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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

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si404

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It's about operational efficiency of running a through train that doesn't have many end to end passengers but serves several markets on its journey.
Indeed, hence why they were looking at via HW, rather than the quicker via Am route from Aylesbury: because there's more scope for local journeys from Winslow, Bletchley and MK on that route.

It depends on timetables, but MK-Wycombe might be quicker via change-at-Bicester than change-at-Aylesbury.
 
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Indeed, hence why they were looking at via HW, rather than the quicker via Am route from Aylesbury: because there's more scope for local journeys from Winslow, Bletchley and MK on that route.

It depends on timetables, but MK-Wycombe might be quicker via change-at-Bicester than change-at-Aylesbury.

In that case why not offer the Amersham route to MK. Again not for the through traffic but the intermediate traffic?
 

Bletchleyite

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Thanks that seems perfectly reasonable if Aylesbury has the platforms to do it.

I'd imagine it does, unusually for the UK it has a depot right outside the station so you could always send trains out there for a bit if they started to stack up.

As for running it through the upside is, XC style, overlapping intermediate journeys, but the downside is possibly reliability.
 

bspahh

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cle

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Hopefully the Aylesbury decision is just a placeholder for now and it gets reconnected to Marylebone properly and the project becomes a reality. Even with some improvements on the single line, short as it is.
 
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mr_jrt

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The Cambridge Independent newspaper has a story (not on its web site just yet) based on suggestions from a group CamBedRailRoad for the Bedford-Cambridge route to follow the route of the A428

This has some schematics of their proposed "more costly" route.
http://www.geag.org.uk/files/cambedrailroad-booklet-v6.pdf

In particular it looks to be a bit more hilly than the Foxton-Sandy route. http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/Cambourne-3817368/

I disagree with their Bedford routing, but other than that I'm very much onboard as it's pretty much what I've been advocating since day 1.
 
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absolutelymilk

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Are there any indications of how long the TWAO will take to be granted?
 
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Tobbes

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The Cambridge Independent newspaper has a story (not on its web site just yet) based on suggestions from a group CamBedRailRoad for the Bedford-Cambridge route to follow the route of the A428

This has some schematics of their proposed "more costly" route.
http://www.geag.org.uk/files/cambedrailroad-booklet-v6.pdf

In particular it looks to be a bit more hilly than the Foxton-Sandy route. http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/Cambourne-3817368/

I've consistently advocated finding a route to serve Camborne and coming into Cambridge from the north on the former Huntingdon line alignment with the busway moved, in order to better serve the A428 corridor which is where lots of the housing growth will go, and directly serve the Cambridge Sceience Park. Under this scenario, Cambridge North would have two more platforms on the Oxford line, and trains from Oxford/Bedford would run through to terminate either at Cambridge South or to directly serve Stansted.

Yes, the cost would be higher, but it needs to be compared with the additional public transport infrastructure on the A428 which will be needed anyway to support housing growth.
 

bspahh

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I've consistently advocated finding a route to serve Camborne and coming into Cambridge from the north on the former Huntingdon line alignment with the busway moved, in order to better serve the A428 corridor which is where lots of the housing growth will go, and directly serve the Cambridge Sceience Park. Under this scenario, Cambridge North would have two more platforms on the Oxford line, and trains from Oxford/Bedford would run through to terminate either at Cambridge South or to directly serve Stansted.

I don't think a modern heavy rail line could use the guided busway route past the Science Park. There isn't space for a bridge near Cambridge Regional College https://goo.gl/maps/RcQngd22Cby or Milton Road https://goo.gl/maps/4X9KZrDgEbK2 and you won't get new level crossings.
 

si404

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In that case why not offer the Amersham route to MK. Again not for the through traffic but the intermediate traffic?
Discussed upthread:
- via Amersham will need train lengthening (and already runs longer trains off-peak) by the time it is open, so lots of shifting around air in empty rolling stock north of Aylesbury.
- the need for tripcocks on the stock so it can run on the LUL tracks
- less scope for through-Aylesbury traffic than going via HW (more people would change off an MK via Am at Aylesbury onto HW trains than vice versa), rendering the extra effort not worth it.

It's an easy termination without much effort to make happen, or that much inconvenience, and can be fixed at a later date (cf the Elizabeth line which is to open with a better service than specified) should the improvements south of Aylesbury occur.
 

