Transpennine Express Timetable May 2018 (Leeds - Manchester)

Would the Ordsall Chord have been funded if the plan was to only run 1tph on it? Would the reduction in TPE services at Piccadilly be acceptable to the various stakeholders? I'll also point out that the 'new' TPE service will be the skip-stopper, rather than anything new going beyond Manchester city centre.

Manchester Airport clearly feel that the North East is an important market place for them, given they are sponsoring Newcastle Pride this year!

Starmill said:

One of the hourly services is from Middlesbrough. notlob.divad was commenting on the second hourly service going to Manchester Airport which is required to serve York, Leeds and Huddersfield. I will not believe that there is demand enough from towns like Middlesbrough and Huddersfield or cities like York and Leeds that one service per hour is not adequate. This would mean a choice between Newcastle and Durham or Thornaby and Middlesbrough would need to be made.

I find it hard to believe that direct trains from Teeside to Manchester Airport are somehow crucial, given that places like Knutsford, Bangor, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Barnsley, Nottingham, Derby, Wrexham and Leicester do not have direct Manchester Airport services and will have to do without them for the whole of the foreseeable future, and places like Rochdale, Bradford and Warrington are only now gaining them.

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Very considerate of you to highlight your typo in bold. It is Teesside!

faltskog36abba said:

Another reason trans pennine switched stations in the late 80s was- The Windsor link. All the main services which served Victoria-Blackpool, Edinburgh /Glasgow, Southport, were to be re-routed making Piccadilly a better interchange. Rail magazine at the time said it was because of more patronage on the Warrington line rather than chat moss.

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The Windsor Link could only deliver so much though, as much as it opened up new journey opportunities it probably also suited the demands of the 1990s when BR was cost cutting and service frequencies were alot less than they are today but it was obvious the two track section between Deansgate & Piccadilly would feel the strain when circumstances changed and services were increased. Hence more services using Victoria again & the creation of the Ordsall Chord.

158756 said:

Would the Ordsall Chord have been funded if the plan was to only run 1tph on it? Would the reduction in TPE services at Piccadilly be acceptable to the various stakeholders? I'll also point out that the 'new' TPE service will be the skip-stopper, rather than anything new going beyond Manchester city centre.

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Answer to first question: Of course not.

But remember that the point of the Ordsall Chord is not 2tph to the Airport from Yorkshire per sé, but rather the capability to upspeed the basic 4tph city centre to city centre service by putting it into Victoria rather than Piccadilly.

At Victoria these trains need somewhere to go to get out of the way... so might as well be 2tph round the chord to the Airport, 2tph to Liverpool. All 4tph to Liverpool would probably be a capacity non-starter. Hey ho, there's your connectivity to Oxford Rd, Piccadilly and the Airport sorted out while you're at it.

Aren't Ordsall Chord services planned to ramp up further once it is bedded in and all the various timetables are updated due to the wiring and 319s all over the place? Or will it be 2tph TPE Airport and 1tph Calder Airport (each direction) for the foreseeable?

Any news on Salford Central's reinstated platforms? Is it wired through those lines (and indeed, is the Ordsall Chord wired?)

cle said:

Any news on Salford Central's reinstated platforms?
Is it wired through those lines?
(and indeed, is the Ordsall Chord wired?)

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Are they even funded? Possibly still going through planning?
Yes.
Yes.

I'm glad it's not just me that's a bit disappointed about the decision to take the transpennine express services away from Warrington. I'm by no means a daily commuter, but I do travel to York from Warrington semi-regularly, and this will add around 20 minutes and the faff of a change to a journey which already struggles to be competitive against the car for me. I understand that the changes are supposed to be for the greater good, but it will actually make the service worse in a number of ways for some journeys.

In fact, until the delayed introduction of the Chester to Leeds via Warrington Bank Quay service (in December if you believe everything you hear) it seems to me like the timetable changes are going to be a net loss for Warrington, unless I'm missing something.

GreatAuk said:

I'm glad it's not just me that's a bit disappointed about the decision to take the transpennine express services away from Warrington. I'm by no means a daily commuter, but I do travel to York from Warrington semi-regularly, and this will add around 20 minutes and the faff of a change to a journey which already struggles to be competitive against the car for me. I understand that the changes are supposed to be for the greater good, but it will actually make the service worse in a number of ways for some journeys.

In fact, until the delayed introduction of the Chester to Leeds via Warrington Bank Quay service (in December if you believe everything you hear) it seems to me like the timetable changes are going to be a net loss for Warrington, unless I'm missing something.

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Warrington does gain an airport service, which will be of benefit to some whilst the loss of the Yorkshire connection will be a detriment to others. So I suppose it kind of balances out & does open up quite a large new market for Manchester Airport with Warrington & parts of Cheshire getting an alternative to the M56 & the airport parking. But still, its a pain for me especially whilst we wait for the Chester service to kick in. I'm currently torn between getting the 10 minute connection off one of the airport services at Oxford Road & connecting with the EMT service heading for Liverpool, and hanging the sense of it and breaking the journey at Oxford Road / Piccadilly and partaking of a cold one or two and giving ourselves a bit more time. Once the Northern service kicks its probably a no-brainer with a change at Victoria onto that to Bank Quay, as at least a couple of the four TPEs will connect nicely with it (and will give me the option to choose between the 68 & MKV stock & the 802s when they land).