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Class 84 On The S & C

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RichmondCommu

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Hi everyone,

On the 23.8.78 Richmond Commu and myself are sat at Dent station as children when a south bound freight trundles through. The locomotive is 40139 and its hauling what looks like a block train of four wheeled tankers. However directly behind 40139 is 84009 and I'm curious to know why. I'm assuming here that the WCML was closed for engineering work.

All attempts at an explanation would be very welcome.

Kind regards,

Essex Ram.
 
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Mag_seven

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EssexRam said:
Hi everyone,

On the 23.8.78 Richmond Commu and myself are sat at Dent station as children when a south bound freight trundles through. The locomotive is 40139 and its hauling what looks like a block train of four wheeled tankers. However directly behind 40139 is 84009 and I'm curious to know why. I'm assuming here that the WCML was closed for engineering work.

All attempts at an explanation would be very welcome.

Kind regards,

Essex Ram.
Click to expand...

According to Wiki, 84009 was withdrawn on 03.08.78 which is just 20 days before your sighting. Before scrapping ( at Gwent Demolition, Margam) it went to "Research Department". If that was Derby then it could have been heading there?

84003 and 84009 passed to the Research Division: 84009 was rebuilt as a load bank tester and 84003 was used for spares. They were given departmental numbers ADB968021 and ADB968022 respectively, although the latter was never applied. In 1995 84009 was broken-up following withdrawal from its load bank duties; one cab of this locomotive was saved together with a quantity of spares.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_84#The_end
 
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RichmondCommu

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Mag_seven said:
According to Wiki, 84009 was withdrawn on 03.08.78 which is just 20 days before your sighting. Before scrapping ( at Gwent Demolition, Margam) it went to "Research Department". If that was Derby then it could have been heading there?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_84#The_end
Click to expand...

Ah that may well be the reason for seeing it at Dent so thanks for this. On the several occasions that we visited the line I cannot recall any other block freights so I'm assuming that the freight was diverted and that 84009 arrived at its destination via Crewe.
 
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jimm

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I thought this rang a bell - there is a picture of the self-same train approaching the north end of Burkett tunnel in On the Settle & Carlisle Route, by TG Flinders (published by Ian Allan in 1981). Unfortunately the caption does not offer any explanation of why the 84 was being towed.

The train is made up of black tanks which were 46t TTAs used by the Mond Division of ICI to transport caustic soda liquor from Runcorn to a range of destinations, including sites in Scotland, as block trains. See http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/icicausticsodatta/h1372A563#h1372a563

I share your suspicion that the train had simply been diverted off the WCML via the S&C on its way back to Runcorn, but I'm of the view the 84 was more likely just the booked engine for the working and stayed on for the ride south for some reason.
 
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jimm

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It's not unknown for 'withdrawn' locos to rise from the dead on occasion.

There are all sorts of possibilities.

The AC Locomotive Group say the move to the Research Department did not actually happen until 1979.

https://www.aclocogroup.co.uk/history84.php

And if something was Derby-bound via the Settle & Carlisle, I would have though a more obvious thing to do would be put it in one of the regular Carlisle-Healey Mills wagonload services, rather than in a block train going to Merseyside.
 
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Bevan Price

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Recalling the "reliability" of Class 84, I suggest it may have failed at Carlisle or in Scotland, and they were using a convenient way of getting rid of it.....
 
Far north 37

Far north 37

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Theres a interesting article in this months rail express of 84001 being dragged back to longsight from doncaster works over the woodhead route by 76040 an ac loco being dragged by a dc loco the only time this is believed to have occured.
 
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lyndhurst25

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From page 83 of the book "On the Settle & Carlisle Route" by T G Flinders:

"Powerless 84009 is ignominiously escorted towards the northern portal of Birkett tunnel by 40139 on the morning of 23 August 1978."
 

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Cowley

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lyndhurst25 said:
From page 83 of the book "On the Settle & Carlisle Route" by T G Flinders:

"Powerless 84009 is ignominiously escorted towards the northern portal of Birkett tunnel by 40139 on the morning of 23 August 1978."
Click to expand...
I wonder if the photographer knew it was coming, or whether he was just in the right place at the right time?
Great photo.
 
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