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Bi-Lingual App Possibilities for Disruption

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Chris M

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How easy would it be to develop an app that displayed (and/or spoke) messages in a given language on your own device when prompted to do so by a signal from the train? Obviously it would only work with pre-recorded announcements but no other mutli-lingual solution would do any different unless you happened to have a multi-lingual staff member on board making the announcements (and the chances of them speaking more than one or two languages in addition to English are pretty slim). I imagine that it would only work with trains that have wifi, but the proportion with that is only going to get bigger.
 
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DynamicSpirit

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How easy would it be to develop an app that displayed (and/or spoke) messages in a given language on your own device when prompted to do so by a signal from the train? Obviously it would only work with pre-recorded announcements but no other mutli-lingual solution would do any different unless you happened to have a multi-lingual staff member on board making the announcements (and the chances of them speaking more than one or two languages in addition to English are pretty slim). I imagine that it would only work with trains that have wifi, but the proportion with that is only going to get bigger.

Off the top of my head, not impossible, but difficult. Once you have got the signal to your phone, then it's fairly easy. You just need the signal to contain the information NR wants to transmit and your app would translate it (possibly imperfectly, which could be an issue) to the language of your choice. The app might come pre-configured with translations of common railway terms to make the translation more accurate.

However, the real problem is getting the signal to your phone. Off the top of my head, phones can typically receive data signals in 3 ways:
  • Internet data, which the phone expects to come in a standard format from an Internet server, either over your phone network operator's cellular network, or via a wireless network.
  • Text/etc. data, which should come over the operator's cellular network.
  • Bluetooth
The data has to be sent only to phones on a particular train, which I think would make it very difficult to use the cellular network, as that has a much wider coverage. Internet data might be a possibility, but that would require the train to run a wireless network, and passengers would have to know to connect their phones to it. And that brings about additional problems that most phones will only connect to one wireless network at a time, so unless the train also takes responsibility for providing broadband internet to everyone on board as well, you're screwed if you want train announcements AND to have the Internet working on your phone. The train would possibly also have to do some kind of faking of the messages it sends so they look like they come from a remote server. I don't think any of those problems are insurmountable, but you'd have to throw some serious money at them to solve them.

That leaves Bluetooth, which might be possible, as the 100m-ish range of bluetooth is quite appropriate. I'm not massively familiar with bluetooth, but I think there could be issues with metal objects in the train (seats?) blocking the signal, and - more seriously - with signals leaking out of windows into nearby trains. Bluetooth has had historical security issues, I'm not sure if those have now been fixed, but it wouldn't be at all viable unless they have been. I certainly never switch bluetooth on unless I actually have a nearby device that I want to talk to right at that moment.

Another possibility, which might be technologically more realistic, is to avoid having each train sending its own data, but rather have something like a Network Rail central webserver send out data for all trains on the network, and when people get on a train, they have to do something to manually tell the app which train they are on, so the phone knows which data coming from the NR web server to translate/display. That would be technologically much easier, provided NR can get immediate access to positioning data for all trains, but I suspect the risks of user error make that not workable (passenger gets on the 16:07 to Dover Priory, hits the wrong button so their phone thinks they're on the 16:09 to Dartford and starts giving the user all the announcements for that train...)

Finally, perhaps something could be done using geolocation data. That ought to be a very easy option as Google basically already does that when providing information about shops etc. nearby. However I doubt that it would be workable on trains because your location won't necessarily be able to determine which of two nearby trains you are actually on (and it also would require some central server to know almost exactly where each train is at a given moment. Not just which signal block each train is in, but precisely where within the signal block the train is, so it could match up your location to the right train).
 
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Bletchleyite

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How easy would it be to develop an app that displayed (and/or spoke) messages in a given language on your own device when prompted to do so by a signal from the train? Obviously it would only work with pre-recorded announcements but no other mutli-lingual solution would do any different unless you happened to have a multi-lingual staff member on board making the announcements (and the chances of them speaking more than one or two languages in addition to English are pretty slim). I imagine that it would only work with trains that have wifi, but the proportion with that is only going to get bigger.

One way for them to do it is to point the "visual" Google Translate app at any on-board displays.
 

theironroad

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One way for them to do it is to point the "visual" Google Translate app at any on-board displays.

I'm not sure how well that would work with the scrolling display screens. My, albeit limited, use of the app on static posters etc often gives odd results.
 