Tobbes

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I don't think a modern heavy rail line could use the guided busway route past the Science Park. There isn't space for a bridge near Cambridge Regional College https://goo.gl/maps/RcQngd22Cby or Milton Road https://goo.gl/maps/4X9KZrDgEbK2 and you won't get new level crossings.

If the Inspectorate really won't go for two new level crossings (which is in effect what already exists, albeit without gates), then you could put the line in a cutting as proposed for the Stratford - Honeybourne reinstatement. Taken to it's logical conlusion, the railway could go in a cut and cover tunnel from the north side of the A14 to the eastern side of Milton Road, with the busway (if it is still required), sitting on top.
 

Tobbes

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There’s loads of space. You just need to fire up the bulldozers.

And what are you thoughts on a northerly route for EWR, @Bald Rick ? If it were in place, I'd like to use it to allow for the reinstatement to facilitate regional housing development not just along the A428 but also on the Histon - Oakington - Chatteris - March axis.
 

richieb1971

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Wow lines on maps.

As far as Bedford is concerned, the maps show exactly how I envisaged it. Considering they moved north from Sandy to St Neots, its surprising they never considered coming in from north of Bedford Midland station like some folks proposed on here.
 

Bald Rick

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And what are you thoughts on a northerly route for EWR, @Bald Rick ? If it were in place, I'd like to use it to allow for the reinstatement to facilitate regional housing development not just along the A428 but also on the Histon - Oakington - Chatteris - March axis.

I haven’t paid too much attention to EWR central section, as I’m of the opinion that finding a route will prove to be a political nettle that no-one will want to grasp. Wherever it goes it won’t be wanted (because of the housing it will bring), and wherever it doesn’t go will feel ‘left out’.
 
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Tobbes

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I have to paid much attention to EWR central section, as I’m of the opinion that finding a route will prove to be a political nettle that no-one will want to grasp. Wherever it goes it won’t be wanted (because of the housing it will bring), and wherever it doesn’t go will feel ‘left out’.

So what's your best guess? And is a northerly route via Cambourne feasible in engineering terms?
 

sammorris

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Wow lines on maps. As far as Bedford is concerned, the maps show exactly how I envisaged it. Considering they moved north from Sandy to St Neots, its surprising they never considered coming in from north of Bedford Midland station like some folks proposed on here.
It's certainly surprisingly detailed - enough I'd have thought to cause a bit of trouble!

Just looking at maps, I'm unsure why the old alignment through Bedford (...other than the need for a reverse at Bedford Midland, which admittedly would be a slow process) isn't the obvious option. It all seems to have been kept clear of development, other than the new rowing lake - which if you're going north along the A421/A428 corridor I wouldn't have thought mattered. The path that now runs along the former rail route perhaps could still run alongside the EWR track?

The other thing I don't quite get about their proposals is St Neots South station - I really can't imagine even the most local trains on the ECML routinely stopping at two stations in St Neots. In reality most of the demand for access to the ECML would be local from Bedford and could probably be served by a new Bedford-St Neots (existing station)-Peterborough service, branching off the EWR line. Cambridge already has pretty convenient access to Peterborough via March, and Oxford or MK residents would still find it quicker to get to most northern ECML destinations via a change in Birmingham.
 

richieb1971

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Trains most likely wouldnt stop at both St Neots stations. I'd envisage that the current station will be shutdown if these plans go ahead.

Nobody has mentioned if these crossovers will incorperate some kind of slip lanes so trains can join or exit EWR at these locations. At Bletchley you can obviously go north but not south (Currently). At Bedford you can go north but not south (Currently). So it would make a little bit of sense to make a southern spur off of EWR on the ECML.
 

Tobbes

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Just looking at maps, I'm unsure why the old alignment through Bedford (...other than the need for a reverse at Bedford Midland, which admittedly would be a slow process) isn't the obvious option.

A good question: avoiding the reversal is a good idea, both from a time saving and also from a public perception perspective. I wonder if is because you'd presumably have a significant time saving for express services if they can scoot through on a straighter alignment; unelectrified it will be quite tough to meet the target Ox/Cambs times with a reversal at Bedford I'd have thought. But this is also why I'd want to look very closely at a South Bedford Parkway station where EWR passes under MML.

