The age potential of a bus?

Eyersey468 · 22 Sep 2018

Our oldest buses (not including the open toppers or heritage fleet) are Plaxton President/Volvo B7TLs dating from 2000 so 18 years old now

RailUK Forums

TRAX · 22 Sep 2018

Eyersey468 said:
One of our buses has only done about 300000 miles and is on its 3rd engine.

Holy pistons, what bus is that ??

Eyersey468 · 22 Sep 2018

TRAX said:
Holy pistons, what bus is that ??

ADL Enviro400. It's been hammered up and down the A63 though

TRAX · 22 Sep 2018

Even then, 300 000 is nothing. Paris Airport buses get hammered at 55 mph on the motorway all the time and get withdrawn after 900 000 km and no major engine modifications.

What engine is in that E400 of yours ?

Shaw S Hunter · 22 Sep 2018

Back in pre-Deregulation days I got an official tour of GMT's Hyde Road works. It was explained to us that buses got a heavy overhaul after 6 years and then at 12 years came in again on a "fix it or get rid" basis. Most vehicles survived this process but generally at 15 years they were liable to be withdrawn from service if sufficient replacement new vehicles were being delivered. That didn't stop vehicles lasting longer and there was no absolute limit. A large operator like GMT had the advantage of using economies of scale when it came to fleet management and could absorb short-term cuts in capital spending as a result. Different times... though the big bus groups of today still have similar principles even if the practical outcomes are different.

Eyersey468 · 22 Sep 2018

TRAX said:
Even then, 300 000 is nothing. Paris Airport buses get hammered at 55 mph on the motorway all the time and get withdrawn after 900 000 km and no major engine modifications.

What engine is in that E400 of yours ?

Cummins as far as I know. I agree 3 engines in 300k is poor though. I think it was a cancelled order as when it came it was in JP Travel livery. One feature of it I never worked out the point of is it has a rear facing CCTV camera, about the only use it is is if someone runs into the back of you.

Gingerbus1991 · 22 Sep 2018

Eyersey468 said:
Cummins as far as I know. I agree 3 engines in 300k is poor though. I think it was a cancelled order as when it came it was in JP Travel livery. One feature of it I never worked out the point of is it has a rear facing CCTV camera, about the only use it is is if someone runs into the back of you.

I agree here, the Cummins ISB engines should be pretty robust, even on motorways for years provided service intervals are kept regularly in check.

Eyersey468 · 22 Sep 2018

Gingerbus1991 said:
I agree here, the Cummins ISB engines should be pretty robust, even on motorways for years provided service intervals are kept regularly in check.

We used to have some Optare Excels that were absolute junk, constantly breaking down and bits falling off. Some of them got re-engined with Cummins engines and it improved mechanical reliability no end. The bodywork was still rubbish though.

Gingerbus1991 · 24 Sep 2018

On the basis of maintencence I assume the likes of a B7/B9TL could have a 20 year old life rather easily?

There is lots of them in my area, there far more comfortable over bumps than the likes of the B5TL and 400MMCs!

They just need a generous refurbishment inside and out!

Eyersey468 · 24 Sep 2018

I don't see why B7TLs and B9TLs couldn't have a 20 year life, our oldest B7s are 18 years old and I'm sure would last a couple more years

route101 · 24 Sep 2018

As for Glasgow the 54 and 07 plate geminis seem solid . The E400s im less convinced , especially the hybrid the ones .

Eyersey468 · 24 Sep 2018

route101 said:
As for Glasgow the 54 and 07 plate geminis seem solid . The E400s im less convinced , especially the hybrid the ones .

Our E400 hybrids were converted to diesel power after about 5-6 years, partly as it was cheaper than replacing the batteries and to improve reliability.

Gingerbus1991 · 24 Sep 2018

route101 said:
As for Glasgow the 54 and 07 plate geminis seem solid . The E400s im less convinced , especially the hybrid the ones .

I can’t see the 2004 buses being retrofitted for the LEZ. Given the time it will be taking effect they’ll be nearing that 20yr old life. I think they have around 20 individual B7’s, a mixture of 06/07 plate versions, if these could have there life stretched to the 20 year limit with a decent refurb and a facelift for the bodywork they could go for around 7/8 maybe 9 years.

Warwick · 24 Sep 2018

CatfordCat said:
It was actually a bit more complicated than that when London Transport was overhauling RT, RF and RM family buses.