Wombat

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12 Jul 2013
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299
Another possibility, which might be technologically more realistic, is to avoid having each train sending its own data, but rather have something like a Network Rail central webserver send out data for all trains on the network, and when people get on a train, they have to do something to manually tell the app which train they are on, so the phone knows which data coming from the NR web server to translate/display. That would be technologically much easier, provided NR can get immediate access to positioning data for all trains, but I suspect the risks of user error make that not workable (passenger gets on the 16:07 to Dover Priory, hits the wrong button so their phone thinks they're on the 16:09 to Dartford and starts giving the user all the announcements for that train...)
Maybe a QR code would do the trick? I expect that there's a system somewhere that knows which carriages form part of each train, so if the QR code corresponds to the unique identifier of a carriage you'd be able to work out which service the passenger was on. I freely admit that I'm making all sorts of assumptions here.
 

rebmcr

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However, the real problem is getting the signal to your phone. Off the top of my head, phones can typically receive data signals in 3 ways:
  • Internet data, which the phone expects to come in a standard format from an Internet server, either over your phone network operator's cellular network, or via a wireless network.
  • Text/etc. data, which should come over the operator's cellular network.
  • Bluetooth

That sort of functionality would be so well-suited to ultrasonic signals that I think it would be a certainty for any such app to use them.
 

Leo1961

Member
Joined
13 Sep 2013
Messages
74
Off the top of my head, not impossible, but difficult. Once you have got the signal to your phone, then it's fairly easy. You just need the signal to contain the information NR wants to transmit and your app would translate it (possibly imperfectly, which could be an issue) to the language of your choice. The app might come pre-configured with translations of common railway terms to make the translation more accurate.

However, the real problem is getting the signal to your phone. Off the top of my head, phones can typically receive data signals in 3 ways:
  • Internet data, which the phone expects to come in a standard format from an Internet server, either over your phone network operator's cellular network, or via a wireless network.
  • Text/etc. data, which should come over the operator's cellular network.
  • Bluetooth
The data has to be sent only to phones on a particular train, which I think would make it very difficult to use the cellular network, as that has a much wider coverage. Internet data might be a possibility, but that would require the train to run a wireless network, and passengers would have to know to connect their phones to it. And that brings about additional problems that most phones will only connect to one wireless network at a time, so unless the train also takes responsibility for providing broadband internet to everyone on board as well, you're screwed if you want train announcements AND to have the Internet working on your phone. The train would possibly also have to do some kind of faking of the messages it sends so they look like they come from a remote server. I don't think any of those problems are insurmountable, but you'd have to throw some serious money at them to solve them.

That leaves Bluetooth, which might be possible, as the 100m-ish range of bluetooth is quite appropriate. I'm not massively familiar with bluetooth, but I think there could be issues with metal objects in the train (seats?) blocking the signal, and - more seriously - with signals leaking out of windows into nearby trains. Bluetooth has had historical security issues, I'm not sure if those have now been fixed, but it wouldn't be at all viable unless they have been. I certainly never switch bluetooth on unless I actually have a nearby device that I want to talk to right at that moment.

Another possibility, which might be technologically more realistic, is to avoid having each train sending its own data, but rather have something like a Network Rail central webserver send out data for all trains on the network, and when people get on a train, they have to do something to manually tell the app which train they are on, so the phone knows which data coming from the NR web server to translate/display. That would be technologically much easier, provided NR can get immediate access to positioning data for all trains, but I suspect the risks of user error make that not workable (passenger gets on the 16:07 to Dover Priory, hits the wrong button so their phone thinks they're on the 16:09 to Dartford and starts giving the user all the announcements for that train...)

Finally, perhaps something could be done using geolocation data. That ought to be a very easy option as Google basically already does that when providing information about shops etc. nearby. However I doubt that it would be workable on trains because your location won't necessarily be able to determine which of two nearby trains you are actually on (and it also would require some central server to know almost exactly where each train is at a given moment. Not just which signal block each train is in, but precisely where within the signal block the train is, so it could match up your location to the right train).


Why not just use a Babel Fish in the ear socket? 8-)
 

edwin_m

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21 Apr 2013
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Nottingham
Off the top of my head, not impossible, but difficult...
VTEC and probably other operators have information about the specific train on the homepage of the on-board wifi, such as current position and predicted time at future stops. So it wouldn't be impossible to provide some more web pages that give this information in a choice of language along with alerts when approaching a station, or to requests texts in a particular language to a particular number. Yes you'd have to log into the on-train wifi to benefit, but most people probably do that anyway and it would only be the people needing the language support that had to. The biggest challenge would most likely be how to promote the service, given that the beneficiaries don't speak English and probably haven't logged on of their own accord.
 

Chrisgr31

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2 Aug 2011
Messages
1,675
It doesn't matter what system you use the reality is most people wont be using the train wi-fi, don't have bluetooth enabled etc.
 
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