The other thing I don't quite get about their proposals is St Neots South station - I really can't imagine even the most local trains on the ECML routinely stopping at two stations in St Neots. In reality most of the demand for access to the ECML would be local from Bedford and could probably be served by a new Bedford-St Neots (existing station)-Peterborough service, branching off the EWR line. Cambridge already has pretty convenient access to Peterborough via March, and Oxford or MK residents would still find it quicker to get to most northern ECML destinations via a change in Birmingham.

I guess it depends if there's going to be lots of housing built between Sandy and St Neots - if so, then a station near Little Barford would make sense for commuting to London- and to Cambridge, with Peterborough semi-fasts calling at all three stations. Given that there will be a limited window between EWR opening and HS2 Phase 2b opening, there won't be that long a period before many of the LDHS services migrate from ECML to HS2, so there will be substantial additional capacity on the ECML Fasts, presumably.

And in any event, even if you stayed on the old formation towards Blunham, you're going to have to swing north around Sandy before turning south to get to Sandy station unless you feel like CPO lots of houses and flattening a high school, which feels like a £100m decision (£50m for a new high school and £50m to CPO the houses) - that buys a lot agricultural land for a new route.

Moreover, the ECML at that point runs on an embankment, suggesting that a new station could be a HL/LL affair where EWR passes under the ECML, with platforms aligned to produce the straightest alignment, avoiding the need for two (slow) 90 degree turns to align an east-west railway with a north-south one for parallel platforms.
 

a good off

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The Cambridge Independent newspaper has a story (not on its web site just yet) based on suggestions from a group CamBedRailRoad for the Bedford-Cambridge route to follow the route of the A428

This has some schematics of their proposed "more costly" route.
http://www.geag.org.uk/files/cambedrailroad-booklet-v6.pdf

In particular it looks to be a bit more hilly than the Foxton-Sandy route. http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/Cambourne-3817368/

This CamBedRailRoad has been set up by a couple of NIMBY Lib Dem councillors who are trying to divert any potential routing of the central section away from the villages of Gamlingay, The Hatleys and Wrestlingworth.
 
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yorkie

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Can we please keep this discussion on the subject of East-West Rail: Progress and updates

For politics, please use the General discussion area instead.

Thanks
 

Tobbes

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This CamBedRailRoad has been set up by a couple of NIMBY Lib Dem councillors who are trying to divert any potential routing of the central section away from the villages of Gamlingay, The Hatleys and Wrestlingworth.

Really? Very professional for Nimbyism. Which councillors?
 

Andyjs247

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Will any of the proposed routes physically connect to the ECML? I’d like to see a west to north connection either at Sandy or St Neots if the A421/A428 corridor was chosen. I think the latter has a lot of merit.
 

Tobbes

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Will any of the proposed routes physically connect to the ECML? I’d like to see a west to north connection either at Sandy or St Neots if the A421/A428 corridor was chosen. I think the latter has a lot of merit.

East to North, as well - a St Neots route is likely to be competitive timewise to Peterborough compared with via Ely and March, and Peterborough - Huntingdon - Sandy/St Neots - Cambourne - Cambs would be a useful commuter flow.
 

camflyer

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Will any of the proposed routes physically connect to the ECML? I’d like to see a west to north connection either at Sandy or St Neots if the A421/A428 corridor was chosen. I think the latter has a lot of merit.

Whatever route is (eventually!) selected then I doubt it would make economic sense without a connection to the ECML at Sandy or St Neots since one of the main aims of the project is to make east-west travel by rail easier by avoiding connections through London.

I agree the A428 route seems to make a lot of sense though any new route through the north of Cambridge might be just too expensive
 

Muzer

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Have I missed something? I can't see any lines on maps for EWR Central section. Or are people referring to the CamBedRailRoad route?
 

bspahh

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Have I missed something? I can't see any lines on maps for EWR Central section. Or are people referring to the CamBedRailRoad route?

There are lots of lines on maps in the official engineering report on the route selection https://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/wp-...entral-Section-Engineering-Summary-Report.pdf

In that, route C1-9 is the closest to the CamBedRailRoad one, although it comes into Cambridge from the South. The C2-2 route was the one that they recommended, which goes South of Sandy.

The CamBedRailRoad says how their route goes near more of the planned and existing housing, than the ones to the South. Given that East West rail are looking to fund the railway in a large part from building loads of houses, I don't think they will look on that as a positive feature.
 

a good off

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Source: Gamlingay Parish Council Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/568981216499391/posts/1863152423748924/

Train line near Gamlingay anyone?

