Reversing a bus on the public highway (when not part of the route)

I encountered an interesting situation today while travelling on the Stagecoach East service 66 between Huntingdon and St Neots. (Long explanation coming up...)

Travelling through the village of Buckden, the bus pulls out to pass a row of parked cars in the centre of the village, when a van turns out of a junction heading towards the bus. Rather than reverse up to allow the bus through, the van driver pushes forward towards the bus, gesturing to the bus driver to reverse the bus up. The driver starts shouting back to the van driver that they cannot reverse the bus on a public road and that he should back his van up to let them through. The van driver's having none of it, and literally brings his van right up to the front of the bus, shouting at the bus driver to reverse the bus. Again, the driver shouts back that they can't reverse the bus on a public road.
So a stalemate ensues at this point. Another van comes up behind the bus, so the driver of the first van starts shouting to them to reverse their van to give space for the bus to reverse. With the stalemate continuing, the second van driver approaches the bus to see what's causing the hold-up. Opening the doors, the bus driver tells them that they cannot reverse the bus without a police officer or a second member of staff being present, so would not be moving unless the first van driver backs up or the police are called. With this, the second van driver tells the first that he should reverse up, leading to him angrily reversing his van back to the junction but stopping short, and therefore not leaving enough space for the bus to pass between it and the last parked car. Once the bus approaches the van, he mounts the pavement to pass the bus, blasting his horn as he passes, as if to be making some kind of statement to the bus driver.

The bus had pulled out to pass the parked cars before the van rounded the junction, so it couldn't be argued that the van was going through first ('right of way'). The rest of the traffic held back before the junction, leaving enough space for the van to reverse up and allow the bus through. It seemed like the van driver was just being obstinate, with the expectation that the bus should reverse up to let him through, when it would be a lot easier for him to reverse his van. In case you're wondering, the bus in question was an ALX400 double decker.

Now this leads me to ask a question: is it true that a bus can only be reversed on the public highway if a police officer or suitably trained person is there to guide it? I understand reversing without a police officer/second person being permitted when it is part of the route (in my local area Stagecoach service 73 Biggleswade-Bedford has a reversal in Sandy), but not sure about a situation like this. Looking through the forums, I found a thread that discussed this matter for a different reason (regarding dealing with obstructively parked cars), but the conclusion wasn't 100% clear. From that thread:

Dentonian said:

Hmm!
Both 3 and 5 are illegal, but I have sympathy with using 3 - as at least you considered the safety of pedestrians unlike certain "transportants".

5. You need a second person to guide you if you reverse a pcv on a public highway, and you need permission to divert from the route registered with VOSA.

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_toommm_ said:

5 is absolute rubbish! There are bus services which have a reversal as part of a route, often so that they can serve a little one-stop-shop village - The 65 from Sheffield to Buxton has at least one reversal in it.

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PermitToTravel said:

There's definitely no specific law against reversing a bus. It might be dangerous (and so Dangerous Driving) to do so without external assistance, depending on the circumstances; and it's a crime to reverse any vehicle for longer than necessary.

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No, it's not true. It happens regularly.

Ive had 2 experiences with First Glasgow . Once the 31 bus got stuck in Carmunnock against a house , this has happened twice . The driver on both occasion s has got out had a look then reversed .
Another was the no6 at Busby when the low bridge was shut . The driver had to drive up a side st and couldnt turn the bus so drove into a cul de sac and did a 5 point turn !

I'm guessing it must just be a Stagecoach East policy then. It's not impossible for the driver to simply be using an excuse not to reverse the bus, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and favour company policy being the reason. Nevertheless, in this situation, it would've been a lot easier for the van to reverse up than for the bus, so common sense should have prevailed.

What if two buses meet on a single track road? I described such a situation in a thread a year or two ago. It was on a 'running day' so both buses were the real deal, too, not just glorified bread vans. Quite a number of cars had to back up too, that were behind the bus that backed up. A bus driver should generally be capable of dealing with such situations, although at night on an unlit road is probably not ideal, to say the least. Whether the bus has passengers on board is an important factor, because they mustn't be put at unnecessary risk. How a driverless bus would handle the situation is a moot point.

There was some discussion on this recently within this thread...

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-a-car-blocking-the-road.160009/#post-3310298

Silver Cobra said:

I encountered an interesting situation today while travelling on the Stagecoach East service 66 between Huntingdon and St Neots. (Long explanation coming up...)

Travelling through the village of Buckden, the bus pulls out to pass a row of parked cars in the centre of the village, when a van turns out of a junction heading towards the bus. Rather than reverse up to allow the bus through, the van driver pushes forward towards the bus, gesturing to the bus driver to reverse the bus up. The driver starts shouting back to the van driver that they cannot reverse the bus on a public road and that he should back his van up to let them through. The van driver's having none of it, and literally brings his van right up to the front of the bus, shouting at the bus driver to reverse the bus. Again, the driver shouts back that they can't reverse the bus on a public road.
So a stalemate ensues at this point. Another van comes up behind the bus, so the driver of the first van starts shouting to them to reverse their van to give space for the bus to reverse. With the stalemate continuing, the second van driver approaches the bus to see what's causing the hold-up. Opening the doors, the bus driver tells them that they cannot reverse the bus without a police officer or a second member of staff being present, so would not be moving unless the first van driver backs up or the police are called. With this, the second van driver tells the first that he should reverse up, leading to him angrily reversing his van back to the junction but stopping short, and therefore not leaving enough space for the bus to pass between it and the last parked car. Once the bus approaches the van, he mounts the pavement to pass the bus, blasting his horn as he passes, as if to be making some kind of statement to the bus driver.

