Dispute over cat "ownership": police say it's a "civil matter"

Waldgrun · 12 Sep 2018

One of my cats went missing, and I later found out that it was found in a neighbours garden by some visitors, who thought the cat looked ill and removed it, yes the cat was ill and was being treated by us. They didn't think to seek out the owner, I feared the cat had been lost on the road. After a weeks searching found out the truth. Contacted the visitors, who refused to return the cat to us, claiming that we had ill treated it, (Why would we be giving it meds worth pounds).
Contacted the Police, guess what Civil matter! I don't like to say it but the Cat is our property, I now feel like withholding the Police part of my council tax!
Anyone any thoughts.

RailUK Forums

GusB · 12 Sep 2018

Is the cat microchipped with your details? Should be fairly easy to prove "ownership" if that's the case.

Waldgrun · 12 Sep 2018

GusB said:
Is the cat microchipped with your details? Should be fairly easy to prove "ownership" if that's the case.

Regret not cat is a rescued feral farm kitten, never thought it would live longer! But plenty of pictures.

Bertie the bus · 12 Sep 2018

I may be wrong but my understanding is legally cats aren’t “owned” which is why there is no requirement to report running one over and cat’s “owners” aren’t liable for any damage their pet causes.

DarloRich · 12 Sep 2018

Wow. Just wow. Expecting the police to sort out an issue with a cat. Ffs. They haven't enough policemen to fight actual crime. The lack of perspective is astounding

Waldgrun · 12 Sep 2018

DarloRich said:
Wow. Just wow. Expecting the police to sort out an issue with a cat. Ffs. They haven't enough policemen to fight actual crime. The lack of perspective is astounding

That's what you may think, but when I called on the cat-knappers, threaten with dogs. I have perspective, have something taken from you see have you would feel!

GusB · 12 Sep 2018

Waldgrun said:
Regret not cat is a rescued feral farm kitten, never thought it would live longer! But plenty of pictures.

I somehow don't think you'll have much luck, to be honest. As DarloRich says, the police are fairly stretched as it is. If you'd had a prized pedigree Persian with all the paperwork, you'd possibly be in a better situation.

Bertie the bus said:
I may be wrong but my understanding is legally cats aren’t “owned” which is why there is no requirement to report running one over and cat’s “owners” aren’t liable for any damage their pet causes.

I've heard it said that cats don't have owners - they have staff!

DarloRich · 12 Sep 2018

Waldgrun said:
That's what you may think, but when I called on the cat-knappers, threaten with dogs. I have perspective, have something taken from you see have you would feel!

What? Goodness me.

Waldgrun · 12 Sep 2018

Bertie the bus said:
I may be wrong but my understanding is legally cats aren’t “owned” which is why there is no requirement to report running one over and cat’s “owners” aren’t liable for any damage their pet causes.

Sorry cats are owned, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9968640/How-the-law-views-cats.html
and this is of interest:https://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/block/EG13_Cats_and_the_law.pdf

BluePenguin · 12 Sep 2018

In the eyes of the law animals ARE seen as property. Your cat has been stolen from you. As the police said this is a civil matter so you can sue in court if you choose to. There was an episode of Judge Rinder about this - I am more inclined to believe a barrister over forum members.....

causton · 12 Sep 2018

Waldgrun said:
Sorry cats are owned, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9968640/How-the-law-views-cats.html

First line is "The law regards cats as property"!

yorkie · 12 Sep 2018

It seems to be quite complicated...
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/your-pets-and-the-law.html

Cats and the law
Cats are regarded rather differently to dogs under the law, as they are considered to have the 'right to roam,'...

Bertie the bus · 12 Sep 2018

Waldgrun said:
Sorry cats are owned, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9968640/How-the-law-views-cats.html
and this is of interest:https://www.cats.org.uk/uploads/documents/block/EG13_Cats_and_the_law.pdf

There you go then. Go back to the police station and tell them they're wrong and to do their job.

