 2017

All the pre-2000ish aircon needs ripping out and replacing with a modern system.

The problem is, who pays?

bunnahabhain · 26 May 2017

158 aircon is only designed to keep the temperature approximately at 21 degrees depending on the outside temperature. It is also only able to cool 38Kw of heat per hour, which is roughly equivalent to a half loading without any solar gain. The issue is further compounded by some members of staff thinking they're doing great customer service by opening the windows because somebody feels warm, but not turning the aircon to vent mode, or off entirely thereby damaging the system by forcing it to overwork.

bramling · 26 May 2017

Bletchleyite said:
All the pre-2000ish aircon needs ripping out and replacing with a modern system.

The problem is, who pays?

Something does need to be done with the fleets where air conditioning is routinely unreliable. If it is not going to be made to work then opening windows need to be fitted and the air conditioning ditched.

Of course this issue isn't just confined to older trains, see the class 700 thread for another example. At least Electrostars and 158s have at least some openable windows.

superkev · 26 May 2017

Until the operators are penalised financially for running defective trains I fear maintaining or enhancing the air con will remain a low priority.
Pity as for medium distance journeys particularly the more powerful 400hp 158 and159's are probably the pick of the dmu's.
K

fgwrich · 26 May 2017

I would say that least the Liebherr system fitted to SWTs units, and some of the ScotRail fleets does seem to be pretty reliable. Not least in some of the warmer temperatures we've had this week.

One feature I do dislike and it is related to the GWR livery is the painting of the Turbo and 158 roofs in Matt Black. Not the greatest of colours to use if your Air Con below isn't very effective in my mind. The 166s have had work carried out to them at Long Marston, but until they receive a Chiltern style Air Cooling system as part of their future refurbishment, I fear they'll sink back to levels as before. Unfortunately the 158s either need the Liebherr system or something similar.

gareth950 · 26 May 2017

Bletchleyite said:
All the pre-2000ish aircon needs ripping out and replacing with a modern system.

The problem is, who pays?

The ROSCOs pay up? They own the trains so it's their responsibility surely?

PHILIPE · 26 May 2017

gareth950 said:
So, another period of hot weather, and yet again passengers complaining of cooking on class 158s due to faulty air con. I myself was one of those passengers on Wednesday. When a green GWR 158 pulled in to the platform at Bristol TM I expected that as it's obviously just come back from an extensive refresh/refurb that the time would've been taken to fix the air con whilst it was away. But no.

So, as the 158s will be around long past 2020, surely as they are refreshed or refurbished to meet 2020 standards the air con can finally be fixed at the same time?

With sophisticated climate controlled environments in modern cars now, passengers will expect similar conditions on long - medium distance train journeys. It's unacceptable in 2017 for passengers to be baking on 158s for medium distance journeys in hot weather!

I know the air con units of 158s were designed for use with CFCs which immediately made them redundant when they came into use, but that was 25 years ago! Do their sister 159s have the same air con problems?

The GWR 158s didn't go away for exam/painting that would include the air-con. It's a far reaching problem that has been with us since they were built in 1989/90 and not a quick Works fix. TOCs twitters keep telling passengers to inform the conductors so that may be able to adjust the temperature. They can't. The problem lies with the product itself and it makes me wonder if the ROSCOs are interested enough to deal with it.

Might want to refresh with the topic which was previously discussed here:-

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=126669&highlight=158+airconditioning

43096 · 26 May 2017

gareth950 said:
The ROSCOs pay up? They own the trains so it's their responsibility surely?

Or Government pays up because a) they bought the trains (as BR) originally and b) at least some of the issue is a legislative change than banned the use of some refrigerants and forced replacement with less efficient alternatives.

Crossover · 26 May 2017

Northern is similar either works fantastically well or not at all. Unfortunately, on Saturday when the temperatures weren't quite so high, it was working far too well and by the time we had gone from Leeds to Carlisle, it was rather chilly. The heat of the week has probably broken that once working air con system since though :P

GW43125 · 26 May 2017

Crossover said:
Northern is similar either works fantastically well or not at all. Unfortunately, on Saturday when the temperatures weren't quite so high, it was working far too well and by the time we had gone from Leeds to Carlisle, it was rather chilly. The heat of the week has probably broken that once working air con system since though :P

I find SWT desiros like that. You either freeze or bake. Once I walked into the front unit and could see my breath! but 1% of the time it does work properly, take today for instance, it was glorious!

Bletchleyite · 26 May 2017

Interesting, I find the LM ones almost always working fine. Maybe a little cold for some but I like it like that.

