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Selhurst FL to West Croydon Spur

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03_179

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Bit of a bizarre request.

Having lived here for 28 years and knowing there once was a spur between the BML FL and West Croydon, can anyone tell me when it was closed and lifted please ?

Also has anyone got a decent visual plan of the lines before they were lifted on this bit AND the other lines that lead from the slow lines to Norwood Junction area.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Ianno87

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I believe under the 'Croydon Earthquake' remodelling of the layout in 1984.
 

03_179

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Thanks for that ... Never knew there was a signal box at Gloucester Road Junction.

There is an attached pdf near the bottom that has a full diagram.
 

Ianno87

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Pardon ? What's the Croydon Earthquake ?

I'm sure I never fell out of bed in this year ;)

The remodelling of the Windmill Bridge area in 1984 into its present layout (including flipping the Mains and Locals to their present arrangement through Croydon and Redhill) involved so much earthworks for new flyovers etc. that it became known as the 'Croydon Earthquake'; it was covered in a Modern Railways feature from the era.
 

03_179

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Thanks ... I've had a book and also discovered a line between Norwood Junction to Beckenham Junction lifted prior to 1966 !

Are there any records as to why this was lifts and when ?

Maybe Beeching Axe era ?
 

RichJF

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Also used to be a massive freight yard on the eastern side of Norwood Junction where a lot of new build houses are too!

The Beckenham spur used to run into Pl 7 at Norwood AFAIK.
 
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The line from Streatham Junction and Windmill Bridge Junction was quadrupled from 6 July 1903. The new platforms were on the east side. Thus what became known as the emergency spur had in fact been the original connection between the line to West Croydon and the line through Thornton Heath. The line through Selhurst was opened on 1 December 1862, though Stations were only at Thornton Heath (briefly Colliers Water Lane) and Streatham Common.

22 May 1865 was the day the chord between the West Croydon Line and Selhurst. The station itself had been opened on 1 May 1865.

My source is the very comprehensive Croydon’s Railways by MWG Skinner published in December 1985.
 

tsr

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The line from Streatham Junction and Windmill Bridge Junction was quadrupled from 6 July 1903. The new platforms were on the east side. Thus what became known as the emergency spur had in fact been the original connection between the line to West Croydon and the line through Thornton Heath. The line through Selhurst was opened on 1 December 1862, though Stations were only at Thornton Heath (briefly Colliers Water Lane) and Streatham Common.

22 May 1865 was the day the chord between the West Croydon Line and Selhurst. The station itself had been opened on 1 May 1865.

My source is the very comprehensive Croydon’s Railways by MWG Skinner published in December 1985.

Of course the original railway between Wandsworth-ish and Croydon-ish ran via Streatham Hill (as can be seen from the straight track alignment from Balham to Streatham Hill vice the sharp curve towards Streatham Common).

You can see similar evidence of the original track alignment at stations on the newer route too. For example, Thornton Heath and Streatham Common in particular have much, much straighter alignments on the Fast line platforms. The curvature of the Down Slow platform at Thornton Heath is magnificent!

(However, the station buildings at both are in preference of the Down Slow side of the station. You can also see another unusual feature in that many BML platforms north of East Croydon are numbered the opposite way round to what you’d expect - Platform 4 is for Up Fast traffic and Platform 1 for Down Slow traffic. Platform 1 at other stations in the London commuter belt will usually be for express London-bound traffic, of course.)

Pedantic note, though... I think you mean Streatham North Junction (or perhaps Balham) and not Streatham Junction, as so far as I know, Streatham Junction has never had quadruple track on any of its routes.
 
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Thanks for the extra detail tsr. Steatham Junction was the one mentioned in the book, though I’m not sure if that was an old name for the Junction at the country end of Balham, ie the Junction for Streatham or whether it means what is now Streatham North Junction.
 
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30907

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Thanks ... I've had a book and also discovered a line between Norwood Junction to Beckenham Junction lifted prior to 1966 !

Are there any records as to why this was lifts and when ?

Maybe Beeching Axe era ?

Info from AM Hajducki, Railways of Beckenham:
the Norwood Spur was closed to passengers in 1917 as a wartime economy . It reopened with Crystal Palace to Beckenham Jn (which had closed in 1915) in 1929, but as a single track goods line for Norwood-bound traffic only. It was very little used. (ISTR that the only significant traffic was coal from Kent to Waddon Marsh power station.)
 

Dr_Paul

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Thanks ... I've had a book and also discovered a line between Norwood Junction to Beckenham Junction lifted prior to 1966! Are there any records as to why this was lifts and when? Maybe Beeching Axe era ?

I read something recently -- I can't remember the title at the moment -- that mentions this connection, and it stated that it was barely ever used by the early 1960s. I'll see if I can find the reference.

It's still possible to go from Beckenham Junction to Norwood Junction, but one would have to take a rather circuitous route via Catford Bridge, Lewisham, Peckham Rye, Brixton, Clapham Junction, Streatham Hill and Crystal Palace.
 

Busaholic

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I read something recently -- I can't remember the title at the moment -- that mentions this connection, and it stated that it was barely ever used by the early 1960s. I'll see if I can find the reference.

It's still possible to go from Beckenham Junction to Norwood Junction, but one would have to take a rather circuitous route via Catford Bridge, Lewisham, Peckham Rye, Brixton, Clapham Junction, Streatham Hill and Crystal Palace.

Why not take the direct route from B J to C P, then change?
 

Southern

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Read somewhere a while back that the Norwood - Birkbeck line ran through what was later the car park of the "Goat House" pub, itself a long gone relic.
 

mmh

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Read somewhere a while back that the Norwood - Birkbeck line ran through what was later the car park of the "Goat House" pub, itself a long gone relic.

Oh, that got me thinking - despite living in the area for many years (although I only went in the Goat House a couple of times) I've realised I've never wondered what route the line must have taken!

It passing through what became the Goat House car park (which was big) fits - there's a small modern (80s?) housing estate called Camille Close where the line must have left the Birkbeck - Crystal Palace line. From there a curve to the main line would go past the former Goat House pub. The line must have been down an embankment and have a fairly steep gradient as it would need to be below street level by there to pass under Sunny Bank road for a junction with the main line. There's a large block of, again probably 80s/90s, flats where the junction must have been, which now I've come to think of it is clearly ex-railway land.

It all makes sense now! Thank you! :smile:

(I feel a little stupid, as I even viewed a house once on Camille Close which backed onto the railway, and never put two and two together)
 

Southern

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Glad to help :) Must say, it never really clicked with me either when I lived around there...then again, I was only a kid and more interested in the mainline literally on our doorstep. Shall never forget the 4am nuclear flask train, gave the building a real shake! o_O
 

Dr_Paul

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Why not take the direct route from B J to C P, then change?

I was thinking about freight workings, avoiding a reversal. Looking at the map again, there's a slightly less circuitous route through Penge East to Brixton and then via Clapham Junction, Streatham Hill and Crystal Palace as I outlined before. I'm pretty sure that this was a freight-only connection; I don't think that there were any passenger workings from Beckenham Junction to Norwood Junction (I'll check my old Bradshaw).
 

30907

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I was thinking about freight workings, avoiding a reversal. Looking at the map again, there's a slightly less circuitous route through Penge East to Brixton and then via Clapham Junction, Streatham Hill and Crystal Palace as I outlined before. I'm pretty sure that this was a freight-only connection; I don't think that there were any passenger workings from Beckenham Junction to Norwood Junction (I'll check my old Bradshaw).
See post #18
 
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