Printed Timetable availability

I called in at my local station (Altrincham) recently to pick up a timetable for the local line, but none were available in the information racks. I enquired at the ticket office and was informed that Northern Rail no longer issue printed timetables following the franchise renewal, and that this was a DoT policy enforced on all operators when franchises are being renewed to reduce paper waste. I was told that the only way to obtain a printed timetable was via the Internet, but that ticket offices themselves would not do this for customers. I would be interested in comments from the forum regarding this change in policy. I am aware that many bus companies have already stopped printing timetables, although TfGM still issue them.

At least full timetables (albeit error-strewn) can still be downloaded as pdf files from the National Rail Enquiries website for now. However, I can envisage a time when timetable information will only be provided for enquiries about a specific journey and it will no longer be possible to see a full timetable to have a more complete view of what services are available. I am aware that most airlines and some foreign rail companies (e.g. RENFE) already take this approach.

And why not?

Less and less people use proper timetables, and with the advent of mobile phones, you can quickly see (in many ways) what trains are departing and when.

Agreed, this is a good thing.

daodao said:

I called in at my local station (Altrincham) recently to pick up a timetable for the local line, but none were available in the information racks. I enquired at the ticket office and was informed that Northern Rail no longer issue printed timetables following the franchise renewal, and that this was a DoT policy enforced on all operators when franchises are being renewed to reduce paper waste. I was told that the only way to obtain a printed timetable was via the Internet, but that ticket offices themselves would not do this for customers. I would be interested in comments from the forum regarding this change in policy. I am aware that many bus companies have already stopped printing timetables, although TfGM still issue them.

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Which is blatantly wrong as if you’d have visited Manchester Piccadilly, all the timetables would have been available to pick up there.

Yes that is incorrect information, I hold a LNWR timetable.

daodao said:

...and that this was a DoT policy enforced on all operators when franchises are being renewed to reduce paper waste.

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That's nonsense. The year-old SWR have printed pocket timetables everywhere. I've also got a copy of LNER's and LNWR's.

daodao said:

...and that this was a DoT policy enforced on all operators when franchises are being renewed to reduce paper waste.

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That's nonsense. The year-old SWR have printed pocket timetables everywhere. I've also got a copy of LNER's and LNWR's.

daodao said:

I called in at my local station (Altrincham) recently to pick up a timetable for the local line, but none were available in the information racks. I enquired at the ticket office and was informed that Northern Rail no longer issue printed timetables following the franchise renewal, and that this was a DoT policy enforced on all operators when franchises are being renewed to reduce paper waste. I was told that the only way to obtain a printed timetable was via the Internet, but that ticket offices themselves would not do this for customers. I would be interested in comments from the forum regarding this change in policy. I am aware that many bus companies have already stopped printing timetables, although TfGM still issue them.

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I suspect that is incorrect - however it should happen. If a customer wants a printed timetable let them incur the costs by printing it at home.

Worth noting that pdf versions of the Northern Rail timetable leaflets are available in a couple of taps from Northern's website. There is no need to use National Rail.
There still seem to be plenty of timetable leaflets available at Manchester Piccadilly. (I am just fed up of getting stranded at random places around Lancashire when it emerges that some of the trains shown are still not running. Yes, I know I should check more.)

GWR still print their £8 book timetable, TPE still prints their three route timetables.

Its likely that some of the more smaller stations will have ran out and may not be getting anymore until the next (dreaded) timetable change.

whhistle said:

And why not?

Less and less people use proper timetables, and with the advent of mobile phones, you can quickly see (in many ways) what trains are departing and when.

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Apart from a printed timetables battery never goes flat !!

LeeLivery said:

That's nonsense. The year-old SWR have printed pocket timetables everywhere. I've also got a copy of LNER's and LNWR's.

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Same with GWR.

London Overground haven't had any for at least a year now.

Northern still issue printed timetables for all their routes. Is Altrincham station booking office run by Northern or by Transport for Manchester, if former then a complaint could be usefull if latter it could be that Northern do not send printed timetables to anywhere else other than the rail stations booking/enquiry offices - again a complaint could be useful. As an example none of the West Yorkshire bus stations have any rail timetables now.