Invitation from Hatley Parish Council. Gamlingay Parish Council representaives will be attending.

Hatley Parish Council has invited the Chairman of the CamBedRailRoad, Sebastian Kindersley, to give a presentation to the Council and residents of Hatley regarding the proposed East West railway line which will link Oxford to Cambridge. As you may be aware the preferred route is via Bedford, which will see a corridor linking Bedford to Cambridge via Sandy. This preferred route will see the four track train line running close to or through our parishes. Therefore the aim of the presentation is to provide a greater understanding of the impact of this route on our parishes and to consider possible alternative routes which offer greater sustainability.

The presentation will take place during the Extraordinary Meeting of Hatley Parish Council on Tuesday 14th August at 7.30 pm in Hatley Village Hall. We would like to extend an invitation to your Parish Councillors and any of your residents, landowners in particular, that you feel may be significantly impacted by the proposed railway line. Please can you confirm, where possible, who will be attending from your Parish so that we can manage numbers. This is a public meeting but spaces will be limited.

More on this....

Are you aware that the Parish you live in is threatened by one of the four current options for the East West Rail link?

East West Rail? What’s that?

In 1967 British Rail closed the Varsity Line which ran trains between Cambridge and Oxford. Ever since local communities have wanted it to be re-opened and this is now a Government ambition because it is relying on the so-called “Knowledge Arc” between Cambridge and Oxford to drive forward UK plc with the knowledge-based economy.

…and?

And the reason why this has come up is that there is a missing link in the EW line – the bit that links Bedford to Cambridge. The Government has tasked various bodies over the years to examine this and come up with a plan.

A plan? Sounds good….

Yes and no. The most recent plan accepts that there are two corridors that could provide the missing link across the countryside. The M corridor runs Bedford – Hitchin – Royston - Cambridge (North South approx.) and the C corridor runs East-West from Sandy to Cambridge (approx.). The latest report says the C corridor is most suitable and sets out 4 potential lines within that area.

Not great if you live in the C corridor then?

The four options in the C corridor have a preferred line – called C2.2 – running through Wrestlingworth, Tadlow, the Mordens, Abington Piggotts, Shingay-cum-Wendy, Bassingbourn, Whaddon and joining the Royston line at Shepreth. The other three options run through or nearby Gamlingay, the Gransdens, the Hatleys etc.

Eeeek. Assume I’m a NIMBY and don’t want this – what do I do?

Most residents are completely unaware of the C corridor and the proposal to run a national high speed trainline through the open countryside – and many are unaware of the property blight this is already causing. Not unreasonably those who are aware are somewhat concerned and some of them have formed a group which has looked into this issue in some depth.

A group?

CBRR is made up of local residents and stands for CambBedRailRoad.

Roads? Where did that come in? This is about railways isn’t it?

While the missing link in local infrastructure exists on the railway it also exists on the road network. Government wants an Expressway (=Motorway or at the very least a dual carriageway) running between Cambridge and Oxford. Most of it already exists but the missing link – again – is between Black Cat on the A1 and the Caxton Gibbet roundabout – approximately the same place where the missing link for the railway is.

But the A428 is much further north than the C corridor?

Yes it is. CBRR believes that we should be using intelligence and joined up thinking to produce an intelligent and joined up piece of national infrastructure which doesn’t damage the area and which has far more benefit than anything in the C corridor. To that end CBRR has plotted an alternative rail route, which links with the proposed dualling of the A428.

Tell me more…I’m listening…

The C corridor preferred route links nothing to nothing but does open up the possibility of a new station (and therefore a new town) at Bassingbourn Barracks. It also duplicates the Train track between Royston and Cambridge – but would require expensive and time-consuming dualling of the railway line from south of Cambridge into the main station there.

OK – so it’s bad, I get it. What’s your bright idea then?

CBRR argues that a better way is to build a new line from Bedford along the A428 corridor to Cambridge North station. This corridor is where most of the current and proposed development is going and would have several substantial advantages.

So – walk me through it…

Leaving the first North/South mainline at Bedford a new station would be built at Bedford South for the new town of Wixams. Moving north east the line would then meet another N/S main line at St Neots – again with a new station at Wintringham Park (a proposed new development set to nearly double the size of St Neots). Moving along the corridor there would then be another new station at Cambourne to serve Cambourne and the new village at Bourn Airfield (plus Papworth) before heading northwards to skirt around Northstowe (another station at another New Town) and Waterbeach (again, a new town) before joining the third N/S line and dropping into Cambridge North.