Bletchleyite · 12 Sep 2018

DarloRich said:
Wow. Just wow. Expecting the police to sort out an issue with a cat. Ffs. They haven't enough policemen to fight actual crime. The lack of perspective is astounding

Would you expect the Police to attend had your television set been stolen? It's not a lot different.

Bletchleyite · 12 Sep 2018

BluePenguin said:
In the eyes of the law animals ARE seen as property. Your cat has been stolen from you. As the police said this is a civil matter so you can sue in court if you choose to. There was an episode of Judge Rinder about this - I am more inclined to believe a barrister over forum members.....

Theft is a criminal matter, and the cat has been taken with the intention to permanently deprive, i.e. stolen.

DarloRich · 12 Sep 2018

Bertie the bus said:
There you go then. Go back to the police station and tell them they're wrong and to do their job.

Followed swiftly by the police telling him to persist off. There is no way this should be any form of priority for the old bill. A lost cat one perso s word agaisnt another and a cat that might easily have simply done one

I am tempted to file this in the never happened file.

Bletchleyite said:
Would you expect the Police to attend had your television set been stolen? It's not a lot different.

It is entirely different. My tv can't walk off of its own accord. Goodness me.

Bletchleyite · 12 Sep 2018

DarloRich said:
It is entirely different. My tv can't walk off of its own accord. Goodness me.

The issue isn't that, the issue is refusal to return.

DarloRich · 12 Sep 2018

Bletchleyite said:
The issue isn't that, the issue is refusal to return.

Prove it. The cat came here if it's own accord and keeps coming back perhaps because we look after it better. You should be speaking to him. Look at the state of it etc etc etc.

Your word against mine and the police have bigger things to worry about. THAT is the issue!

Joe Paxton · 12 Sep 2018

Bletchleyite said:
Would you expect the Police to attend had your television set been stolen? It's not a lot different.

At present, no, I wouldn't have a great expectation of the plod attending...

Up_Tilt_390 · 13 Sep 2018

Now I love cats, and I have three of them myself which I love very much and would hate for them to be stolen from me. But unfortunately, a cat is a natural explorer, and arguably the least domesticated of all pets, so if it wanders to someone else's back garden there's nothing to be done. Since your case here is a refusal to return it, I am afraid I'll have to set aside my love of cats in this case and suggest you take this up in the best way you can through a civil matter. The police have other things to do with their time, and the fact they won't get involved in this is not really a testament to how useful they are. You're right to be angry, but it's not really a pass to "withhold the police part of your council tax".

BluePenguin · 13 Sep 2018

I know this is a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion but please can everyone have some sensitively for the OP? The cat is theirs morally and legally and telling them that it does not belong to them is not helpful.

Cats are personal property which are either purchased or acquired for free/donation. If someone did not own a cat then it would not be theirs to insure would it?

As someone who owns 2 cats, both of which have been hit by cars and costed several thousand pounds in vet bills, I feel the OPs pain. Nobody can understand how it feels until they go through it themselves. Although only animals, cats are a part of the family in my house and in many homes around the country.

Everyone is entitled to their interpretation of the law although in this case it is black and white that cats belong to someone, hence can be insured and branded like any other property be it a car or a horse.

It would be mature of us to focus on providing the OP with advice from this point forward instead of arguing back and fourth about what the police are there for. Yes this is a complicated civil matter but this is not the way forward a tall.

BluePenguin · 13 Sep 2018

Bertie the bus said:
I may be wrong but my understanding is legally cats aren’t “owned” which is why there is no requirement to report running one over and cat’s “owners” aren’t liable for any damage their pet causes.

The reverse is most certainly true though - anyone who injures a cat is responsible accident or not. You cannot teach a toddler not to run into the road anymore than a cat. It is your responsibility to be prepared to break and your fault should you fail to stop and injury occurs. Full stop.

Bertie the bus · 13 Sep 2018

That is absolute nonsense.