DarloRich said:

I suspect that is incorrect - however it should happen. If a customer wants a printed timetable let them incur the costs by printing it at home.

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So because you don't use them then they shouldn't be provided for anyone else?

Print at home is not a realistic proposition, not only do domestic printers not have the ability to produce decent quality pocket booklets the formats that most TOCs currently use aren't even useful to print out useable A4 or A5 sheets correctly and don't get me started on VT who don't even provide a pdf anymore, instead using some stupid screen-reader format.

Flying Snail said:

So because you don't use them then they shouldn't be provided for anyone else?

Print at home is not a realistic proposition, not only do domestic printers not have the ability to produce decent quality pocket booklets the formats that most TOCs currently use aren't even useful to print out useable A4 or A5 sheets correctly and don't get me started on VT who don't even provide a pdf anymore, instead using some stupid screen-reader format.

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EDIT - each to their own. If you want an old fashioned printed timetable fine. It is old fashioned imo but knock yourself out

BTW - A smart phone can give you much more detail than a printed timetable. A printed timetable wont give you "live" info on performance.

DarloRich said:

EDIT - each to their own. If you want an old fashioned printed timetable fine. It is old fashioned imo but knock yourself out

BTW - A smart phone can give you much more detail than a printed timetable. A printed timetable wont give you "live" info on performance.

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You are very right. Even as someone who has yards of bookshelves dedicated to old timetables (for research purposes, you understand ) today's fistful of nicely printed SWR, GWR and CrossCountry leaflets were just so much waste paper as my itinerary fell apart due to late running and missed connections. RTT and other facilities on a mobile phone are just *so* useful in comparison.

I swapped to the online version a long time ago, but due to GTR making trains "vanish" from the timetable I've now got a paper copy of the timetables to make delay repay slightly easier.

Although I'm surprised that they're all now A4 vs the pocket timetables I was picking up 25 years ago when I was commuting to college

I spent my day on the Looe Branch referring to the paper timetable (I was visiting all the shacks and filming at various locations). Much better than running the battery on my phone down, especially when most of the places on the line always show up as N/R (No Report).

DarloRich said:

I suspect that is incorrect - however it should happen. If a customer wants a printed timetable let them incur the costs by printing it at home.

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What about people who have no facility to print at home?

DarloRich said:

EDIT - each to their own. If you want an old fashioned printed timetable fine. It is old fashioned imo but knock yourself out

BTW - A smart phone can give you much more detail than a printed timetable. A printed timetable wont give you "live" info on performance.

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But not much use when you cannot get a signal, as I found in some areas last week when using a North West Rover.

I prefer to have paper timetables for trip planning; much easier to consult when you have snail-speed broadband at home, and erratic connections for smart phones.

55z said:

Northern still issue printed timetables for all their routes. Is Altrincham station booking office run by Northern or by Transport for Manchester, if former then a complaint could be usefull if latter it could be that Northern do not send printed timetables to anywhere else other than the rail stations booking/enquiry offices - again a complaint could be useful. As an example none of the West Yorkshire bus stations have any rail timetables now.

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I thought it was run by Northern - the receipt I have for a rail ticket I purchased there a few months ago has the logo "Northern" printed at the top, and both the Northern Rail and National Rail Enquiry websites indicate that the station is run by Northern. Northern also monitor its opening hours performance. However, the TfGM website suggests that they run the Travelshop there.

6Gman said:

What about people who have no facility to print at home?

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That includes myself, which is why, although I have Internet access, I requested a paper copy.

Personally I also think paper timetables make it alot easier to look at connecting journeys. If a journey planner offers a perfectly valid connection but one I feel is too tight and I want to look at other options I have to go through and make another search, its far easier to move one column to the right, in addition to other points given by others re phone signal and battery mean I'll always prefer paper.

daodao said:

I am aware that many bus companies have already stopped printing timetables, although TfGM still issue them.

