Labour MP says 'merit' in women-only train carriages

northwichcat · 23 Aug 2017

Camden said:
The "idea" is an utter nonsense. The answer to crime is not for victims of it to have to hide away while allowing the perpetrators to remain free to roam the main space.

It's offensive. If politicians can't do their job of keeping society safe by ensuring the protective system is resourced properly then they've no business being politicians.

Agreed. 100% of women aren't vulnerable and 100% of men aren't invulnerable, if you want a safe area for vulnerable passengers gender alone shouldn't be the qualifying criteria for being admitted to the safe area. Even then unless a safe area has sufficient security staff it could be counter-productive to advertise to potential criminals where all the vulnerable passengers are located. I also wonder if the MPs who have suggested the idea (either now or in the past) have thought how a women only carriage would work on a 1 or even 2 carriage train. Presumably on a 2 car train you'd have to make the non-toilet carriage the women only one, then you've allocated over half the seats as women only, while many women won't want to sit in the women only carriage because they are travelling with male companions.

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Moonshot · 23 Aug 2017

jcollins said:
Agreed. 100% of women aren't vulnerable and 100% of men aren't invulnerable, if you want a safe area for vulnerable passengers gender alone shouldn't be the qualifying criteria for being admitted to the safe area. Even then unless a safe area has sufficient security staff it could be counter-productive to advertise to potential criminals where all the vulnerable passengers are located. I also wonder if the MPs who have suggested the idea (either now or in the past) have thought how a women only carriage would work on a 1 or even 2 carriage train. Presumably on a 2 car train you'd have to make the non-toilet carriage the women only one, then you've allocated over half the seats as women only, while many women won't want to sit in the women only carriage because they are travelling with male companions.

Sirely it should be the toilet coach ???

Gathursty · 23 Aug 2017

It would be easier to have a carriage designated for perverts, upskirt photo takers and prospective sex attackers.

Moonshot · 23 Aug 2017

Gathursty said:
It would be easier to have a carriage designated for perverts, upskirt photo takers and prospective sex attackers.

We already have.....its called a staff train !!

northwichcat · 23 Aug 2017

Moonshot said:
Sirely it should be the toilet coach ???

But then you'd have to ban men from using the toilet (clear breach of the Equalities Act) or allow men to go in to the women only carriage for the purpose of using the toilet.

KashmireHawker · 23 Aug 2017

As a Labour member myself, this makes me pretty unhappy seeing this doing the rounds again. Williamson was also only reelected in Derby North in June, was a gain off the Tories - which we lost to them in 2015, so the fella is walking on a very unstable tightrope already...

Moonshot · 23 Aug 2017

jcollins said:
But then you'd have to ban men from using the toilet (clear breach of the Equalities Act) or allow men to go in to the women only carriage for the purpose of using the toilet.

Remove toilets from trains....problem solved!!

mpthomson · 23 Aug 2017

backontrack said:
Agreed. It's silly season, folks. This is hardly a manifesto pledge.

That's not good enough though, and I'd say that whichever party he was from. He's repeated something that the party leader has already proposed and he's a shadow cabinet member, he's not a random back-bencher.

Of course it's not a manifesto pledge, mainly because it's a daft idea, but it's from someone close to the party leader as well his shadow cabinet brief, so it's always going to make the news and seen as a possible re-launch of a proposed policy.

If you don't want to look silly, don't say something stupid is a lesson clearly forgotten here.

thenorthern · 23 Aug 2017

Regarding Labour their leader Jeremy Corbyn has suggested it before I think it was just after he became leader so its not just one MP suggesting it.

I think it would be difficult to enforce as there are the people who don't identify with either gender and the ones who identify as one of 50 different Genders.

Failed Unit · 23 Aug 2017

Gathursty said:
It would be easier to have a carriage designated for perverts, upskirt photo takers and prospective sex attackers.

Use for the 153s after all. Will get my coat.

DarloRich · 23 Aug 2017

thenorthern said:
Looks like its come up again.

Why does Labour even raise it as a topic?

One thing I like about the United Kingdom is we have very little gender segregation even compared to Europe. We don't have women only banks, parking spaces, police stations or many other things that exist in other countries.

Why raise it as a topic - publicity, media coverage and column inches on the back of an increase in reported sexual assaults on public transport.

BTW how do we arrange this on a 1 carriage train?

MarlowDonkey · 23 Aug 2017

Sixty years ago, with non-gangway, non-corridor carriages on suburban services commonplace, wasn't it standard practice to have a compartment or two designated "ladies only"?

This would have abolished because of the design, once, with DMUs, you had internal gangways at the very least.

northwichcat · 23 Aug 2017

Moonshot said:
Remove toilets from trains....problem solved!!

You seem to be coming up with unworkable solutions for the purpose of implementing an unworkable idea.