Blindtraveler · 26 May 2017

Bring on the fridge I say!

I had 4 different Northern 158s over 2 days last weekend and each and everyone was nice and cool with 1 of them acceptionally so to the point where stepping from train to platform was noticeable. Say what you like about them but Northern do seam to know what to do with 158s. Those praising the Scotrail sets I think we must have different experiences as Iv not had a cool scotrail unit in years

PHILIPE · 26 May 2017

Bletchleyite said:
Interesting, I find the LM ones almost always working fine. Maybe a little cold for some but I like it like that.

How can the LM 158s be working fine. They haven't got any

Laryk · 26 May 2017

PHILIPE said:
How can the LM 158s be working fine. They haven't got any

Read like this:

GW43125 said:
I find SWT desiros like that. You either freeze or bake. Once I walked into the front unit and could see my breath! but 1% of the time it does work properly, take today for instance, it was glorious!

Bletchleyite said:

Interesting, I find the LM ones almost always working fine. Maybe a little cold for some but I like it like that.

Click to expand...

PHILIPE · 26 May 2017

Laryk said:
Read like this:

That explains the post. Thanks

61653 HTAFC · 26 May 2017

Right now I'm on the middle car of unrefurbished 158757. Air conditioning working well, getting on at Batley was like going into a walk-in fridge!

topydre · 26 May 2017

The 158 from Borth to Aberystwyth today was awful. All windows open but still baking hot. One woman with a walking stick opted to leave her seat on a packed train and stand in the vestibule because it was slightly cooler there! I pity those who'd been on the train since Birmingham!

edwin_m · 26 May 2017

1230 from Cardiff to Portsmouth today was a blue 158 with no aircon in the middle or last cars. At Bristol the (very helpful) conductor announced that there would be a delay waiting to fix that problem, but 20min later they had "found a solution" which was to run the train, still with the same problems, out to Lawrence Hill and back round the Rhubarb Curve so the driver was in a cab with working aircon for the rest of the journey. Not sure what they did when it got to Portsmouth. Also passed a green 158 at Abbey Wood with windows open on 2 out of 3 cars.

cjmillsnun · 26 May 2017

gareth950 said:
The ROSCOs pay up? They own the trains so it's their responsibility surely?

The ROSCOs will pass the charge down in increased leasing costs. Operators don't want to pay more for the same train. Even if the air con does work!

Kite159 · 26 May 2017

158706 this afternoon working a Wick service was quite warm. I wasn't the only passenger to take advantage of the usual "waiting for a delayed train to arrive" break to get some fresh air.

gareth950 · 26 May 2017

topydre said:
The 158 from Borth to Aberystwyth today was awful. All windows open but still baking hot. One woman with a walking stick opted to leave her seat on a packed train and stand in the vestibule because it was slightly cooler there! I pity those who'd been on the train since Birmingham!

edwin_m said:
1230 from Cardiff to Portsmouth today was a blue 158 with no aircon in the middle or last cars. Also passed a green 158 at Abbey Wood with windows open on 2 out of 3 cars.

Sounds like it's mainly the GWR and ATW 158s that have the air con faults with Northern and Scotrail 158s being more reliable. Different ROSCOs or just luck?

Parallel · 26 May 2017

Newly refurbished 158950 had failed aircon in at least two of the three carriages today! Thankfully the return journey on 158952 had working aircon!

Bornin1980s · 27 May 2017

If the problem is the ban on CFCs, why aren't the HSTs so affected? They are much older.

LiftFan · 27 May 2017

The SWT 158s and 159s I have ridden have always had much more reliable air con - the GWR 158s are terrible when it comes to being any sort of cool, especially as the windows are always locked shut...

LowLevel · 27 May 2017

They're awful - I'd happily spend all summer on local services to avoid them. Some aren't too bad but it's not unusual to get on a unit with it's fluids plastered all over the vestibule ceiling and the fateful 'air con next b exam' in the repair book.

SpacePhoenix · 27 May 2017

Would it be financially viable (given the age of the 158s) for GWR to replace the entire air con system in their 158s with the system used by SWTs in their 158s/159s?

Bletchleyite · 27 May 2017

SpacePhoenix said:
Would it be financially viable (given the age of the 158s) for GWR to replace the entire air con system in their 158s with the system used by SWTs in their 158s/159s?

I don't know if it would as that would very much depend on their franchise agreement, but in railway terms units built in the mid 1990s are not old, so their age is not really a consideration. They are likely to run for at least another 15-20 years, I would expect, unless there is a major class-specific issue like corrosion.

Class 158 air conditioning

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