BluePenguin · 13 Sep 2018

Here is a quote from the link above:

Link said:
The Theft Act of 1968 covers companion animals, and if your cat or dog is stolen then you have the same legal rights of recourse as you would if anything else you owned was illegally taken. In an instance where an animal is lost or strays, the pet is still considered to be the property of the original owner, and anyone who finds a lost pet must make reasonable endeavours to do everything possible to locate the original owner and return their pet to them before any provision for permanent re-homing can occur. The Criminal Damage Act of 1971 also considers it an offence in contravention of this act if any person deliberately harms or kills an animal belonging to another person. This is in addition to the Animal Welfare Act clauses as stated above..

BluePenguin · 13 Sep 2018

Bertie the bus said:
That is absolute nonsense.

See the above. You opinion and the law are very different things.

Bertie the bus · 13 Sep 2018

See what above? What on earth has trying to find the owner of a lost cat got to do with being responsible if you hit one whilst driving? Bizarre.

BluePenguin · 13 Sep 2018

Bertie the bus said:
See what above? What on earth has trying to find the owner of a lost cat got to do with being responsible if you hit one whilst driving? Bizarre.

See the links provided to you and read the contents of them. I was making a point that hitting one is damaging property. In the sense that the OP is the owner of their cat even if the visitors disagree, plus they made no effort to find out who the owner was and assumed that it was not being cared for without learning the fact that the owner was medicating their cat, at expense too!

Bertie the bus · 13 Sep 2018

BluePenguin said:
See the links provided to you and read the contents of them.

You appear to live in some strange, fantasy land and I have no intention of continuing with this. Drivers are not considered responsible if they run over a cat. That's a fact and it certainly isn't considered criminal damage should it happen.

I also have sympathy for the OP and as I have stated he should return to the police station and request it is recorded as a crime. There is, however, virtually no chance of the police actually doing anything.

BluePenguin · 13 Sep 2018

Bertie the bus said:
You appear to live in some strange, fantasy land and I have no intention of continuing with this. Drivers are not considered responsible if they run over a cat. That's a fact and it certainly isn't considered criminal damage should it happen.

I also have sympathy for the OP and as I have stated he should return to the police station and request it is recorded as a crime. There is, however, virtually no chance of the police actually doing anything.

What fantasy land? I live in the same country so must abide by the same laws as you. I am glad you are stopping as it is nearly 1am and I can't be bothered either. Anyone who hits something whilst driving is responsible. I am disgusted that you dare to claim that your submission is a fact. You would have an entirely different view if your animal was carelessly hit by a vehicle I can tell you. A cat is property, injuring a cat is damaging property. I cannot simply this concept anymore for you. I have even quoted part of the contents of one of the links and high lighted the relevant parts. We will have to agree to disagree sadly.

If you have sympathy for the OP then you are not showing it very well. It is almost as if you are one of these oiks who hit cats on a daily basis without a care in the world for their well being or the owners. Yes the police will most likely not do much although a county court will view this situation with the sensitivity and attention it deserves. I wish the OP every success in getting their cat returned to them.

Regardless of what we think, lets acknowledge for a moment how the OP might feel to be without something precious to them. Something taken from them wrongly under the false impression they were not caring for it. Nobody had the right to make this assumption at all.

BluePenguin · 13 Sep 2018

Bertie the bus said:
I may be wrong but my understanding is legally cats aren’t “owned” which is why there is no requirement to report running one over and cat’s “owners” aren’t liable for any damage their pet causes.

You are entirely wrong, they are owned as evidenced. So if you hit a cat it is okay to drive off into the distance and simply leave it lying inured on the road is it? No, absolutely not. The correct thing to do is get out and make sure the cat is okay and to attempt to trace the owner, failing that you must seek medical attention from a vet immediately. The law currently does not state that you must report hitting a cat to the police in the same way as a dog although that does not mean anyone can side step their moral obligations

Dispute over cat "ownership": police say it's a "civil matter"

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