Yesterday there was a signalling problem affecting Mid-Cheshire line services. If a passenger had been dropped off at Northwich station (which has no public toilets nearby) for the 17:30 train to Manchester and were travelling to Manchester then they would have had no access to toilets for almost 3 hours had there not been a toilet on the train.

northwichcat · 23 Aug 2017

thenorthern said:
Regarding Labour their leader Jeremy Corbyn has suggested it before I think it was just after he became leader so its not just one MP suggesting it.

Also Claire Perry suggested it while she was a transport minister but immediately said they had dismissed it as non-viable when Corbyn spoke of looking in to the idea.

Yew · 23 Aug 2017

thenorthern said:
Why does Labour even raise it as a topic?

Sounds to me like they're posturing some idle discussion in the wake of new statistics being released as if it's an official policy announcement...

thenorthern · 23 Aug 2017

The Women's Equality Party which has no MPs, MEP, MSPs, AMs, MLAs or Councillors but the BBC still quotes a lot of the time has said they think its a bad idea.

Gender only spaces are strange as occasionally I get my hair cut at a place that bans women from entering and its and odd atmosphere.

bramling · 23 Aug 2017

thenorthern said:
Looks like its come up again.

Why does Labour even raise it as a topic?

One thing I like about the United Kingdom is we have very little gender segregation even compared to Europe. We don't have women only banks, parking spaces, police stations or many other things that exist in other countries.

I'm all for it ... as long as we also get male-only carriages so I can travel without having to listen to women banging on about village gossip.

Seriously, it's a stupid thing. It sends a terrible message to the rest of the world that we have to segregate people to keep them safe. Won't happen anyway.

rebmcr · 23 Aug 2017

Designating a women-only carriage, on the premise of sexual attacks, sends the message that such attacks are accepted as unenforcable in a regular carriage.

Get this clown out of the party!

Clip · 23 Aug 2017

rebmcr said:
Designating a women-only carriage, on the premise of sexual attacks, sends the message that such attacks are accepted as unenforcable in a regular carriage.

!

No it doesn't at all.

There are a number of countries who have introduced these quite successfully

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...transport-How-they-work-around-the-world.html

Richard1960 · 23 Aug 2017

Its absolutely a ridiculous notion just who is going to police it.?

All trains in my town Harlow are DOO,IE no guard just a driver.:-x

PHILIPE · 23 Aug 2017

The Equality, Diversity, Gender and Racism fuss issues that are brought up are going too far now. All can be covered by "Don't discriminate"

Gareth · 23 Aug 2017

rebmcr said:
Designating a women-only carriage, on the premise of sexual attacks, sends the message that such attacks are accepted as unenforcable in a regular carriage.

And that all men are rightfully viewed as potential suspects.

It reminds me of the time I got ordered out of a municipal swimming pool because the clock had chimed and now it was 'women only swim' time. The staff weren't unpleasant or anything but it nonetheless made me feel like a pervert, as I did the walk of shame.

Richard1960 · 23 Aug 2017

Gareth said:
And that all men are rightfully viewed as potential suspects.
It reminds me of the time I got ordered out of a municipal swimming pool because the clock had chimed and now it was 'women only swim' time. The staff weren't unpleasant or anything but it nonetheless made me feel like a pervert, as I did the walk of shame.

I think it was the prominent writer Germaine Greer who said "All men are potential rapists ". Just shows what the view is in the educated class.

adrock1976 · 23 Aug 2017

An article I stumbled upon a few years ago (I cannot find the link to it now) from an Asian perspective how women in Japan are standing up to the widespread groping on the Tokyo Underground.

I remember it mentioned that how some of the women are shaming the gropers is that they grab the groper's wrist and hold their hand up in the air while loudly shouting "Whose hand is this?". Needless to say, some of the gropers leave the train at the next stop with ashen faces.

bramling · 23 Aug 2017

Richard1960 said:
I think it was the prominent writer Germaine Greer who said "All men are potential rapists ". Just shows what the view is in the educated class.

A disgusting viewpoint. One could extend that to say that all people, including women, are potential murderers.

AlterEgo · 23 Aug 2017

Richard1960 said:
I think it was the prominent writer Germaine Greer who said "All men are potential rapists ". Just shows what the view is in the educated class.

It wasn't her, I don't think, but it's hard to tell militant feminists apart. It was someone else whose name I cannot remember (unsurprisingly).

northwichcat · 23 Aug 2017

Jess Phillips said something along those lines in a Channel 4 interview.

delt1c · 23 Aug 2017

How can you have sex equality , yet introduce segregation of sexes?
this is a question not a statement

Richard1960 · 23 Aug 2017

AlterEgo said:
It wasn't her, I don't think, but it's hard to tell militant feminists apart. It was someone else whose name I cannot remember (unsurprisingly).

Yes I am open to correction on that one.

driver_m · 23 Aug 2017

Without going through this topic. Has anyone answered the question of what happens if I need to reset something in said 'woman only' carriage.

'no, I can't reset your HVAC as I'm a man and not allowed in...!'

I'm a labour member, and this has to be one of the more stupid ideas we've come up with. How about just sticking with a guard on every train and more police, and not giving up on keeping women safe.

Labour MP says 'merit' in women-only train carriages

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