I see – anything else?

Yes. If a small chord was built across the end of Coldham’s Common trains could then continue to Felixstowe and the East Coast ports. A further chord northwards could take trains onto the King’s Lynn line. The new station at Addenbrookes could be built quicker as access from the north on this new line would mean that the doubling of the track south of Cambridge would not be necessary and – lastly – any light rail commuter option locally could use the same tracks.

That must be good news for all the people who live along the A 428 and in St Neots?

Absolutely. Given the enormous level of development agreed and planned along the A428 the need for a connected rail link is imperative if the roads are not to simply jam up and stop working. CBRR considers upwards of 100,000 more residents in the area (not to mention the traffic from people coming in or going out to work) means rail is the only serious alternative to gridlock.

Well – this all sound marvellous. Is it much more expensive tho?

It is likely to cost more as it is a longer route than C2.2. However the economic value would far outweigh that of C2.2’s because it links current and future centres of population growth, it links three national N/S main corridors and of course, it provides the ‘missing link’. So if you are a nurse at Addenbrookes or a teacher in Bedford but can only afford a starter home in Northstowe this line will give you a decent public transport alternative to your car.

Sign me up!

CBRR has made presentations to over 80 local Councillors, our MP and the Mayor and we are now starting to publicise this issue more widely. While this is a project that is spoken of as many years away in fact the decisions to press ahead with the C corridor are imminent and we are anxious to get the powers that be to consider this plan as a viable alternative option. Likewise the decision on a preferred route for the A428 dualling is expected in the last quarter 2018 and we are anxious that this transport corridor is delivered using joined-up intelligent decisions.

What can I do?

Your Parish or Town Council has been invited to host a presentation either at a Council meeting or a public meeting in association with neighbouring Councils. Please consider coming. If you would like to offer more detailed support please contact [email protected]. Please also consider writing to your MP to show your support for this.
———————-

Source: Wrestlingworth Parish Council Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/133053967226/posts/10155694254277227/


Wrestlingworth Parish Council Facebook page:

If you live between Bedford, Sandy, Biggleswade, St Neots, Royston and Cambridge this is for you.

This evening at Hatley Village Hall we heard a presentation given by Sebastian Kindersley (Cambridgeshire County Councillor) and James Paxman. CamBed RailRoad (CBRR) are a recently formed group who want to urgently rally support for a northern route to be considered as a proposal for the Bedford to Cambridge element of the Oxford to Cambridge rail link. The decision for this will be made by early 2019.

The CamBed RailRoad link would specifically draw together the new communities at Wixams (Bedford) together with the new developments at St Neots, Bourne Airfield, Cambourne, Northstowe. The rail link would be closely aligned to the new road expressway. The expressed wish of CamBed RailRoad is to ensure these new communities have access from home to work, schools, town centres and services. This element of the community infrastructure would ensure sustainability for our wider population during a period of rapid expansion and pressure on our existing roads, towns, railway stations and inevitably parking facilities.

The East West Rail propose a route for the Bedford to Cambridge rail link to be via Sandy affecting the communities adjacent to Potton, Sutton, the Hatleys and Gamlingay. It is not apparent that there are stations proposed on this route with no added value to the community only the disruption by the railway of valuable farmland and further loss to our countryside especially our local ancient woodland habitats.

If you would like more information please contact [email protected]. A publication by Cambed RailRoad 'integrates rail and road' is available. If you want to know more do contact your Parish Council, District and County Councillors and most importantly please write to your MP. The clock is ticking for a decision to be made on the expressway route by the last quarter of 2018 and for the rail link early in 2019!

CBRR's primary aim is to be able to put forward a northern route to be properly assessed in a cost-benefit analysis against the East West route through our area.
———————-

Other further reading:

https://www.biggleswadetoday.co.uk/...outes-that-could-hit-local-villages-1-8608437


“The C routes deliver nothing but blight along the corridor” as quoted by Cllr Kindersley.


Cllr Kindersley and the local Parish Councils don’t even try to deny this is not about NIMBYism. It will be of no surprise to learn that according to the the council website, Cllr Kindersley lives in one of the potentially affected villages... Who knew? ;)
 
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