The same combination of registration, fleet and chassis number would always* stay together, but that identity would go in at one end of Aldenham and a newly overhauled bus would go out the other end pretty much as soon as the tax disc could be got to it. (At that time, the registration number plates on LT buses consisted of white letter / number transfers applied to a blank plate, so registration number plates were effectively made as part of the overhaul process and did not need to be moved from one bus to another. This did however lead to a few clangers that got out on to the streets before anyone noticed - most famously this one)

Some bus identities were out of circulation as 'works float' for years at a time to cover the legal identity of the kits of parts that were in Aldenham at any time.

The visible brass plate carried the chassis number that matched the log book for that registration number, but these also either got moved from one chassis to another, or new ones were made to match the registration number of the newly overhauled bus. There was a 'secret' chassis unit number on another brass plate, so LT knew what was what.

The body number was applied (to RT and RM group buses) in white transfers, on the inside of the canopy (the driver would be able to see it if s/he looked left, if that makes sense) - RFs must have carried it somewhere but I can't remember where.

While I don't think anyone has ever produced evidence that LT had legal authority to do these identity swaps, but the (then) Ministry must have known about it, and in the early 70s when Aldenham was overhauling buses for London Country, they didn't do identity swaps with them.

The only exception (other than possible flukes) was that buses that had a 'GB plate' having done an overseas tour usually got to retain their original chassis / body / identity - RT 1702 and (I think) one other survive in preservation.

Quite a bit more about it on the Red RF website (written more about RFs but relevant to RT and RM types as well.)

* - before anyone else says it, there were some RFs that got their fleet numbers changed around when converted from bus to Green Line or vice versa, or converted for OMO with the idea that all Green Line RFs ought to be in one block of numbers, or something like that.

Thankyou. That was most interesting.

TheGrandWazoo · 24 Sep 2018

Eyersey468 said:
Our E400 hybrids were converted to diesel power after about 5-6 years, partly as it was cheaper than replacing the batteries and to improve reliability.

Indeed - East Yorkshire were among the first to convert to conventional diesel. First are doing the same in Bath at the moment.

Gingerbus1991 · 24 Sep 2018

TheGrandWazoo said:
Indeed - East Yorkshire were among the first to convert to conventional diesel. First are doing the same in Bath at the moment.

Surprizing how first glasgows have lasted so long without complete failure.

London seems to have many 400h’s, I wonder how time will treat the CITY body variants down south, hopefully bae systems have managed a more reliability system on those new ones

route101 · 25 Sep 2018

Gingerbus1991 said:
I can’t see the 2004 buses being retrofitted for the LEZ. Given the time it will be taking effect they’ll be nearing that 20yr old life. I think they have around 20 individual B7’s, a mixture of 06/07 plate versions, if these could have there life stretched to the 20 year limit with a decent refurb and a facelift for the bodywork they could go for around 7/8 maybe 9 years.

I doubt the Tridents will make 20 years !

Gingerbus1991 · 25 Sep 2018

route101 said:
I doubt the Tridents will make 20 years !

I did had the privilage of driving lothians tridents and these felt solid!

Eyersey468 · 25 Sep 2018

Gingerbus1991 said:
I did had the privilage of driving lothians tridents and these felt solid!

We bought a couple of open top Tridents from Lothian last year and the one I have driven feels pretty solid. I'd heard reports of Tridents feeling like a beached whale to drive but this one is quite good.

GusB · 26 Sep 2018

Do Lothian look after their buses better? I'm only going from what I can see in photographs posted by those I follow on Flickr, but it would seem that many former Lothian Olympians (of Leyland and Volvo varieties) have gone on to lead long lives.

90sWereBetter · 26 Sep 2018

route101 said:
I doubt the Tridents will make 20 years !

You say that, but First South West still have a few T-reg Tridents in service at Bridgewater which are only a few months away from their 20th birthday. Kernow only just got rid of their last Euro 2 Tridents as well.

Long-wheelbase S, T, V and X-reg Tridents from Stagecoach London are a popular buy for school work, can easily see a load of these making the new decade.

route101 · 26 Sep 2018

Gingerbus1991 said:
Surprizing how first glasgows have lasted so long without complete failure.