The bus had pulled out to pass the parked cars before the van rounded the junction, so it couldn't be argued that the van was going through first ('right of way'). The rest of the traffic held back before the junction, leaving enough space for the van to reverse up and allow the bus through. It seemed like the van driver was just being obstinate, with the expectation that the bus should reverse up to let him through, when it would be a lot easier for him to reverse his van. In case you're wondering, the bus in question was an ALX400 double decker.

Now this leads me to ask a question: is it true that a bus can only be reversed on the public highway if a police officer or suitably trained person is there to guide it? I understand reversing without a police officer/second person being permitted when it is part of the route (in my local area Stagecoach service 73 Biggleswade-Bedford has a reversal in Sandy), but not sure about a situation like this. Looking through the forums, I found a thread that discussed this matter for a different reason (regarding dealing with obstructively parked cars), but the conclusion wasn't 100% clear. From that thread:

Click to expand...

my post from another thread... I hope this clarifies matters for you:

I see the old chestnut of buses reversing has resurfaced. This is a topic that regularly appears on here in different threads..

As I remember it, it WAS illegal to reverse a bus with passengers on board on a public highway without a company official acting as banksman. I definitely remember reading this in the relevant Act of Parliament many years ago when I first started in the industry, however, for the life of me I can't remember whether it was the Road Traffic Act 1930 or the Conduct of Drivers Passengers and Conductors Act 1936.

Of course, in those far off days there was more likely than not a company official readily at hand as all but the smallest buses required a conductor to be on board.

Then came the relaxation of the size of vehicle allowed for OMO until in 1966 OMO DD's were allowed.

Originally as routes were converted to OMO they had to be passed for such operation by the Traffic Commisioners. As time went on it became neccessary for routes with reversing manouvres within the running of the route to be converted to OMO, and with the general relaxation of rules the TC's started to allow such routes to be converted... and to be frank the police had better things to do than enforce achaic rules. AIUI the need for a banksman was removed in the Road Traffic Act 1980.

NOTE: it has never been a legal requirement for the need for a banksman at the end of a route as the bus would be empty, the last passengers having disembarked from the last journey and the first passengers for the new journey not having boarded already. Nor has it ever been neccessary for a banksman in bus stations as bus stations are NOT public highway, they are private property that the public have access to... 2 entirely different legal entities.

now ssshhhhh.. don't tell anyone, but us bus drivers have continued to foster the urban myth that buses aren't allowed to reverse with passengers on board for a very good reason... when we meet Tristan in his BMW or Sharon in her Audi on a narrow country lane and said people expect bus to reverse 100 yds when they only need to go back 50 ft, it don't half come in handy to be able to convince them that you are legally forbidden to reverse

Numpty drivers in narrow roads are a problem for anybody. I have known somebody drive into the middle of a passing space with 3/4 of a car width on each side and expect me to back up.

deleted

Teflon Lettuce said:

my post from another thread... I hope this clarifies matters for you:

I see the old chestnut of buses reversing has resurfaced. This is a topic that regularly appears on here in different threads..

As I remember it, it WAS illegal to reverse a bus with passengers on board on a public highway without a company official acting as banksman. I definitely remember reading this in the relevant Act of Parliament many years ago when I first started in the industry, however, for the life of me I can't remember whether it was the Road Traffic Act 1930 or the Conduct of Drivers Passengers and Conductors Act 1936.

Of course, in those far off days there was more likely than not a company official readily at hand as all but the smallest buses required a conductor to be on board.

Then came the relaxation of the size of vehicle allowed for OMO until in 1966 OMO DD's were allowed.

Originally as routes were converted to OMO they had to be passed for such operation by the Traffic Commisioners. As time went on it became neccessary for routes with reversing manouvres within the running of the route to be converted to OMO, and with the general relaxation of rules the TC's started to allow such routes to be converted... and to be frank the police had better things to do than enforce achaic rules. AIUI the need for a banksman was removed in the Road Traffic Act 1980.

NOTE: it has never been a legal requirement for the need for a banksman at the end of a route as the bus would be empty, the last passengers having disembarked from the last journey and the first passengers for the new journey not having boarded already. Nor has it ever been neccessary for a banksman in bus stations as bus stations are NOT public highway, they are private property that the public have access to... 2 entirely different legal entities.

now ssshhhhh.. don't tell anyone, but us bus drivers have continued to foster the urban myth that buses aren't allowed to reverse with passengers on board for a very good reason... when we meet Tristan in his BMW or Sharon in her Audi on a narrow country lane and said people expect bus to reverse 100 yds when they only need to go back 50 ft, it don't half come in handy to be able to convince them that you are legally forbidden to reverse

Click to expand...

Thanks for your explanation. It certainly makes a lot more sense now

I recently had a bus driver reverse on a public highway doing a three point turn after having gone the wrong way!

(He'd taken the hourly diversion on a half hourly route)

I once saw a bus driver leave his cab and reverse a car for an elderly driver in order for him to be able to get past.

The 217 from Bude to Hartland via Woodford is timetabled to reverse three times en route and does so a lot more due to it running on virtually entirely single track very narrow roads (a scenic route too which I thorough recommend). That being said, many Stagecoach South West drivers refuse to reverse saying its illegal. Where that becomes a fun argument is, for example, the regular occasions where the 1 from Exeter to Cullompton meets the bus in the reverse direction on the narrow section of Bradninch Hill and one has to reverse. Ridiculously the bus runs every 2 hours on Sunday with buses scheduled to pass there!!!