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National Express West Midlands / TfWM still issue timetables for most, if not all, routes, and they're widely available in the various travel shops at the major interchanges/bus stations. They also still produce great quality maps of each area, I recently went and collected one of each, all no doubt outdated though with the recent and upcoming changes.

Steve Harris said:

Apart from a printed timetables battery never goes flat !!

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Err... neither does my phone.
I either carry a charger, battery pack or don't play games to waste the battery if I know I may need it.

daodao said:

That includes myself, which is why, although I have Internet access, I requested a paper copy.

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6Gman said:

What about people who have no facility to print at home?

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Brutally - Buy a printer. They don't cost that much. So many things are now "print at home". Old fashioned ink jets cost about £50. A basic laser one costs about £75.

Honestly , if i was in charge of a TOC I would bin printed timetables immediately. They are a waste of money, a waste of resource and wasteful from an environmental point of view.

Steve Harris said:

Apart from a printed timetables battery never goes flat !!

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Plus you don’t ruin your eyes staring at a screen all day.

For my twopennethworth...

I totally get why some people would still prefer paper timetables over electronic, especially when planning complex trips. But on the flipside there is a balance to be struck, if fewer commuters are using paper ones as technology takes over, do TOCs / PTEs etc try to second guess how many they need to produce in future as demand wains, & at what point do they have to conclude that they are simply printing thousands only be stuck in boxes or displays until they expire and head straight for the recycling bin? As someone who works in the public sector, notorious for waste, I can only say that over the years I have watched probably millions of pounds worth of printing head straight for the bin, and that is just in my small corner of the world. I can't imagine private sector bosses looking happily at thousands of unused timetables being chucked away.

So what are the options?

DarloRich said:

Brutally - Buy a printer. They don't cost that much. So many things are now "print at home". Old fashioned ink jets cost about £50. A basic laser one costs about £75.

Honestly , if i was in charge of a TOC I would bin printed timetables immediately. They are a waste of money, a waste of resource and wasteful from an environmental point of view.

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Actually box clever and you can pick one up for £25-£30 (I got one recently for my mum at £28, colour HP printer / copier with enough ink to keep her going for a few months!). So yes, printing at home is getting cheaper all the time, especially if you are able to source third party inks that are compatible with them.

Failing that, perhaps TOCs could offer to print timetables on demand for a small cost? OK it would need some contracts setting up with printing firms (preferably local ones who might be more willing to do small numbers of one-off requests, if any TOC would like to known more my son-in-law would be more than happy to talk to them!!), some form of on/off-line ordering process, but it is not a particularly different process to set up. This way people, groups, organisations that still wanted the could order set amounts and distribute them to those wanting them.

However, in this ever changing world I can't help but wonder how much longer they are going to be feasible for. Bus companies are getting more active in changing timetables up and down the country, and with so many changes still potentially lined up for the future on the rails, I imagine it may get to a stage where it is just simply too much work for too little gain to keep paper / printable timetables up to date and people have to make the move to electronic to keep informed?

Everywhere I go I usually see racks of printed timetables. I imagine they're still popular with long distance commuters who have a regular journey, but not necessarily taking the same train, who would carry one around in their handbag/daysac.

Personally I rarely use them. Apart from anything else, when I plan a journey I'm usually doing it from a computer, and it's easier to look up journey times on National Rail Enquiries and print the pdf. Alternatively if I'm out, then I use the App which is more flexible

No problem getting hold of East Midlands trains timetable leaflets, including those for the Derby blockage. Northern timetables for Lincoln-Sheffield and Cleethorpes-Barton on Humber found in racks at Lincoln recently. Greater Anglia timetable booklets found at Liverpool Street recently.
Timetables often reveal connections which NR Enquiries doesn't, such us at Doncaster where it is perfectly reasonable to get off a York etc bound train and get into the Leeds train which has followed it from Kings Cross, a brief walk across the island platform is perfectly feasible, but obviously not within the NR connectional allowance.

whhistle said:

Err... neither does my phone.
I either carry a charger, battery pack or don't play games to waste the battery if I know I may need it.

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I prefer to travel light rather than carry a load of batteries, chargers and general rubbish around with me