London seems to have many 400h’s, I wonder how time will treat the CITY body variants down south, hopefully bae systems have managed a more reliability system on those new ones

The amount of times the E400H on the 6 that i see broken down ! Suprised they dont want to get rid of them

Eyersey468 · 26 Sep 2018

route101 said:
The amount of times the E400H on the 6 that i see broken down ! Suprised they dont want to get rid of them

We tried to get rid of ours before they were converted but nobody wanted to buy them

Gingerbus1991 · 26 Sep 2018

route101 said:
The amount of times the E400H on the 6 that i see broken down ! Suprised they dont want to get rid of them

Volvo B5LH hybrids appear to be more reliable

Jordan Adam · 26 Sep 2018

route101 said:
I doubt the Tridents will make 20 years !

The first load of Trident2's turned 20 this year...

Tridents are hit and miss. It's really down to exact specification. The Euro 2 Ex-London Presidents that First have/had are buckets. But the Euro 3 examples seem pretty decent. Either way the President body is quite a flimsy build, most leak like sieves. The ALX400 is a really solid unit though. Stagecoach here have a pair of VU06 ALX400s, both put the rest of the fleet to shame and they're on high speed rural work!

GusB said:
Do Lothian look after their buses better? I'm only going from what I can see in photographs posted by those I follow on Flickr, but it would seem that many former Lothian Olympians (of Leyland and Volvo varieties) have gone on to lead long lives.

I wouldn't say they maintain buses better than anyone else, but they seem to care about the appearance of their fleet a bit more than others (If you exclude some of the older B7RLEs which look pretty shabby).

Gingerbus1991 · 26 Sep 2018

Jordan Adam said:
The first load of Trident2's turned 20 this year...

Tridents are hit and miss. It's really down to exact specification. The Euro 2 Ex-London Presidents that First have/had are buckets. But the Euro 3 examples seem pretty decent. Either way the President body is quite a flimsy build, most leak like sieves. The ALX400 is a really solid unit though. Stagecoach here have a pair of VU06 ALX400s, both put the rest of the fleet to shame and they're on high speed rural work!

I wouldn't say they maintain buses better than anyone else, but they seem to care about the appearance of their fleet a bit more than others (If you exclude some of the older B7RLEs which look pretty shabby).

Lothians presidents could blast firsts ones out of the water, stagecoach buses as well are usually plagued with ABS and emission lights on where as lothian keep on top of them issues, all these are part of that maintenence program im on about.

Jordan Adam · 26 Sep 2018

Gingerbus1991 said:
Lothians presidents could blast firsts ones out of the water, stagecoach buses as well are usually plagued with ABS and emission lights on where as lothian keep on top of them issues, all these are part of that maintenence program im on about.

Hahaha, i laughed a little there... First's Euro 3 Presidents blast everything in the Lothian fleet with ease.

Gingerbus1991 · 26 Sep 2018

Jordan Adam said:
Hahaha, i laughed a little there... First's Euro 3 Presidents blast everything in the Lothian fleet with ease.

Drove first glaasgows tridents on the 88’s about 8/9 years ago and comparing them to lothians long wheel base versions it was like night and day, donkey and stallion, black and white!

In the summer overheating was an issue, not so much I found with lothians

Jordan Adam · 26 Sep 2018

Gingerbus1991 said:
Drove first glaasgows tridents on the 88’s about 8/9 years ago and comparing them to lothians long wheel base versions it was like night and day, donkey and stallion, black and white!

Those will most likely have been Euro 2 variants which were well... Crap!

At the end of the day a Stagecoach spec Euro 3 ALX400 with Voith beats them all.

Gingerbus1991 · 26 Sep 2018

Jordan Adam said:
Those will most likely have been Euro 2 variants which were well... Crap!

At the end of the day a Stagecoach spec Euro 3 ALX400 with Voith beats them all.

Maybe in the days when the the ALX400 was new i’d have seen that, in this case ive never driven one thats been newer than say 12 years old, stagecoach, dunfermline had two 55 plate versions with the ISC 8.3 engine which felt breathless with no torque uphill or even on the flat, id probably put that down to poor engineering on stage’s part.

Voith gearboxes in decker or older single has never been my bug bear, but it certainly is when there fitted to streetlites or 200 mmcs, incredibly jerky and gear hunting like mad, the latest ZF ecolifes have became the far superior modern trans

The age potential of a bus?

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